[Lnc-business] Convention Oversight Committee Housekeeping

Fri Jun 30 07:45:12 EDT 2017

Does someone have a motion to submit yet?  All the co-sponsors seem to
be in line at this time.

Sam

Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
Member at Large
8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
Indianapolis IN 46260
317-850-0726 Phone
317-582-1773 Fax

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 9:24 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Not in favour of having it potentially be all LNC.  And the feedback I
> have from Region 1 (only a couple comments to be sure - those who read this
> list) very clearly told me that they do not wish for the LNC to have the
> option to be more LNC.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> When this rule was created, we thought we needed 4.  Now we think we need
>> 5.  My language allows some flexibility for future LNCs to decide how many
>> they need without having to amend the policy, so long as it maintains the
>> minimum number of LNC members.
>>
>> -Alicia
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Also, why allow 6 or 7 when we only need 5? I think we need some carve
>>> out for non LNC participation, so long as a majority is maintained.
>>> On Jun 29, 2017 11:39 AM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's fine with me, I just think there's little reason not to, for now
>>>> at least, use the narrowest solution.
>>>> On Jun 29, 2017 11:36 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> What about the language Alicia presented?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the simplest idea might be best. Just make it 5 lnc, 3 non. If
>>>>> we or a later lnc want to change it back, we will. That addresses all
>>>>> concerns I've seen, I think. I'd cosponsor something to that effect, once I
>>>>> see the language.
>>>>> On Jun 29, 2017 11:28 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alicia,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your points are well taken as are Joshua's.  I had thought of many of
>>>>>> the concerns raised but until it gets out there for everyone to kick the
>>>>>> tires on, you just don't know how people will respond.  I think dividing
>>>>>> the question is probably the way to go.  We haven't heard a big out cry one
>>>>>> way or the other. So let me dig something up here and let it rip.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know that the COC will be taking earth-shattering votes on
>>>>>> July 3rd.  Maybe there's something bigger on the horizon than I'm thinking,
>>>>>> but I think we'd be okay even if Erin were only technically participating
>>>>>> as a volunteer for that one meeting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with Alicia's responses above and am OK with her proposed
>>>>>>> change to the
>>>>>>> policy manual.  This is a matter of some urgency since the next COC
>>>>>>> meeting be
>>>>>>> on July 3rd.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alicia makes very good points.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems to really matter in some committees and not as critical in
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 6:09 PM Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not in favor of a general rule which says that once an
>>>>>>>>> appointment is made, it is good for the duration of the term even if
>>>>>>>>> eligibility changes in the meantime.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Consider the Employment Policy and Compensation Committee.  Our
>>>>>>>>> policy makes the LNC Chair ineligible to serve.  Suppose a Chair is hit by
>>>>>>>>> the proverbial bus.  Suppose the person chosen to fill the Chair vacancy
>>>>>>>>> was previously appointed to the EPCC.  Having the Chair (staff supervisor)
>>>>>>>>> serve on the EPCC could be a problem.  Suppose the new Chair asks staff to
>>>>>>>>> violate some policies.  The EPCC is the entity that the staff should
>>>>>>>>> contact in such a situation, but now their boss is on the EPCC, so they're
>>>>>>>>> not going to do that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Consider the Executive Committee.  The 4 officers are ex-officio
>>>>>>>>> members of the ExComm.  Suppose an officer resigns.  Do we want that person
>>>>>>>>> to continue to serve on the ExComm, though they're no longer on the LNC?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are probably other examples as well that could be
>>>>>>>>> problematic.  Let's just address the situation at hand and not monkey with
>>>>>>>>> the system further.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:53 AM, David Demarest <
>>>>>>>>> dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From a common sense perspective, I will support the proposal for
>>>>>>>>>> adding a provision that a subsequent LNC status change would not affect a
>>>>>>>>>> prior Committee appointment for the duration of the committee appointment
>>>>>>>>>> term.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017 1:40 PM, "Joshua Katz" <
>>>>>>>>>> planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a particular reason we couldn't fix it this way, by
>>>>>>>>>>> email?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, the reason for not waiting till August is we will
>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly be having some very substantive votes before the August LNC
>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting and I would rather have the full COC able to legally vote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I would be in favour of that.  Often times person who will end
>>>>>>>>>>>> up filling LNC vacancies are those involved already somewhere and showing
>>>>>>>>>>>> leadership.  I don't think we should be removing those people from
>>>>>>>>>>>> consideration to fill a remaining term or making the other committees
>>>>>>>>>>>> suffer.  The spirit of the rule is to make a good faith to diversify
>>>>>>>>>>>> positions, but having a crystal ball shouldn't be part of it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So I would support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was actually considering broaching that change for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting in Kansas City.  I think we should add a provision that if you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a committee and your status changes by becoming LNC or Alternate or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other such shift like being one of the regional reps on the ASC and you end
>>>>>>>>>>>>> up appointed as in an At Large position, you maintain your position on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> committee for the duration of that term.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer the second.  And wouldn't there be a different
>>>>>>>>>>>>> threshold?  If we are going to over-ride the policy manual  - we do it the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> right way by editing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think perhaps this brings up something that might need to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a permanent change - when people end up on the LNC but were not when they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were appointed.  I would be amenable to looking at something on that route
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We find ourselves with a bit a problem that needs fixing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The policy manual defines the Convention Oversight Committee as follows:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Four LNC Members or Alternates, plus 3 non-LNC members who are recommended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the Convention Oversight Committee"  "LNC members selected by the LNC,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-LNC members selected by the LNC Chair".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams has moved from being a non-LNC member to being a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC Alternate.  I have two alternatives on how to do it.  I highly value
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Erin's work ethic and contribution to the COC and wish to keep her as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full voting member of the committee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, we could just do the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Move to ratify Erin Adams, Whitney Bilyeu, William Brackeen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein, Daniel Hayes, Alicia Mattson, and BetteRose Ryan as members
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the Convention Oversight Committee for the current term, notwithstanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any rules in the LNC Policy Manual."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I included all the names because if we ratified one person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but not the others, that might create some other problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This following option is a bit messier but more certain:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Move to amend the chart in the LNC policy manual section
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.03 to define the size of the Convention Oversight Committee as,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Seven members composed of up to five LNC Members or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternates, plus up to three non-LNC members who are recommended by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Convention Oversight Committee.';
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sunset upon expiration of the current COC term and to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ratify Erin Adams' position as a member of the Convention Oversight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Committee."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My reason for the "up to" language is because life has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> funny way of throwing us twists.  IF for some reason a LNC member of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> COC were to vacate their seat before the end of their term, I would expect
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us to restore the composition to 4 LNC and 3 non LNC members of the COC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The sunset is there to restore the original intent once this term is over.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not seeking co-sponsors for either motion yet, as I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> checking a sense of the body to see which route we prefer to use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC COC Vice-Chair
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> *We defend your rights*
> *And oppose the use of force*
> *Taxation is theft*
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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