[Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF

Mon Oct 23 22:40:32 EDT 2017

I don't think the conversation is about our personal disgust.  I doubt
there is anyone here who doesn't feel the same.  I have actually argued
that LP Libertarianism is actually "thick" on that score - we reprove all
bigotry whether it involves force or not.

This isn't about our personal disgust.  It is about what the LNC can and
should do as the LNC.

In my personal capacity I express such disgust routinely.

But I'm not going down the road of LNC policing.  Oregon was the motivation
for me to go down this path of national leadership.  I ran on a promise of
not expanding LNC control over affiliates.

We can personally support Paul.  But that was sent to us as an LNC body and
I have NO mandate from Region 1 to interfere in Florida.  And none of the
Region 1 states want the LNC in their business either.

We can and should clearly and forcefully state our position.  And if
someone has the desire to move to disaffiliate- do so.  But us talking
about what "else" we can do as the LNC above our role is not appropriate.

We can encourage our state affiliates to take a stand.  CO loves to put out
resolutions- they might here.

We can put out statements,  But our ONLY disciplinary route with Florida is
disaffiliation.

-Caryn Ann

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:30 PM David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
wrote:

> Caryn Ann, thank you for sharing your disgust with bigotry.
>
>
>
> Economic and social ostracism responses to bigotry are appropriate from
> all of us, both as individual Libertarians and as members of Libertarian
> institutions. It may be a Florida problem but that will not stop me as a
> Nebraskan from expressing my disgust with anything related to
> supremacy-driven behavior.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> ~David Pratt
>
>
>
> *May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom Un-Convention*
>
>
>
> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less*
>
>
>
> ~David Pratt Demarest
>
> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder
>
> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>
> LSLA Vice-Chair
>
> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>
> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>
> David.Demarest at LP.org
>
> Secretary at LPNE.org
>
> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>
> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>
> Cell:      402-981-6469
>
> Home: 402-493-0873
>
>
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
> *Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2017 9:08 PM
> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> *Cc:* lnc-business <lnc-business at lp.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF
>
>
>
> Our only recourse is disaffiliation.
>
>
>
> And obviously I think such claims if true to be a gross violation of the
> SoP.
>
>
>
> I also think promoting any continuation of state force is and we can find
> examples of that if we wish to being promoted within state parties.
>
>
>
> I'm not eager to go down that road.
>
>
>
> Which is the same answer I gave people who wanted us to "do something"
> about our last ticket.
>
>
>
> I find white nationalism to be completely unacceptable and cheered at Wes'
> invitation for them to leave.  Note it did not contain any threat to throw
> them out or discipline them because *that is not our role*
>
>
>
> Every action above the bounds starts with good intentions.  Good
> intentions gave us the welfare state.  I do not want nor are we entitled to
> be, consolidating power in the LNC no matter what "good" thing might come
> of one action.
>
>
>
> The national party consistently putting out consistent principles
> foundational libertarianism and eschewing both a drift to the right and to
> the left is what we can and should do.
>
>
>
> The white nationalists hate me for a reason - I think ethnomasochist is
> their preferred term for me- but that does not justify us patenting an
> affiliate.
>
>
>
>
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 7:59 PM Erin Adams <
> erinadams at thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> IF there is "merit" to these claims, would not article 5 section 4 of the
> bylaws come into question? Are we REALLY saying that if this is true,
> promoting an agenda of hate or allowing the promotion of such is in line
> with the Statement of Principles or the Bylaws? I just dont see it that way
>
>
> In Liberty,
> Erin Adams
> Director of Fundraising and Events
>
> The Feldman Foundation
> (405) 780-2791
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Oh yes because the LNC interfering in the autonomy of an affiliate worked
> out SO WELL in the past.
>
>
>
> I'm not eager to repeat Oregon.
>
>
>
> And Florida has a representative.  He was elected to deal with the
> concerns of that region and responded.
>
>
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM Erin Adams <
> erinadams at thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> I tend to agree with Mr. Katz on this.
>
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2017 7:40 PM, "Joshua Katz" <joshua.katz at lp.org> wrote:
>
> The original email in this thread was from Mr. Stanton (whom I've never
> met).  He accused a member of the LPF leadership, who is also a Libertarian
> candidate (and whom I have also never met) of being a white supremacist
> leader, and of making threats towards himself and others.  I have no way of
> knowing if these accusations are true, but they most certainly are
> disturbing if true - and the sorts of things I would expect the affiliate
> to react to.  If they are true and the affiliate does not react, I would
> expect this board to take action.
>
>
>
> Instead, the responses I've seen seem to combine shrugs with exhortations
> that Mr. Stanton should deal with it himself, and some variation on "hey,
> we're all on the same team, work together."  Again, I do not know if the
> accusations are true, but if they are, then we are not, in fact, all on the
> same team.  I am not on the same team as any white supremacist, or anyone
> who thinks the use of threats and intimidation, together with violent white
> supremacist and anti-semitic rhetoric, are acceptable ways of conducting
> business.
>
>
>
> Such a pre-modern retreat to tribalism, to prejudice, to
> anti-individualism, is the single largest threat to human freedom.  It is
> the condition in which humans lived for quite some time, before
> civilization made real freedom possible.  No party that stands for freedom
> against all threats can tolerate those in its midst who would hold those
> positions, let alone allowing those who advocate such positions to hold
> leadership positions.  This cannot be a party that tolerates such things.
> At the moment, I have no actual facts.  Furthermore, there is little we can
> do - but little is not the same as nothing.  Let's get the facts.  The
> response to such a statement cannot be "well, you figure it out."  That is
> not leadership.  Nor should the response be immediate panic, or a rush to
> judgment.  I would think the accusations are of such a nature, though, that
> we'd want to know what is going on.
>
>
> Joshua A. Katz
>
>
>
> At-Large Representative,
>
> Libertarian National Committee
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 8:54 PM, Paul Stanton <region7 at lpf.org> wrote:
>
> Marcos,
>
>
>
> Due to the LPF Executive Committee's recent refusal to respond to threats
> targeting myself and others from Ryan Ramsey, a white supremacist leader,
> LPF county chair, LPF EC member, and candidate for Florida House, I hereby
> resign from all positions and membership within the Libertarian Party of
> Florida, as I can no longer in good faith continue to ask other
> Libertarians to support a party which allows its leaders to threaten and
> intimidate members while repeating violent white supremacist and
> anti-semitic rhetoric.
>
>
>
> Libertarians deserve better than the Libertarian Party of Florida.
>
>
>
> Please remove me from any mailing or membership lists and add me to the
> LPF's do not call list. I will not be responding to any email sent to this
> address.
>
>
>
> In liberty,
> *Paul Stanton*
>
>
> Follow me on Facebook: fb.com/Stanton4Liberty
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>
>
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>
> *We defend your rights*
>
> *And oppose the use of force*
>
> *Taxation is theft*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
> --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>
>
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>
> *We defend your rights*
>
> *And oppose the use of force*
>
> *Taxation is theft*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
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