[Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF

Mon Oct 23 23:15:37 EDT 2017

Have you asked Steve for his view Josh?  Seems to me that is the first
step.  Speaking for myself, I would feel pretty disrespected if everyone
starting talking about one of my states without actively speaking with me.

-Caryn Ann

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:13 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
wrote:

> That did not seem to be what Josh was calling for.  We should always be
> zealous to uphold the Statement of Principles which is - pursuant to our
> Bylaws, the sole reason we exist.
>
>
> And I would say - Wes message was not effective for what?  Stating our
> position?  It certainly was.  Are any of these people National Party
> members who did not leave?  Or are they just state affiliate members?
>
> I would hope, additionally, that we would resoect the fact that such
> Region elected a representative and it is not us.
>
> I see very little of asking him for his evaluation and thoughts and he is
> the one closest to the situation.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:05 PM Erin Adams <
> erinadams at thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> And Since those Bylaws allow for us  to insist that the affiliate comport
>> with the Statement of Principles or face disaffiliation, maybe it would be
>> worth investigating the accusation and then doing just that if this is
>> factual. If the allegations levied are indeed true, It leads me to believe
>> that actions like Wes' invitation for them to leave are not as effective as
>> one would hope
>>
>> In Liberty,
>> Erin Adams
>> Director of Fundraising and Events
>> The Feldman Foundation
>> (405) 780-2791
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Please point out where I advocated silence.
>>>
>>> I specifically stated that we should clearly and boldly state our
>>> positions.  That is not silence.
>>>
>>> But we have no other control over Florida than that or to disaffiliate.
>>> That is within the bounds of the voluntary association we signed up for.
>>> Our personal disgust does not give us authority to go beyond our Bylaws.
>>>
>>> We shall not interfere with the autonomy of an affiliate except as
>>> provided by those Bylaws which makes no provision for dictating their
>>> leadership or their message other than to insist it comport with the
>>> Statement of Principles or face disaffiliation.  Both parties in this
>>> marriage are free to divorce.  If an affiliate was proven to be corrupt
>>> with white nationalism, that may indeed be appropriate.
>>>
>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:50 PM Erin Adams <
>>> erinadams at thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are a lot of if's here, agreed. If this can be proven , if the
>>>> affiliate allows and or supports this........ If those things are true, and
>>>> we stay silent, that makes us complicit. That is not an action I will
>>>> voluntary associate with. Complicit support of bigotry isnt a path Ill join
>>>> anyone on. Not today, not ever. Thats just me.
>>>>
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Erin Adams
>>>> Director of Fundraising and Events
>>>> The Feldman Foundation
>>>> (405) 780-2791
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:40 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the conversation is about our personal disgust.  I doubt
>>>>> there is anyone here who doesn't feel the same.  I have actually argued
>>>>> that LP Libertarianism is actually "thick" on that score - we reprove all
>>>>> bigotry whether it involves force or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> This isn't about our personal disgust.  It is about what the LNC can
>>>>> and should do as the LNC.
>>>>>
>>>>> In my personal capacity I express such disgust routinely.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I'm not going down the road of LNC policing.  Oregon was the
>>>>> motivation for me to go down this path of national leadership.  I ran on a
>>>>> promise of not expanding LNC control over affiliates.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can personally support Paul.  But that was sent to us as an LNC
>>>>> body and I have NO mandate from Region 1 to interfere in Florida.  And none
>>>>> of the Region 1 states want the LNC in their business either.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can and should clearly and forcefully state our position.  And if
>>>>> someone has the desire to move to disaffiliate- do so.  But us talking
>>>>> about what "else" we can do as the LNC above our role is not appropriate.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can encourage our state affiliates to take a stand.  CO loves to
>>>>> put out resolutions- they might here.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can put out statements,  But our ONLY disciplinary route with
>>>>> Florida is disaffiliation.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:30 PM David Demarest <
>>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Caryn Ann, thank you for sharing your disgust with bigotry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Economic and social ostracism responses to bigotry are appropriate
>>>>>> from all of us, both as individual Libertarians and as members of
>>>>>> Libertarian institutions. It may be a Florida problem but that will not
>>>>>> stop me as a Nebraskan from expressing my disgust with anything related to
>>>>>> supremacy-driven behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~David Pratt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom Un-Convention*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>>> Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2017 9:08 PM
>>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> *Cc:* lnc-business <lnc-business at lp.org>
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our only recourse is disaffiliation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And obviously I think such claims if true to be a gross violation of
>>>>>> the SoP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think promoting any continuation of state force is and we can
>>>>>> find examples of that if we wish to being promoted within state parties.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not eager to go down that road.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which is the same answer I gave people who wanted us to "do
>>>>>> something" about our last ticket.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find white nationalism to be completely unacceptable and cheered at
>>>>>> Wes' invitation for them to leave.  Note it did not contain any threat to
>>>>>> throw them out or discipline them because *that is not our role*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every action above the bounds starts with good intentions.  Good
>>>>>> intentions gave us the welfare state.  I do not want nor are we entitled to
>>>>>> be, consolidating power in the LNC no matter what "good" thing might come
>>>>>> of one action.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The national party consistently putting out consistent principles
>>>>>> foundational libertarianism and eschewing both a drift to the right and to
>>>>>> the left is what we can and should do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The white nationalists hate me for a reason - I think ethnomasochist
>>>>>> is their preferred term for me- but that does not justify us patenting an
>>>>>> affiliate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 7:59 PM Erin Adams <
>>>>>> erinadams at thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IF there is "merit" to these claims, would not article 5 section 4 of
>>>>>> the bylaws come into question? Are we REALLY saying that if this is true,
>>>>>> promoting an agenda of hate or allowing the promotion of such is in line
>>>>>> with the Statement of Principles or the Bylaws? I just dont see it that way
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>> Erin Adams
>>>>>> Director of Fundraising and Events
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Feldman Foundation
>>>>>> (405) 780-2791
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yes because the LNC interfering in the autonomy of an affiliate
>>>>>> worked out SO WELL in the past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not eager to repeat Oregon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And Florida has a representative.  He was elected to deal with the
>>>>>> concerns of that region and responded.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM Erin Adams <
>>>>>> erinadams at thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tend to agree with Mr. Katz on this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2017 7:40 PM, "Joshua Katz" <joshua.katz at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The original email in this thread was from Mr. Stanton (whom I've
>>>>>> never met).  He accused a member of the LPF leadership, who is also a
>>>>>> Libertarian candidate (and whom I have also never met) of being a white
>>>>>> supremacist leader, and of making threats towards himself and others.  I
>>>>>> have no way of knowing if these accusations are true, but they most
>>>>>> certainly are disturbing if true - and the sorts of things I would expect
>>>>>> the affiliate to react to.  If they are true and the affiliate does not
>>>>>> react, I would expect this board to take action.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Instead, the responses I've seen seem to combine shrugs with
>>>>>> exhortations that Mr. Stanton should deal with it himself, and some
>>>>>> variation on "hey, we're all on the same team, work together."  Again, I do
>>>>>> not know if the accusations are true, but if they are, then we are not, in
>>>>>> fact, all on the same team.  I am not on the same team as any white
>>>>>> supremacist, or anyone who thinks the use of threats and intimidation,
>>>>>> together with violent white supremacist and anti-semitic rhetoric, are
>>>>>> acceptable ways of conducting business.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Such a pre-modern retreat to tribalism, to prejudice, to
>>>>>> anti-individualism, is the single largest threat to human freedom.  It is
>>>>>> the condition in which humans lived for quite some time, before
>>>>>> civilization made real freedom possible.  No party that stands for freedom
>>>>>> against all threats can tolerate those in its midst who would hold those
>>>>>> positions, let alone allowing those who advocate such positions to hold
>>>>>> leadership positions.  This cannot be a party that tolerates such things.
>>>>>> At the moment, I have no actual facts.  Furthermore, there is little we can
>>>>>> do - but little is not the same as nothing.  Let's get the facts.  The
>>>>>> response to such a statement cannot be "well, you figure it out."  That is
>>>>>> not leadership.  Nor should the response be immediate panic, or a rush to
>>>>>> judgment.  I would think the accusations are of such a nature, though, that
>>>>>> we'd want to know what is going on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At-Large Representative,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 8:54 PM, Paul Stanton <region7 at lpf.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marcos,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Due to the LPF Executive Committee's recent refusal to respond to
>>>>>> threats targeting myself and others from Ryan Ramsey, a white supremacist
>>>>>> leader, LPF county chair, LPF EC member, and candidate for Florida House, I
>>>>>> hereby resign from all positions and membership within the Libertarian
>>>>>> Party of Florida, as I can no longer in good faith continue to ask other
>>>>>> Libertarians to support a party which allows its leaders to threaten and
>>>>>> intimidate members while repeating violent white supremacist and
>>>>>> anti-semitic rhetoric.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Libertarians deserve better than the Libertarian Party of Florida.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please remove me from any mailing or membership lists and add me
>>>>>> to the LPF's do not call list. I will not be responding to any email sent
>>>>>> to this address.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In liberty,
>>>>>> *Paul Stanton*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow me on Facebook: fb.com/Stanton4Liberty
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>> --
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> *We defend your rights*
>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> *We defend your rights*
> *And oppose the use of force*
> *Taxation is theft*
>
>
>
>
> --
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
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