[Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF

Mon Oct 23 23:21:14 EDT 2017

The regional rep is Ed.  I called him, several months ago, and asked what
was going on.  I will ask him again.  I am not setting myself up as sole,
or even main, determiner of facts, though, so I don't think it's enough for
the regional rep to tell me what he sees.

Steve gave his view by email earlier today.  I sent him a follow-up email
directly.

Joshua A. Katz

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 10:15 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Have you asked Steve for his view Josh?  Seems to me that is the first
> step.  Speaking for myself, I would feel pretty disrespected if everyone
> starting talking about one of my states without actively speaking with me.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:13 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> That did not seem to be what Josh was calling for.  We should always be
>> zealous to uphold the Statement of Principles which is - pursuant to our
>> Bylaws, the sole reason we exist.
>>
>>
>> And I would say - Wes message was not effective for what?  Stating our
>> position?  It certainly was.  Are any of these people National Party
>> members who did not leave?  Or are they just state affiliate members?
>>
>> I would hope, additionally, that we would resoect the fact that such
>> Region elected a representative and it is not us.
>>
>> I see very little of asking him for his evaluation and thoughts and he is
>> the one closest to the situation.
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:05 PM Erin Adams <erinadams@
>> thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> And Since those Bylaws allow for us  to insist that the affiliate
>>> comport with the Statement of Principles or face disaffiliation, maybe it
>>> would be worth investigating the accusation and then doing just that if
>>> this is factual. If the allegations levied are indeed true, It leads me to
>>> believe that actions like Wes' invitation for them to leave are not as
>>> effective as one would hope
>>>
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Erin Adams
>>> Director of Fundraising and Events
>>> The Feldman Foundation
>>> (405) 780-2791
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please point out where I advocated silence.
>>>>
>>>> I specifically stated that we should clearly and boldly state our
>>>> positions.  That is not silence.
>>>>
>>>> But we have no other control over Florida than that or to
>>>> disaffiliate.  That is within the bounds of the voluntary association we
>>>> signed up for.  Our personal disgust does not give us authority to go
>>>> beyond our Bylaws.
>>>>
>>>> We shall not interfere with the autonomy of an affiliate except as
>>>> provided by those Bylaws which makes no provision for dictating their
>>>> leadership or their message other than to insist it comport with the
>>>> Statement of Principles or face disaffiliation.  Both parties in this
>>>> marriage are free to divorce.  If an affiliate was proven to be corrupt
>>>> with white nationalism, that may indeed be appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:50 PM Erin Adams <erinadams@
>>>> thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There are a lot of if's here, agreed. If this can be proven , if the
>>>>> affiliate allows and or supports this........ If those things are true, and
>>>>> we stay silent, that makes us complicit. That is not an action I will
>>>>> voluntary associate with. Complicit support of bigotry isnt a path Ill join
>>>>> anyone on. Not today, not ever. Thats just me.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Erin Adams
>>>>> Director of Fundraising and Events
>>>>> The Feldman Foundation
>>>>> (405) 780-2791
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:40 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the conversation is about our personal disgust.  I
>>>>>> doubt there is anyone here who doesn't feel the same.  I have actually
>>>>>> argued that LP Libertarianism is actually "thick" on that score - we
>>>>>> reprove all bigotry whether it involves force or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This isn't about our personal disgust.  It is about what the LNC can
>>>>>> and should do as the LNC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my personal capacity I express such disgust routinely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I'm not going down the road of LNC policing.  Oregon was the
>>>>>> motivation for me to go down this path of national leadership.  I ran on a
>>>>>> promise of not expanding LNC control over affiliates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can personally support Paul.  But that was sent to us as an LNC
>>>>>> body and I have NO mandate from Region 1 to interfere in Florida.  And none
>>>>>> of the Region 1 states want the LNC in their business either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can and should clearly and forcefully state our position.  And if
>>>>>> someone has the desire to move to disaffiliate- do so.  But us talking
>>>>>> about what "else" we can do as the LNC above our role is not appropriate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can encourage our state affiliates to take a stand.  CO loves to
>>>>>> put out resolutions- they might here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can put out statements,  But our ONLY disciplinary route with
>>>>>> Florida is disaffiliation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:30 PM David Demarest <
>>>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Caryn Ann, thank you for sharing your disgust with bigotry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Economic and social ostracism responses to bigotry are appropriate
>>>>>>> from all of us, both as individual Libertarians and as members of
>>>>>>> Libertarian institutions. It may be a Florida problem but that will not
>>>>>>> stop me as a Nebraskan from expressing my disgust with anything related to
>>>>>>> supremacy-driven behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~David Pratt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom Un-Convention*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2017 9:08 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> *Cc:* lnc-business <lnc-business at lp.org>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our only recourse is disaffiliation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And obviously I think such claims if true to be a gross violation of
>>>>>>> the SoP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also think promoting any continuation of state force is and we can
>>>>>>> find examples of that if we wish to being promoted within state parties.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not eager to go down that road.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which is the same answer I gave people who wanted us to "do
>>>>>>> something" about our last ticket.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find white nationalism to be completely unacceptable and cheered
>>>>>>> at Wes' invitation for them to leave.  Note it did not contain any threat
>>>>>>> to throw them out or discipline them because *that is not our role*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every action above the bounds starts with good intentions.  Good
>>>>>>> intentions gave us the welfare state.  I do not want nor are we entitled to
>>>>>>> be, consolidating power in the LNC no matter what "good" thing might come
>>>>>>> of one action.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The national party consistently putting out consistent principles
>>>>>>> foundational libertarianism and eschewing both a drift to the right and to
>>>>>>> the left is what we can and should do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The white nationalists hate me for a reason - I think ethnomasochist
>>>>>>> is their preferred term for me- but that does not justify us patenting an
>>>>>>> affiliate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 7:59 PM Erin Adams <erinadams@
>>>>>>> thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IF there is "merit" to these claims, would not article 5 section 4
>>>>>>> of the bylaws come into question? Are we REALLY saying that if this is
>>>>>>> true, promoting an agenda of hate or allowing the promotion of such is in
>>>>>>> line with the Statement of Principles or the Bylaws? I just dont see it
>>>>>>> that way
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>>> Erin Adams
>>>>>>> Director of Fundraising and Events
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Feldman Foundation
>>>>>>> (405) 780-2791
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh yes because the LNC interfering in the autonomy of an affiliate
>>>>>>> worked out SO WELL in the past.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not eager to repeat Oregon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And Florida has a representative.  He was elected to deal with the
>>>>>>> concerns of that region and responded.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM Erin Adams <erinadams@
>>>>>>> thefeldmanfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I tend to agree with Mr. Katz on this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 23, 2017 7:40 PM, "Joshua Katz" <joshua.katz at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The original email in this thread was from Mr. Stanton (whom I've
>>>>>>> never met).  He accused a member of the LPF leadership, who is also a
>>>>>>> Libertarian candidate (and whom I have also never met) of being a white
>>>>>>> supremacist leader, and of making threats towards himself and others.  I
>>>>>>> have no way of knowing if these accusations are true, but they most
>>>>>>> certainly are disturbing if true - and the sorts of things I would expect
>>>>>>> the affiliate to react to.  If they are true and the affiliate does not
>>>>>>> react, I would expect this board to take action.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Instead, the responses I've seen seem to combine shrugs with
>>>>>>> exhortations that Mr. Stanton should deal with it himself, and some
>>>>>>> variation on "hey, we're all on the same team, work together."  Again, I do
>>>>>>> not know if the accusations are true, but if they are, then we are not, in
>>>>>>> fact, all on the same team.  I am not on the same team as any white
>>>>>>> supremacist, or anyone who thinks the use of threats and intimidation,
>>>>>>> together with violent white supremacist and anti-semitic rhetoric, are
>>>>>>> acceptable ways of conducting business.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Such a pre-modern retreat to tribalism, to prejudice, to
>>>>>>> anti-individualism, is the single largest threat to human freedom.  It is
>>>>>>> the condition in which humans lived for quite some time, before
>>>>>>> civilization made real freedom possible.  No party that stands for freedom
>>>>>>> against all threats can tolerate those in its midst who would hold those
>>>>>>> positions, let alone allowing those who advocate such positions to hold
>>>>>>> leadership positions.  This cannot be a party that tolerates such things.
>>>>>>> At the moment, I have no actual facts.  Furthermore, there is little we can
>>>>>>> do - but little is not the same as nothing.  Let's get the facts.  The
>>>>>>> response to such a statement cannot be "well, you figure it out."  That is
>>>>>>> not leadership.  Nor should the response be immediate panic, or a rush to
>>>>>>> judgment.  I would think the accusations are of such a nature, though, that
>>>>>>> we'd want to know what is going on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At-Large Representative,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 8:54 PM, Paul Stanton <region7 at lpf.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marcos,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Due to the LPF Executive Committee's recent refusal to respond to
>>>>>>> threats targeting myself and others from Ryan Ramsey, a white supremacist
>>>>>>> leader, LPF county chair, LPF EC member, and candidate for Florida House, I
>>>>>>> hereby resign from all positions and membership within the Libertarian
>>>>>>> Party of Florida, as I can no longer in good faith continue to ask other
>>>>>>> Libertarians to support a party which allows its leaders to threaten and
>>>>>>> intimidate members while repeating violent white supremacist and
>>>>>>> anti-semitic rhetoric.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Libertarians deserve better than the Libertarian Party of Florida.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please remove me from any mailing or membership lists and add me
>>>>>>> to the LPF's do not call list. I will not be responding to any email sent
>>>>>>> to this address.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In liberty,
>>>>>>> *Paul Stanton*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Follow me on Facebook: fb.com/Stanton4Liberty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>
>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> *We defend your rights*
>> *And oppose the use of force*
>> *Taxation is theft*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> *We defend your rights*
> *And oppose the use of force*
> *Taxation is theft*
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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