[Lnc-business] Fwd: [Lnc-votes] Resignation From LPF

[David Demarest]

I would add that violence, bigotry and identitarianism go hand in hand with
collectivism, authoritarianism and institutionalism. This brouhaha is
largely an institutional loyalty battle dominated by destructive
group-think.

Perhaps Libertarianism can avoid this institutional quicksand by shifting
our focus to inspiration and empowerment of the individual.

Thoughts?

~David Pratt Demarest

On Oct 25, 2017 2:26 PM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:

> I basically agree.
>
> The "basically," by the way, is that I don't find 'far' all that useful,
> as in far-right or far-left.  I don't think the problem is distance, I
> think they're actually distinct.  I haven't worked out a full theory yet,
> but here's the one I'm playing with:  we can identify three major
> affiliations (conservative, liberal, libertarian).  The versions of all of
> them we're used to (i.e. Romney and Macron for right and left,
> respectively) are products of the modern, post-tribal, civilized world.
> The first two, though, have "shadow versions" that are not part of the
> modern world: the pre-modern right, and the post-modern left.  These aren't
> more extreme than the non-shadow versions, just different - in fact, each
> form has its extremists and its moderates.  Libertarianism, on the other
> hand, has no shadow version - it simply can't exist without the basic
> assumptions of the modern world.  We can easily imagine extreme
> conservatives who are, nonetheless, modern: George W. Bush, perhaps, might
> be an example.  Likewise, we can imagine people who hold the
> ethnic-nationalist ideas of the "alt-right" in a moderate form.
>
> I think we're seeing, left and right, a revolt against modernity, and, as
> part of that, against freedom, individuality, and the scientific method.  I
> think there still exist modern forms of both, though, and each needs to
> have its internal fight.  All of us will be better off if the modern forms
> win.
>
> Trying to view everything as a matter of extremes produces confusing
> outcomes.  It leaves people unable to explain, for instance, why so many
> "far-right" people hate Christianity, and regard it (or all forms except
> the orthodox, in many cases) as a Jewish-Arab mongol religion - preferring
> such religions as Odinism, the "true" white religion.  (According to
> Carroll Quigley, Western civilization grew out of the Caananite and
> Classical civilizations, while Orthodox civilization grew out of Classical
> and Minoan civilizations.  He wrote that to explain cultural differences
> during the Cold War, but the ideas haven't gone away - see the second
> Charlottesville idiocy, where the chant was "Russia is our friend.")
>
> Joshua A. Katz
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Vigilance is always required.  I do find the ethno-nationalist movement
>> very dangerous.  But I have the opinion that the far left is equally so
>> (not that I think any of our affiliates are in bed with the far left), and
>> we rightly (notice I said the instinct is correct) get lathered up over one
>> and not the other.  I have seen calls for violent resistance to basic
>> property rights from scattered individuals (literally violent assertions),
>> yet never a word, but we can't talk enough about the violent right.  Both
>> are existential threats to our movement.  And we have to be vigilant
>> against both.  Violence, bigotry, identitarianism of any flavour (that I
>> understand is the new buzzword) has no place here.
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Joshua Katz <joshua.katz at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you to both Steven, Paul Frankel, and Tom Knapp for inserting
>>> much-needed facts into this discussion.  In light of these facts, I think
>>> vigilance is called for, but do not think it is appropriate, at this time,
>>> to make a relevant motion.
>>>
>>> I will note, without getting into the weeds, that while I won't quibble
>>> with facts alleged about Florida, I would disagree with some of the
>>> statements made about certain national groups, or in other ways about the
>>> dangerous movement we face.  I think they are more dangerous than they've
>>> been described here, and while in the past I considered them individually
>>> dangerous, I now consider them to be an organizational threat - and a
>>> threat to the modern world which made freedom possible.  (Murray Rothbard
>>> pointed out, in 1965, that freedom was made possible by the overthrow of
>>> the Ancien Regime, and I think the pre-modern thinking on the right, and
>>> the post-modern thinking on the left, are both creating an environment
>>> where it can return.)  I consider them, at the moment, the most immediate
>>> threat to freedom in our culture, since they have organized and gone beyond
>>> being individual cranks - they now are making moves on the world of ideas,
>>> which controls the rest.  And remember that far too many people associate
>>> us with them.  The Charlottesville morons (if it brings them any comfort, I
>>> think I speak on behalf of all Jews when I say that none of us desire to be
>>> mouth-breathing bigots carrying tiki torches, so their fears about us
>>> replacing them are misplaced) used a banner which was based on the Albany
>>> Plan of Union banner - and one of the snake pieces was labeled L.
>>>
>>> In any event, as concerns Florida, I think the analysis is pretty
>>> straightforward, although the determinations are not.  Is there a problem?
>>> I am convinced there is, and I am convinced we should not ignore it and
>>> blind ourselves to it.  Another party tried that approach, as well as
>>> "well, we'll bring them along for their votes on the things we agree
>>> about," and now is largely unable to get candidates who actually favor its
>>> basic ideas through primaries.  The next question, the crucial question, is
>>> - can the affiliate fix it?  (A related, but somewhat different question,
>>> is whether it wants to.)  I think the answer to that is yes.  There is, of
>>> course, a tipping point - a point where rather than try to fix the problem,
>>> good people simply leave, and the ability to fix the problem goes away.
>>> And good people are, it seems clear to me, leaving.  I still do not think
>>> the tipping point has been reached, though.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>
>>> At-Large Representative,
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: <travellingcircus at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:21 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF
>>> To: "Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org" <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>, Independent
>>> Political Report <independent-political-report at googlegroups.com>, "
>>> iprtwo at googlegroups.com" <iprtwo at googlegroups.com>, erin.adams at lp.org,
>>> Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>, Joshua Katz <joshua.katz at lp.org>,
>>> David Demarest <David.Demarest at lp.org>, Daniel Hayes <
>>> daniel.hayes at lp.org>, Ed Marsh <ednmax at yahoo.com>, Steven Nekhaila <
>>> Steven.Nekhaila at gmail.com>, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>, Paul
>>> Stanton <paul at stanton.name>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm writing to LNC members who commented in this thread plus Whitney as
>>> my rep, IPR teamCCed for background, and Paul Stanton CCed. If any of the
>>> LNC members copied feel it's worth sharing with the rest of LNC please do
>>> so. If not, my feelings won't be hurt either.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to comment on what if anything LNC should do, just lay out
>>> the facts as I know them,
>>>
>>> Just before Paul Stanton resigned from LPF exec comm he submitted the
>>> following to that body (see links embedded in original):
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/embed/#!topic/lpfec/7Ii6WazfTGo
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Tonight's motion 520 is mainly regarding threats and advocacy of
>>> violence against me and others, including a current US Senate candidate and
>>> former rules chair of the Libertarian Party of Miami-Dade.  Additionally,
>>> he is a leader in a white supremacist group, the American Guard
>>> <http://adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists>,
>>> a spin-off group of the violent anti-immigrant Sons of Odin - founded by Brien
>>> James
>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/brien-james> (who
>>> also founded the Vinlanders - a Neo-Nazi group responsible for dozens of
>>> murders).  The crossed cleavers in their shield is a reference to 19th century
>>> anti-immigrant gang leader, Bill the Butcher
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Poole> - an advocacy of violence
>>> against immigrants.
>>>
>>> Ryan Ramsey himself covers white nationalist "Rock Against Communism
>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism>" bands like S
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver>crewdriver
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver>, and advocates for Operation
>>> Werewolf <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werwolf>.  He has called the
>>> LNC Chair Nick Sarwark "Nazi Nick," citing Nick's Jewish religion, then
>>> blaming people "disingenuous political leaders like Nick Sarwark" for the
>>> rise of the Nazi Party and ultimately the Holocaust.
>>> <http://archive.is/EMZPY>
>>>
>>> Here are some links which I will be referencing tonight at the meeting:
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/libertarianheathen/photos/a.1959795
>>> 147587414.1073741828.1954915414742054/2002228056677456/
>>>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/libertarianheathen/photos/a.1959795147587414.1073741828.1954915414742054/2002228056677456/%3Cbr+/%3E>
>>> https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-
>>> white-supremacists
>>> http://libertarianheathen.com
>>> http://archive.is/t5jC7
>>>
>>> Bottom line, I am sick of seeing threats of violence against good
>>> Libertarians, and others disassociating in disgust over the intimidation
>>> tactics, dehumanization, and white supremacist rhetoric being employed by
>>> leaders within our party.  If we allow one of our leaders to threaten our
>>> membership while having the ability to stop it, voters and donors have no
>>> reason to take our party seriously, as we clearly do not.
>>>
>>> The delegates very clearly gave us the ability to remove people from the
>>> EC for violation of the non-aggression pledge.  Tonight we must decide if
>>> we will take that task seriously or not.
>>>
>>> In liberty,
>>> Paul Stanton
>>>
>>> Folowup message:
>>>
>>> Info about the 1930s German Nazi history book that Ryan Ramsey took his
>>> meme from:
>>> http://spartacus-educational.com/Jewish_Children.htm
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>
>>> Frankel: I can also attest to the threats coming from Ramsey, his former
>>> close associate Augustus Invictus and others in their circle.
>>>
>>> Back in April of this year, on a tip from IPR site owner Warren Redlich,
>>> I published http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/poli
>>> ce-report-augustus-invictus-accused-of-domestic-violence-sex
>>> ual-assault-kidnapping/  detailing that Mr. Invictus' ex-fiancee made
>>> these very serious allegations against him. I confirmed with the police
>>> department in question that the referenced report had in fact been filed. I
>>> made no comment in the article about the truth or falsehood of the
>>> allegations. Any comments of opinions I made in the comment section on the
>>> same basis as any of our other readers and clearly marked as opinion.
>>> Notably, the complaintant and associate of hers also reported death threats
>>> at the time from Invictus and Ramsey, who have since then (very recently)
>>> had a falling out. Witness tampering was also one of the allegations.
>>>
>>> I also *republished* http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/li
>>> bertarians-united-against-fascism-to-the-cowardly-collaborat
>>> ors-of-the-libertarian-party-of-florida-and-a-call-to-action
>>> -against-them/
>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/libertarians-united-against-fascism-to-the-cowardly-collaborators-of-the-libertarian-party-of-florida-and-a-call-to-action-against-them/>
>>> (note that the original and its website were taken down so the images no
>>> longer appear; scroll down to see the section about Ryan Ramsey as the last
>>> part of the article).
>>>
>>> As a response, 1) Augustus Invictus wrote me and Warren Redlich,
>>> insinuating possible legal action and hinting at other forms of
>>> retaliation; he later wrote another former associate of his, Raquel Okyay,
>>> which was later forwarded to me, naming me as one of the people he plans to
>>> take some form of unspecified revenge on.   2) Ryan Ramsey published two
>>> articles filled with outright lies and slanderous fictions about me,
>>> Redlich, and others alleging some grand conspiracy . You can find them at
>>> libertarianheathen.com with a search for Frankel. Ramsey and his
>>> associates continually spread this crap on FB and probably elsewhere.
>>>
>>> https://libertarianheathen.com/?s=frankel
>>>
>>> The slanderous lies from Ramsey were tit for tat retaliation – he said
>>> so himself, and offered a reciprocal unpublishing – because I reported the
>>> news that his then buddy Augustus Invictus, one of the Charlottesville
>>> organizers, had been accused of a pattern of domestic violence, kidnapping
>>> and rape by his ex-fiancee. I was simply reporting the news, not taking a
>>> stance, except in the comments; and even there I was careful to separate
>>> what I knew to be fact from my opinion and what others alleged.
>>> Furthermore, I reposted accurate reporting about Ryan Ramsey and his
>>> associates previously published elsewhere. His response was to
>>>
>>> 1) Publish lies about me, Warren Redlich and IPR, linked above
>>>
>>> 2) Offer to take them down if we took down our own reporting
>>>
>>> 3) Threaten to sic law enforcement on me for supposedly being a
>>> terrorist and threatening his wife, none of which is even remotely true.
>>> Specifically, he said he had contacted the Florida Department of Law
>>> Enforcement electronic crimes division and was planning to meet with the
>>> FBI and tell them that I am a terrorist (a preposterous lie) and that I
>>> threatened his then pregnant wife (another absurd fiction).
>>>
>>> 4) His pal Invictus broached the possibility of suing us (but said he
>>> wasn’t doing that, at least at that time)
>>>
>>> 5) Invictus later issued a non-specific threat against me and a few
>>> other people saying we will “get what is coming to us.” Among many other
>>> people he and his associates have threatened.
>>>
>>> Ryan Ramsey’s article is in fact full of attacks, slander and lies.
>>> Looking at just the headline alone: I am not editor in chief at IPR and in
>>> fact there is no such position. I am not a terrorist, and that is a
>>> slanderous claim. Moving beyond the headline I address numerous inaccurate
>>> statements, slanders, libel and downright lies in Ramsey’s article in a
>>> series of comments starting at http://independentpoliticalrep
>>> ort.com/2017/04/libertarians-united-against-fascism-write-op
>>> en-letter-to-lnc-starchild-responds/#comment-1581189 and continuing
>>> over a couple of dozen comments.
>>>
>>> To take one egregious example, Ramsey continually asserts that I had
>>> something to do with killing a dog. I did not, and while he is not the
>>> first person to spread this lie it is nevertheless a lie and he is not
>>> repeating it as a statement by someone else but rather as something he
>>> knows to be true, unlike the statements about him by others that I have
>>> published. There are many similar falsehoods throughout the article which I
>>> addressed in IPR comments.
>>>
>>> Others who have been threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and friends include *Tom
>>> Knapp *
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-p
>>> erhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-appro
>>> ach/#comment-1636145
>>>
>>> *"To date, twice when the AI combination pity party / threat machine got
>>> cranked up and I was involved in direct back and forth, I escalated from
>>> Condition Yellow to Condition Orange. This involves, among other things,
>>> making my family aware of a possible threat, ensuring that at least one
>>> person in the household in addition to myself has a loaded firearm near to
>>> hand at all times, and paying special attention to street traffic in my
>>> neighborhood (which is very low traffic so anything unusual stands out, and
>>> I have a nearby neighbor who knows to call if anything looks suspicious as
>>> well). "*
>>>
>>>
>>> Frankel again) The email I was forwarded from Invictus says in part *"Stanton,
>>> Tesky, Wyllie, Marchetti, and Frankel are all directly responsible for
>>> that, because the babysitter called the police based off the bullshit
>>> criminal allegations being pushed by those five. It was the ‘news’ story
>>> that caused the babysitter to call the police. Fourth and final: It never
>>> crossed my mind that Joe (Wendt) had anything to do with that, but if I
>>> find out that he was involved with Stanton or Tesky or Marchetti in pushing
>>> those criminal allegations, I will hang him with my own fucking hands. That
>>> entire situation is something so outrageous that I am not even discussing
>>> it. Each and every person who was involved or had knowledge of it will get
>>> what is coming to them."*
>>>
>>>
>>> And in fact, all of the people named, myself included, are among many
>>> others who have reported being threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and their
>>> circle of associates. Ramsey is still neck deep in it even now that
>>> Invictus has become a Republican.
>>>
>>> Ramsey is allegedly gloating about Stanton's resignation in these
>>> facebook groups, among others:
>>>
>>> Kekistan
>>> The Right Way: No Cucks, Only Kek
>>> Republic of Kekistan
>>> @The Deplorables and Basement Dwellers for Trump
>>> Anti-SJW
>>> Anti-SJW Pinochet's Beach Party
>>>
>>>
>>> The ex-fiancee of Invictus, Ms. Rice, and her friend Ms. Brown along
>>> with others they knew also reported being threatened and intimidated by
>>> Invictus, Ramsey et al.
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/joe-wendt-for-
>>> us-senate-new-lp-of-florida-chair-undermines-libertarian-pri
>>> nciples-in-favor-of-white-nationalists/
>>>
>>>
>>> ....
>>>
>>> *Libertarian Party Candidate for U.S. Senate, Joe Wendt, condemns LPF
>>> Chair, Marcos Miralles, for pursuing a policy that promotes white
>>> nationalists within the Libertarian Party of Florida. “Mr. Miralles has
>>> appointed known white nationalists to leadership positions.”*
>>>
>>>
>>> *...*
>>>
>>> *“I have been threatened with physical violence by white nationalist
>>> supporters of Miralles,” said Wendt. “*
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://goog_1698321734>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-p
>>> erhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/  see
>>> embedded links in original"
>>>
>>>
>>> *We are losing good members, and the trust of the public, due to the
>>> elevation of leaders in extremist hate groups to our party leadership.  We
>>> need a new approach.  Local libertarian-leaning politicians and voters
>>> associate us with far-right extremists.  As of yesterday, my county no
>>> longer has a full slate of candidates for the Florida House.   One of the
>>> Libertarian candidates I drafted will now unfortunately be running NPA.
>>> Yesterday, we also lost our incoming Rules Committee chair.  Previously,
>>> both our former gubernatorial nominee and our senatorial nominee (prior to
>>> me) have resigned their LPF memberships, among countless other Libertarian
>>> activists and volunteers.  A member of my 2016 Senate campaign ended her
>>> participation with the party, because her employer forbids associations
>>> with members of extremist hate groups advocating for violence. A single
>>> friend (who ceased her participation after receiving death threats) has
>>> reported that no fewer than 30 of her acquaintances have withdrawn from
>>> Libertarian Party activism due to risks to themselves and their
>>> reputations.*
>>>
>>> *During my US Senate campaign, I never expected the situation that
>>> unfolded.  I expected the personal attacks, but I never expected racist
>>> fantasies about my mother, posting of personal information about members of
>>> my family, or the violent threats and sexual harassment targeting my
>>> supporters and members of my campaign.  Last month, after I introduced a
>>> motion (which was killed) to remove Florida’s member of the Libertarian
>>> Party Platform Committee for his racist statements
>>> <http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-racist_is_a_code_word_for_anti-white#.22The_mantra.22>,
>>> I was accused of wanting to kill all white people, in a “white genocide
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory>”
>>> conspiracy theory.  And now today, there have been threats that
>>> the militant <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers_of_Odin> hate
>>> <http://www.theindychannel.com/longform/who-are-the-american-guard-patriotic-nationalists-or-skinheads-in-disguise> group
>>> <https://godsandradicals.org/2017/03/18/heathen-know-nothings-the-american-guard/> the
>>> <http://forward.com/fast-forward/368055/white-supremacists-and-skinheads-join-pro-trump-rally/> American
>>> Guard
>>> <https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists>may
>>> be waiting for me in the parking lot, or harassing county party meetings.
>>> We must have higher standards for our party leadership!*
>>> *Sadly, these are common intimidation tactics among white nationalists,
>>> and there are several other victims throughout Florida.  This behavior
>>> cannot be accepted.  We cannot continue to elevate these people.
>>> Libertarianism stands for maximum freedom for everyone, universally. We
>>> dishonor ourselves and our party by enabling liars with wildly divergent
>>> philosophies, who stand immediately adjacent to neo-Nazis
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_(United_States)>, white
>>> nationalists
>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/vinlanders-social-club>, fascists
>>> <https://johnmhudak.com/2017/07/16/rise-of-the-anarcho-statists-part-iii-augustus-sol-invictus-the-unconquerable-sun-god/>,organized
>>> criminal syndicates
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaws_Motorcycle_Club>, and domestic
>>> terrorists <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Front>.*
>>>
>>>
>>> From the comments:
>>>
>>>
>>>    1. Starchild <http://www.openborders.info/>*July 22, 2017 at 09:26*
>>>    <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1634719>
>>>
>>>    *Joe, do you know which individuals were shouting “white power” at
>>>    the state convention? Is there video evidence of this? I would hope those
>>>    individuals are identified and ostracized, and that other Libertarians will
>>>    make clear to them that there is no room for such racism in the LP. That is
>>>    not what we are about. If individuals who seek to act in such a manner
>>>    leave the party, that is not a loss for us but a gain.*
>>>    2.
>>>
>>>
>>>    3. Joe Wendt*July 22, 2017 at 12:10*
>>>    <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1634766>
>>>
>>>    *Starchild,*
>>>
>>>    *The individuals in question are supports of the current LPF Chair.
>>>    Although Augustus Invictus, the most prominent of the White Nationalists,
>>>    has left the party, unfortunately other less prominent White Nationalists
>>>    are not [only -p] remaining active in the LPF, the Chair is actually giving
>>>    them positions of authority.*
>>>
>>> *Screenshot of Ramsey threatening to knock Wendt’s teeth out and saying
>>> he may have an “accident”*
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/wp-content/uploads/201
>>> 7/07/received_10159060778305274.png
>>> paulie <https://www.facebook.com/paulie.cannoli>July 23, 2017 at 12:04
>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1635134>
>>>
>>> Again, it’s not about Joe.* Yes Ramsey threatened Joe, but he also
>>> threatened many other people, as has Invictus and their other buddies.
>>> There are numerous sources for that, including me. *Yes, Ramsey has
>>> spread bullshit about me. I think he is still doing it although I haven’t
>>> checked lately. Did he know it to be false or did he just repeat what other
>>> people said? Well, he couldn’t have known it to be true since it was not
>>> true and he did not say “so and so says” he just repeated things as if they
>>> were facts and added new ones such as the bullshit about me being a
>>> terrorist and member of a terrorist groups and the bullshit about me making
>>> threats against his wife. And again, *these are just examples just as
>>> the other examples in Stanton’s article are only examples.*
>>>
>>> *The real issue is that there is an ongoing pattern as reported by many
>>> different people of Invictus, Ramsey and their circle of friends issuing
>>> threats, spreading lies .. to and about many different people .. and
>>> maintaining ongoing close associations with multiple white supremacist
>>> groups and violent groups and individuals.*
>>>
>>> ....
>>>
>>> *Ramsey says “You were awful meek last night punk. Ill see you soon
>>> though and well see how mouthy you are”* which is clearly physical
>>> intimidation. Joe is talking shit on the internet but Ramsey says he will
>>> not do it in person. Why not? Clearly due to threat of physical violence.
>>> Ramsey follows this up with *“Id be more concerned with the teeth in
>>> your mouth at this point joe. Your dental plan good?” *which in the
>>> context of his earlier statement is not exactly a very veiled threat. If he
>>> was genuinely concerned about Joe slipping and falling due to being drunk,
>>> which is laughable in the context of the conversation, he would not have
>>> made the threat so specific.
>>>
>>> And the larger context of course is that there have been many other
>>> threats, to many other people, myself as well as this publication (IPR)
>>> included.
>>> Joe WendtJuly 23, 2017 at 13:55
>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1635174>
>>>
>>> *To Andy,*
>>>
>>> *I have contacted the police. Since it has not progressed beyond
>>> Facebook, they told me to block him and contact them again if he continues
>>> the harassing and threatening behavior. They will be called if he threatens
>>> me again.*
>>> paulie <https://www.facebook.com/paulie.cannoli>July 23, 2017 at 14:19
>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1635179>
>>>
>>> Also, if all of these if all of these violent threats have been made,
>>> why hasn’t anyone gone to jail? Has anyone even gotten a restraining order?
>>>
>>> Don’t be naive. Threats are not always made in a verifiable, provable
>>> form. I’ve received plenty of threats over the years, including death
>>> threats, and I have never felt the urge to go to the cops about it. What
>>> the fuck are they going to do? While they conduct their half assed
>>> investigation I may get killed or injured or whatever else. Or someone else
>>> around me.
>>>
>>> And one of the people that has been threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and
>>> friends made a good point. This person said that Ramsey has known contacts
>>> in law enforcement and that there are known ties between many members of
>>> law enforcement and white supremacist groups such as the ones Ramsey and
>>> Invictus have a lot of ties to. So reporting anything to law enforcement
>>> may actually be cutting your own throat if you get threatened by these
>>> assholes.
>>>
>>> FL: Augustus Invictus campaigns in front of white nationalist skinhead
>>> music banner
>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-augustus-invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinhead-music-banner/>
>>>   http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-aug
>>> ustus-invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinh
>>> ead-music-banner/
>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-augustus-invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinhead-music-banner/>
>>> Note: Ramsey also frequently associates with that same banner to this day.
>>> "Rock Against Communism" may sound like something that libertarians would
>>> agree with, but in reality it's a well-known neo-nazi front organization
>>> that no "former" white supremacist (as Ramsey claims to be) would have any
>>> association with.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism
>>>
>>> *The Rock Against Communism movement originated in the United Kingdom
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom> in late 1978 with far right
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right> activists associated with
>>> the National Front
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Front> (NF).[4]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-soundtrack-4> It
>>> was intended to counter the Rock Against Racism
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Racism> organisation.[4]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-soundtrack-4> The
>>> first RAC concert was in Leeds
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds>, England
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England> in 1978, featuring the Nazi punk
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_punk> bands The Dentists and The
>>> Ventz.[5]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-5> RAC held
>>> one concert in 1979 and another in spring 1983, which was headlined
>>> by Skrewdriver <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver>, a white power
>>> rock <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_power_rock> band led by Ian
>>> Stuart Donaldson <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stuart_Donaldson>.
>>> After that, RAC concerts were held more often. They were often headlined by
>>> Skrewdriver and featured other white power bands, such as Skullhead
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skullhead> and No Remorse
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Remorse_(band)>. In the mid-1980s, summer
>>> concerts were often held at the Suffolk
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk> home of Edgar Griffin
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Griffin>, a Conservative Party
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)> activist[6]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-6> and
>>> father of Nick Griffin <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin>, an NF
>>> organiser who later became the national chair of the British National Party
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party>. By the late 1980s,
>>> the RAC name had given way to the White Noise Club (another NF-based
>>> group), and later Blood and Honour
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Honour>, which was set up
>>> by Donaldson <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaldson> when they fell out
>>> with the NF leadership.[4]
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-soundtrack-4> As hardcore
>>> punk <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_punk> music became more
>>> popular in the 1990s and 2000s, many white power bands took on a more
>>> hardcore-influenced sound.*
>>>
>>> Note that Ryan Ramsey continues to proudly wave the "Rock against
>>> communism" banner.
>>>
>>> Chuck Moulton: ‘LP conventions, avoid alt-right / white supremacist
>>> event speakers’
>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/chuck-moulton-lp-conventions-avoid-alt-right-white-supremacist-event-speakers/>
>>>  http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/chuck-moulton
>>> -lp-conventions-avoid-alt-right-white-supremacist-event-speakers/
>>>
>>> More background:
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/alexandria-bro
>>> wn-response-to-ryan-ramsey-and-timeline-of-events/
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/update-on-rape
>>> -assault-kidnapping-and-witness-tampering-allegations-agains
>>> t-augustus-invictus/
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/update-on-augu
>>> stus-invictus-criminal-allegations-and-retraction-of-censure
>>> -from-florida-lp-possible-disaffiliation-by-lnc-floated/
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/david-colborne
>>> -augustus-sol-invictus-is-not-welcome-in-my-state/
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/knppster-were-
>>> going-to-shut-it-down/
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/knapp-replace-
>>> lp-of-florida-exec-comm-and-bylaws/
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/paul-stanton-l
>>> p-florida-chair-marcos-miralles-must-resign/ :
>>>
>>>
>>> *Marcos Miralles began his race for Chair of the LPF with the support
>>> of Augustus Sol Invictus
>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/augustus-sol-invictus-austin-gillespie>and
>>> Ryan Ramsey, both leaders in white supremacist groups, including the
>>> American Guard
>>> <https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists>.
>>>  (The American Guard was one of the groups present in Charlottesville last
>>> weekend.
>>> <http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/indianapolis/indiana-american-guard-among-protestors-at-charlottesville-unite-the-right-rally>)
>>>  Invictus was also a featured speaker at the Charlottesville white
>>> supremacist rally.
>>> <http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-augustus-invictus-charlottesville-20170814-story.html>  The
>>> support has not been one-sided.  Last year, Marcos Miralles provided a town
>>> hall for Invictus
>>> <http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article97524342.html> (as
>>> part of a campaign to stir up drama during the primary), the pictures from
>>> which are still used by the Miami Herald to associate our party with
>>> Invictus <http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article167083427.html>.
>>> Additionally, he proudly displayed Ryan Ramsey’s endorsement on his website
>>> and appointed Ryan Ramsey <https://docs.lpf.org/meeting/july-16th-2017/> to
>>> our Legislative Review Committee.  There is no place for white supremacy in
>>> the Libertarian Party of Florida.*
>>>
>>> *Thankfully, there was a recent press release
>>> <https://lpf.org/2017/08/libertarian-party-florida-first-strongest-voice-hate-filled-groups/> condemning
>>> the events in Charlottesville.  Unfortunately, Marcos Miralles has refused
>>> to condemn the white supremacists within our party, or recant his previous
>>> support.  Instead, he insists that he will “work with everybody” and has
>>> dismissed worries about white supremacists using our party to support their
>>> platform as “non sense,” despite the support of the previously-mentioned
>>> Libertarians, and despite the Libertarian Party of Florida’s representative
>>> to the Libertarian Party platform committee, Frank Caprio.  Caprio
>>> regularly makes very racist comments, including quotes white
>>> supremacist Bob Whitaker
>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/06/07/bob-whitaker-author-racist-mantra-white-genocide-has-died>.
>>> I physically cringed when I read Marcos write: “The Libertarian Party of
>>> Florida will forever remain the safest home for all of those that fight for
>>> civil rights.”  As one of the Libertarian victims of violent threats and
>>> harassment (a Muslim mother of biracial children) stated, “The Libertarian
>>> Party was not a safe haven for me and many others like me.  It should be,
>>> by principle. […] But that’s not the present day reality.”  Sadly, she
>>> ended her participation with the party after concerns with the safety of
>>> her family. When she reached out to Miralles, she was ignored and blocked
>>> on social media.*
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/knapp-dickey-c
>>> over-2017-libertarian-party-of-florida-convention/ http://in
>>> dependentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/knapp-dickey-cover-2017
>>> -libertarian-party-of-florida-convention/
>>>
>>> There were people yelling white power. Larry Sharpe went on an alt-right
>>> vlog by Ryan Ramsey called the Mad American Network. That group was with
>>> Invictus in Harrisburg, PA and at least one member, Dave Martel, was seen
>>> sieg heiling there. Invictus chased someone out of a courtesy suite with
>>> threats of violence. Invictus was then pushing Paul Stanton trying to pick
>>> a fight. There was loud applause of his speech where he hijacked our
>>> convention for five minutes, then just bragged about it…
>>>
>>> …our gubernatorial candidate denied Stanton a mic for a privileged
>>> motion, so that he could procedurally kill a pro-immigration platform plank
>>> without letting it be read.
>>>
>>> Thomas Knapp lost an ad hoc election to the LP platform committee to a
>>> “constitutional conservative” who once told me, “anti-racist is code for
>>> anti-white,” Frank Caprio. He’s from the LP of Orange County (Orlando area,
>>> same as Invictus -p).
>>>
>>> Oh, and by the way – no pretend antifa protesters showed up, of course.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/09/paul-frankel-w
>>> hy-libertarians-need-to-denounce-the-alt-right-and-white-nat
>>> ionalists-and-dont-need-to-worry-about-libertarian-socialist
>>> s-and-antifa/
>>>
>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/lsla-2017-phys
>>> ically-removed-so-to-speak-making-the-lp-inhospitable-to-the
>>> -alt-right-and-other-nazis/
>>>
>>> I'm sure that's more than enough for now, but there's plenty more. Feel
>>> free to email or call 205-534-1622 <(205)%20534-1622> to discuss, and
>>> forward wherever or whenever you wish.
>>>
>>> Paul Frankel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 8:39 AM, <lnc-votes at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also agree with Ed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Caryn Ann, just to make it perfectly clear, I will support an
>>>> investigative motion only if requested by someone in the Florida affiliate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the meantime, I will continue to disregard political correctness,
>>>> speak out against mindless bigotry at every opportunity and encourage
>>>> economic and social ostracism to cope with both supremacist violence and
>>>> the moral wrong of non-violent ‘bake the cake’ intolerance. State-sponsored
>>>> retaliatory viole
>>>>
>>>
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> ...
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