[Lnc-business] Fwd: [Lnc-votes] Resignation From LPF

[Ken Moellman]

There is absolutely no room for bigotry of any kind in the libertarian
movement. It is wholly incompatible with our philosophy.

On Oct 25, 2017 4:14 PM, "David Demarest" <dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would add that violence, bigotry and identitarianism go hand in hand
> with collectivism, authoritarianism and institutionalism. This brouhaha is
> largely an institutional loyalty battle dominated by destructive
> group-think.
>
> Perhaps Libertarianism can avoid this institutional quicksand by shifting
> our focus to inspiration and empowerment of the individual.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> ~David Pratt Demarest
>
> On Oct 25, 2017 2:26 PM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I basically agree.
>>
>> The "basically," by the way, is that I don't find 'far' all that useful,
>> as in far-right or far-left.  I don't think the problem is distance, I
>> think they're actually distinct.  I haven't worked out a full theory yet,
>> but here's the one I'm playing with:  we can identify three major
>> affiliations (conservative, liberal, libertarian).  The versions of all of
>> them we're used to (i.e. Romney and Macron for right and left,
>> respectively) are products of the modern, post-tribal, civilized world.
>> The first two, though, have "shadow versions" that are not part of the
>> modern world: the pre-modern right, and the post-modern left.  These aren't
>> more extreme than the non-shadow versions, just different - in fact, each
>> form has its extremists and its moderates.  Libertarianism, on the other
>> hand, has no shadow version - it simply can't exist without the basic
>> assumptions of the modern world.  We can easily imagine extreme
>> conservatives who are, nonetheless, modern: George W. Bush, perhaps, might
>> be an example.  Likewise, we can imagine people who hold the
>> ethnic-nationalist ideas of the "alt-right" in a moderate form.
>>
>> I think we're seeing, left and right, a revolt against modernity, and, as
>> part of that, against freedom, individuality, and the scientific method.  I
>> think there still exist modern forms of both, though, and each needs to
>> have its internal fight.  All of us will be better off if the modern forms
>> win.
>>
>> Trying to view everything as a matter of extremes produces confusing
>> outcomes.  It leaves people unable to explain, for instance, why so many
>> "far-right" people hate Christianity, and regard it (or all forms except
>> the orthodox, in many cases) as a Jewish-Arab mongol religion - preferring
>> such religions as Odinism, the "true" white religion.  (According to
>> Carroll Quigley, Western civilization grew out of the Caananite and
>> Classical civilizations, while Orthodox civilization grew out of Classical
>> and Minoan civilizations.  He wrote that to explain cultural differences
>> during the Cold War, but the ideas haven't gone away - see the second
>> Charlottesville idiocy, where the chant was "Russia is our friend.")
>>
>> Joshua A. Katz
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Vigilance is always required.  I do find the ethno-nationalist movement
>>> very dangerous.  But I have the opinion that the far left is equally so
>>> (not that I think any of our affiliates are in bed with the far left), and
>>> we rightly (notice I said the instinct is correct) get lathered up over one
>>> and not the other.  I have seen calls for violent resistance to basic
>>> property rights from scattered individuals (literally violent assertions),
>>> yet never a word, but we can't talk enough about the violent right.  Both
>>> are existential threats to our movement.  And we have to be vigilant
>>> against both.  Violence, bigotry, identitarianism of any flavour (that I
>>> understand is the new buzzword) has no place here.
>>>
>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Joshua Katz <joshua.katz at lp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you to both Steven, Paul Frankel, and Tom Knapp for inserting
>>>> much-needed facts into this discussion.  In light of these facts, I think
>>>> vigilance is called for, but do not think it is appropriate, at this time,
>>>> to make a relevant motion.
>>>>
>>>> I will note, without getting into the weeds, that while I won't quibble
>>>> with facts alleged about Florida, I would disagree with some of the
>>>> statements made about certain national groups, or in other ways about the
>>>> dangerous movement we face.  I think they are more dangerous than they've
>>>> been described here, and while in the past I considered them individually
>>>> dangerous, I now consider them to be an organizational threat - and a
>>>> threat to the modern world which made freedom possible.  (Murray Rothbard
>>>> pointed out, in 1965, that freedom was made possible by the overthrow of
>>>> the Ancien Regime, and I think the pre-modern thinking on the right, and
>>>> the post-modern thinking on the left, are both creating an environment
>>>> where it can return.)  I consider them, at the moment, the most immediate
>>>> threat to freedom in our culture, since they have organized and gone beyond
>>>> being individual cranks - they now are making moves on the world of ideas,
>>>> which controls the rest.  And remember that far too many people associate
>>>> us with them.  The Charlottesville morons (if it brings them any comfort, I
>>>> think I speak on behalf of all Jews when I say that none of us desire to be
>>>> mouth-breathing bigots carrying tiki torches, so their fears about us
>>>> replacing them are misplaced) used a banner which was based on the Albany
>>>> Plan of Union banner - and one of the snake pieces was labeled L.
>>>>
>>>> In any event, as concerns Florida, I think the analysis is pretty
>>>> straightforward, although the determinations are not.  Is there a problem?
>>>> I am convinced there is, and I am convinced we should not ignore it and
>>>> blind ourselves to it.  Another party tried that approach, as well as
>>>> "well, we'll bring them along for their votes on the things we agree
>>>> about," and now is largely unable to get candidates who actually favor its
>>>> basic ideas through primaries.  The next question, the crucial question, is
>>>> - can the affiliate fix it?  (A related, but somewhat different question,
>>>> is whether it wants to.)  I think the answer to that is yes.  There is, of
>>>> course, a tipping point - a point where rather than try to fix the problem,
>>>> good people simply leave, and the ability to fix the problem goes away.
>>>> And good people are, it seems clear to me, leaving.  I still do not think
>>>> the tipping point has been reached, though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>
>>>> At-Large Representative,
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: <travellingcircus at gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:21 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF
>>>> To: "Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org" <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>, Independent
>>>> Political Report <independent-political-report at googlegroups.com>, "
>>>> iprtwo at googlegroups.com" <iprtwo at googlegroups.com>, erin.adams at lp.org,
>>>> Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>, Joshua Katz <joshua.katz at lp.org>,
>>>> David Demarest <David.Demarest at lp.org>, Daniel Hayes <
>>>> daniel.hayes at lp.org>, Ed Marsh <ednmax at yahoo.com>, Steven Nekhaila <
>>>> Steven.Nekhaila at gmail.com>, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>, Paul
>>>> Stanton <paul at stanton.name>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm writing to LNC members who commented in this thread plus Whitney as
>>>> my rep, IPR teamCCed for background, and Paul Stanton CCed. If any of the
>>>> LNC members copied feel it's worth sharing with the rest of LNC please do
>>>> so. If not, my feelings won't be hurt either.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not going to comment on what if anything LNC should do, just lay
>>>> out the facts as I know them,
>>>>
>>>> Just before Paul Stanton resigned from LPF exec comm he submitted the
>>>> following to that body (see links embedded in original):
>>>>
>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/embed/#!topic/lpfec/7Ii6WazfTGo
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> Tonight's motion 520 is mainly regarding threats and advocacy of
>>>> violence against me and others, including a current US Senate candidate and
>>>> former rules chair of the Libertarian Party of Miami-Dade.  Additionally,
>>>> he is a leader in a white supremacist group, the American Guard
>>>> <http://adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists>,
>>>> a spin-off group of the violent anti-immigrant Sons of Odin - founded by Brien
>>>> James
>>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/brien-james> (who
>>>> also founded the Vinlanders - a Neo-Nazi group responsible for dozens of
>>>> murders).  The crossed cleavers in their shield is a reference to 19th century
>>>> anti-immigrant gang leader, Bill the Butcher
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Poole> - an advocacy of
>>>> violence against immigrants.
>>>>
>>>> Ryan Ramsey himself covers white nationalist "Rock Against Communism
>>>> <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism>" bands like S
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver>crewdriver
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver>, and advocates for Operation
>>>> Werewolf <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werwolf>.  He has called the
>>>> LNC Chair Nick Sarwark "Nazi Nick," citing Nick's Jewish religion, then
>>>> blaming people "disingenuous political leaders like Nick Sarwark" for the
>>>> rise of the Nazi Party and ultimately the Holocaust.
>>>> <http://archive.is/EMZPY>
>>>>
>>>> Here are some links which I will be referencing tonight at the meeting:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.facebook.com/libertarianheathen/photos/a.1959795
>>>> 147587414.1073741828.1954915414742054/2002228056677456/
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/libertarianheathen/photos/a.1959795147587414.1073741828.1954915414742054/2002228056677456/%3Cbr+/%3E>
>>>> https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-
>>>> white-supremacists
>>>> http://libertarianheathen.com
>>>> http://archive.is/t5jC7
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line, I am sick of seeing threats of violence against good
>>>> Libertarians, and others disassociating in disgust over the intimidation
>>>> tactics, dehumanization, and white supremacist rhetoric being employed by
>>>> leaders within our party.  If we allow one of our leaders to threaten our
>>>> membership while having the ability to stop it, voters and donors have no
>>>> reason to take our party seriously, as we clearly do not.
>>>>
>>>> The delegates very clearly gave us the ability to remove people from
>>>> the EC for violation of the non-aggression pledge.  Tonight we must decide
>>>> if we will take that task seriously or not.
>>>>
>>>> In liberty,
>>>> Paul Stanton
>>>>
>>>> Folowup message:
>>>>
>>>> Info about the 1930s German Nazi history book that Ryan Ramsey took his
>>>> meme from:
>>>> http://spartacus-educational.com/Jewish_Children.htm
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Frankel: I can also attest to the threats coming from Ramsey, his
>>>> former close associate Augustus Invictus and others in their circle.
>>>>
>>>> Back in April of this year, on a tip from IPR site owner Warren
>>>> Redlich, I published http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/poli
>>>> ce-report-augustus-invictus-accused-of-domestic-violence-sex
>>>> ual-assault-kidnapping/  detailing that Mr. Invictus' ex-fiancee made
>>>> these very serious allegations against him. I confirmed with the police
>>>> department in question that the referenced report had in fact been filed. I
>>>> made no comment in the article about the truth or falsehood of the
>>>> allegations. Any comments of opinions I made in the comment section on the
>>>> same basis as any of our other readers and clearly marked as opinion.
>>>> Notably, the complaintant and associate of hers also reported death threats
>>>> at the time from Invictus and Ramsey, who have since then (very recently)
>>>> had a falling out. Witness tampering was also one of the allegations.
>>>>
>>>> I also *republished* http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/li
>>>> bertarians-united-against-fascism-to-the-cowardly-collaborat
>>>> ors-of-the-libertarian-party-of-florida-and-a-call-to-action
>>>> -against-them/
>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/libertarians-united-against-fascism-to-the-cowardly-collaborators-of-the-libertarian-party-of-florida-and-a-call-to-action-against-them/>
>>>> (note that the original and its website were taken down so the images no
>>>> longer appear; scroll down to see the section about Ryan Ramsey as the last
>>>> part of the article).
>>>>
>>>> As a response, 1) Augustus Invictus wrote me and Warren Redlich,
>>>> insinuating possible legal action and hinting at other forms of
>>>> retaliation; he later wrote another former associate of his, Raquel Okyay,
>>>> which was later forwarded to me, naming me as one of the people he plans to
>>>> take some form of unspecified revenge on.   2) Ryan Ramsey published two
>>>> articles filled with outright lies and slanderous fictions about me,
>>>> Redlich, and others alleging some grand conspiracy . You can find them at
>>>> libertarianheathen.com with a search for Frankel. Ramsey and his
>>>> associates continually spread this crap on FB and probably elsewhere.
>>>>
>>>> https://libertarianheathen.com/?s=frankel
>>>>
>>>> The slanderous lies from Ramsey were tit for tat retaliation – he said
>>>> so himself, and offered a reciprocal unpublishing – because I reported the
>>>> news that his then buddy Augustus Invictus, one of the Charlottesville
>>>> organizers, had been accused of a pattern of domestic violence, kidnapping
>>>> and rape by his ex-fiancee. I was simply reporting the news, not taking a
>>>> stance, except in the comments; and even there I was careful to separate
>>>> what I knew to be fact from my opinion and what others alleged.
>>>> Furthermore, I reposted accurate reporting about Ryan Ramsey and his
>>>> associates previously published elsewhere. His response was to
>>>>
>>>> 1) Publish lies about me, Warren Redlich and IPR, linked above
>>>>
>>>> 2) Offer to take them down if we took down our own reporting
>>>>
>>>> 3) Threaten to sic law enforcement on me for supposedly being a
>>>> terrorist and threatening his wife, none of which is even remotely true.
>>>> Specifically, he said he had contacted the Florida Department of Law
>>>> Enforcement electronic crimes division and was planning to meet with the
>>>> FBI and tell them that I am a terrorist (a preposterous lie) and that I
>>>> threatened his then pregnant wife (another absurd fiction).
>>>>
>>>> 4) His pal Invictus broached the possibility of suing us (but said he
>>>> wasn’t doing that, at least at that time)
>>>>
>>>> 5) Invictus later issued a non-specific threat against me and a few
>>>> other people saying we will “get what is coming to us.” Among many other
>>>> people he and his associates have threatened.
>>>>
>>>> Ryan Ramsey’s article is in fact full of attacks, slander and lies.
>>>> Looking at just the headline alone: I am not editor in chief at IPR and in
>>>> fact there is no such position. I am not a terrorist, and that is a
>>>> slanderous claim. Moving beyond the headline I address numerous inaccurate
>>>> statements, slanders, libel and downright lies in Ramsey’s article in a
>>>> series of comments starting at http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>> ort.com/2017/04/libertarians-united-against-fascism-write-op
>>>> en-letter-to-lnc-starchild-responds/#comment-1581189 and continuing
>>>> over a couple of dozen comments.
>>>>
>>>> To take one egregious example, Ramsey continually asserts that I had
>>>> something to do with killing a dog. I did not, and while he is not the
>>>> first person to spread this lie it is nevertheless a lie and he is not
>>>> repeating it as a statement by someone else but rather as something he
>>>> knows to be true, unlike the statements about him by others that I have
>>>> published. There are many similar falsehoods throughout the article which I
>>>> addressed in IPR comments.
>>>>
>>>> Others who have been threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and friends include *Tom
>>>> Knapp *
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-p
>>>> erhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-appro
>>>> ach/#comment-1636145
>>>>
>>>> *"To date, twice when the AI combination pity party / threat machine
>>>> got cranked up and I was involved in direct back and forth, I escalated
>>>> from Condition Yellow to Condition Orange. This involves, among other
>>>> things, making my family aware of a possible threat, ensuring that at least
>>>> one person in the household in addition to myself has a loaded firearm near
>>>> to hand at all times, and paying special attention to street traffic in my
>>>> neighborhood (which is very low traffic so anything unusual stands out, and
>>>> I have a nearby neighbor who knows to call if anything looks suspicious as
>>>> well). "*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frankel again) The email I was forwarded from Invictus says in part *"Stanton,
>>>> Tesky, Wyllie, Marchetti, and Frankel are all directly responsible for
>>>> that, because the babysitter called the police based off the bullshit
>>>> criminal allegations being pushed by those five. It was the ‘news’ story
>>>> that caused the babysitter to call the police. Fourth and final: It never
>>>> crossed my mind that Joe (Wendt) had anything to do with that, but if I
>>>> find out that he was involved with Stanton or Tesky or Marchetti in pushing
>>>> those criminal allegations, I will hang him with my own fucking hands. That
>>>> entire situation is something so outrageous that I am not even discussing
>>>> it. Each and every person who was involved or had knowledge of it will get
>>>> what is coming to them."*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And in fact, all of the people named, myself included, are among many
>>>> others who have reported being threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and their
>>>> circle of associates. Ramsey is still neck deep in it even now that
>>>> Invictus has become a Republican.
>>>>
>>>> Ramsey is allegedly gloating about Stanton's resignation in these
>>>> facebook groups, among others:
>>>>
>>>> Kekistan
>>>> The Right Way: No Cucks, Only Kek
>>>> Republic of Kekistan
>>>> @The Deplorables and Basement Dwellers for Trump
>>>> Anti-SJW
>>>> Anti-SJW Pinochet's Beach Party
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The ex-fiancee of Invictus, Ms. Rice, and her friend Ms. Brown along
>>>> with others they knew also reported being threatened and intimidated by
>>>> Invictus, Ramsey et al.
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/joe-wendt-for-
>>>> us-senate-new-lp-of-florida-chair-undermines-libertarian-pri
>>>> nciples-in-favor-of-white-nationalists/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ....
>>>>
>>>> *Libertarian Party Candidate for U.S. Senate, Joe Wendt, condemns LPF
>>>> Chair, Marcos Miralles, for pursuing a policy that promotes white
>>>> nationalists within the Libertarian Party of Florida. “Mr. Miralles has
>>>> appointed known white nationalists to leadership positions.”*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *...*
>>>>
>>>> *“I have been threatened with physical violence by white nationalist
>>>> supporters of Miralles,” said Wendt. “*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://goog_1698321734>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-p
>>>> erhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/  see
>>>> embedded links in original"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *We are losing good members, and the trust of the public, due to the
>>>> elevation of leaders in extremist hate groups to our party leadership.  We
>>>> need a new approach.  Local libertarian-leaning politicians and voters
>>>> associate us with far-right extremists.  As of yesterday, my county no
>>>> longer has a full slate of candidates for the Florida House.   One of the
>>>> Libertarian candidates I drafted will now unfortunately be running NPA.
>>>> Yesterday, we also lost our incoming Rules Committee chair.  Previously,
>>>> both our former gubernatorial nominee and our senatorial nominee (prior to
>>>> me) have resigned their LPF memberships, among countless other Libertarian
>>>> activists and volunteers.  A member of my 2016 Senate campaign ended her
>>>> participation with the party, because her employer forbids associations
>>>> with members of extremist hate groups advocating for violence. A single
>>>> friend (who ceased her participation after receiving death threats) has
>>>> reported that no fewer than 30 of her acquaintances have withdrawn from
>>>> Libertarian Party activism due to risks to themselves and their
>>>> reputations.*
>>>>
>>>> *During my US Senate campaign, I never expected the situation that
>>>> unfolded.  I expected the personal attacks, but I never expected racist
>>>> fantasies about my mother, posting of personal information about members of
>>>> my family, or the violent threats and sexual harassment targeting my
>>>> supporters and members of my campaign.  Last month, after I introduced a
>>>> motion (which was killed) to remove Florida’s member of the Libertarian
>>>> Party Platform Committee for his racist statements
>>>> <http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-racist_is_a_code_word_for_anti-white#.22The_mantra.22>,
>>>> I was accused of wanting to kill all white people, in a “white genocide
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory>”
>>>> conspiracy theory.  And now today, there have been threats that
>>>> the militant <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers_of_Odin> hate
>>>> <http://www.theindychannel.com/longform/who-are-the-american-guard-patriotic-nationalists-or-skinheads-in-disguise> group
>>>> <https://godsandradicals.org/2017/03/18/heathen-know-nothings-the-american-guard/> the
>>>> <http://forward.com/fast-forward/368055/white-supremacists-and-skinheads-join-pro-trump-rally/> American
>>>> Guard
>>>> <https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists>may
>>>> be waiting for me in the parking lot, or harassing county party meetings.
>>>> We must have higher standards for our party leadership!*
>>>> *Sadly, these are common intimidation tactics among white nationalists,
>>>> and there are several other victims throughout Florida.  This behavior
>>>> cannot be accepted.  We cannot continue to elevate these people.
>>>> Libertarianism stands for maximum freedom for everyone, universally. We
>>>> dishonor ourselves and our party by enabling liars with wildly divergent
>>>> philosophies, who stand immediately adjacent to neo-Nazis
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_(United_States)>, white
>>>> nationalists
>>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/vinlanders-social-club>, fascists
>>>> <https://johnmhudak.com/2017/07/16/rise-of-the-anarcho-statists-part-iii-augustus-sol-invictus-the-unconquerable-sun-god/>,organized
>>>> criminal syndicates
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaws_Motorcycle_Club>, and domestic
>>>> terrorists <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Front>.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From the comments:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    1. Starchild <http://www.openborders.info/>*July 22, 2017 at 09:26*
>>>>    <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1634719>
>>>>
>>>>    *Joe, do you know which individuals were shouting “white power” at
>>>>    the state convention? Is there video evidence of this? I would hope those
>>>>    individuals are identified and ostracized, and that other Libertarians will
>>>>    make clear to them that there is no room for such racism in the LP. That is
>>>>    not what we are about. If individuals who seek to act in such a manner
>>>>    leave the party, that is not a loss for us but a gain.*
>>>>    2.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    3. Joe Wendt*July 22, 2017 at 12:10*
>>>>    <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1634766>
>>>>
>>>>    *Starchild,*
>>>>
>>>>    *The individuals in question are supports of the current LPF Chair.
>>>>    Although Augustus Invictus, the most prominent of the White Nationalists,
>>>>    has left the party, unfortunately other less prominent White Nationalists
>>>>    are not [only -p] remaining active in the LPF, the Chair is actually giving
>>>>    them positions of authority.*
>>>>
>>>> *Screenshot of Ramsey threatening to knock Wendt’s teeth out and saying
>>>> he may have an “accident”*
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/wp-content/uploads/201
>>>> 7/07/received_10159060778305274.png
>>>> paulie <https://www.facebook.com/paulie.cannoli>July 23, 2017 at 12:04
>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1635134>
>>>>
>>>> Again, it’s not about Joe.* Yes Ramsey threatened Joe, but he also
>>>> threatened many other people, as has Invictus and their other buddies.
>>>> There are numerous sources for that, including me. *Yes, Ramsey has
>>>> spread bullshit about me. I think he is still doing it although I haven’t
>>>> checked lately. Did he know it to be false or did he just repeat what other
>>>> people said? Well, he couldn’t have known it to be true since it was not
>>>> true and he did not say “so and so says” he just repeated things as if they
>>>> were facts and added new ones such as the bullshit about me being a
>>>> terrorist and member of a terrorist groups and the bullshit about me making
>>>> threats against his wife. And again, *these are just examples just as
>>>> the other examples in Stanton’s article are only examples.*
>>>>
>>>> *The real issue is that there is an ongoing pattern as reported by many
>>>> different people of Invictus, Ramsey and their circle of friends issuing
>>>> threats, spreading lies .. to and about many different people .. and
>>>> maintaining ongoing close associations with multiple white supremacist
>>>> groups and violent groups and individuals.*
>>>>
>>>> ....
>>>>
>>>> *Ramsey says “You were awful meek last night punk. Ill see you soon
>>>> though and well see how mouthy you are”* which is clearly physical
>>>> intimidation. Joe is talking shit on the internet but Ramsey says he will
>>>> not do it in person. Why not? Clearly due to threat of physical violence.
>>>> Ramsey follows this up with *“Id be more concerned with the teeth in
>>>> your mouth at this point joe. Your dental plan good?” *which in the
>>>> context of his earlier statement is not exactly a very veiled threat. If he
>>>> was genuinely concerned about Joe slipping and falling due to being drunk,
>>>> which is laughable in the context of the conversation, he would not have
>>>> made the threat so specific.
>>>>
>>>> And the larger context of course is that there have been many other
>>>> threats, to many other people, myself as well as this publication (IPR)
>>>> included.
>>>> Joe WendtJuly 23, 2017 at 13:55
>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1635174>
>>>>
>>>> *To Andy,*
>>>>
>>>> *I have contacted the police. Since it has not progressed beyond
>>>> Facebook, they told me to block him and contact them again if he continues
>>>> the harassing and threatening behavior. They will be called if he threatens
>>>> me again.*
>>>> paulie <https://www.facebook.com/paulie.cannoli>July 23, 2017 at 14:19
>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1635179>
>>>>
>>>> Also, if all of these if all of these violent threats have been made,
>>>> why hasn’t anyone gone to jail? Has anyone even gotten a restraining order?
>>>>
>>>> Don’t be naive. Threats are not always made in a verifiable, provable
>>>> form. I’ve received plenty of threats over the years, including death
>>>> threats, and I have never felt the urge to go to the cops about it. What
>>>> the fuck are they going to do? While they conduct their half assed
>>>> investigation I may get killed or injured or whatever else. Or someone else
>>>> around me.
>>>>
>>>> And one of the people that has been threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and
>>>> friends made a good point. This person said that Ramsey has known contacts
>>>> in law enforcement and that there are known ties between many members of
>>>> law enforcement and white supremacist groups such as the ones Ramsey and
>>>> Invictus have a lot of ties to. So reporting anything to law enforcement
>>>> may actually be cutting your own throat if you get threatened by these
>>>> assholes.
>>>>
>>>> FL: Augustus Invictus campaigns in front of white nationalist skinhead
>>>> music banner
>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-augustus-invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinhead-music-banner/>
>>>>   http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-aug
>>>> ustus-invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinh
>>>> ead-music-banner/
>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-augustus-invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinhead-music-banner/>
>>>> Note: Ramsey also frequently associates with that same banner to this day.
>>>> "Rock Against Communism" may sound like something that libertarians would
>>>> agree with, but in reality it's a well-known neo-nazi front organization
>>>> that no "former" white supremacist (as Ramsey claims to be) would have any
>>>> association with.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism
>>>>
>>>> *The Rock Against Communism movement originated in the United Kingdom
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom> in late 1978 with far right
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right> activists associated with
>>>> the National Front
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Front> (NF).[4]
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-soundtrack-4> It
>>>> was intended to counter the Rock Against Racism
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Racism> organisation.[4]
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-soundtrack-4> The
>>>> first RAC concert was in Leeds
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds>, England
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England> in 1978, featuring the Nazi punk
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_punk> bands The Dentists and The
>>>> Ventz.[5]
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-5> RAC held
>>>> one concert in 1979 and another in spring 1983, which was headlined
>>>> by Skrewdriver <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver>, a white power
>>>> rock <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_power_rock> band led by Ian
>>>> Stuart Donaldson <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stuart_Donaldson>.
>>>> After that, RAC concerts were held more often. They were often headlined by
>>>> Skrewdriver and featured other white power bands, such as Skullhead
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skullhead> and No Remorse
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Remorse_(band)>. In the mid-1980s, summer
>>>> concerts were often held at the Suffolk
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk> home of Edgar Griffin
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Griffin>, a Conservative Party
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)> activist[6]
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-6> and
>>>> father of Nick Griffin <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin>, an NF
>>>> organiser who later became the national chair of the British National Party
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party>. By the late 1980s,
>>>> the RAC name had given way to the White Noise Club (another NF-based
>>>> group), and later Blood and Honour
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Honour>, which was set up
>>>> by Donaldson <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaldson> when they fell out
>>>> with the NF leadership.[4]
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-soundtrack-4> As hardcore
>>>> punk <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_punk> music became more
>>>> popular in the 1990s and 2000s, many white power bands took on a more
>>>> hardcore-influenced sound.*
>>>>
>>>> Note that Ryan Ramsey continues to proudly wave the "Rock against
>>>> communism" banner.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Moulton: ‘LP conventions, avoid alt-right / white supremacist
>>>> event speakers’
>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/chuck-moulton-lp-conventions-avoid-alt-right-white-supremacist-event-speakers/>
>>>>  http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/chuck-moulton
>>>> -lp-conventions-avoid-alt-right-white-supremacist-event-speakers/
>>>>
>>>> More background:
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/alexandria-bro
>>>> wn-response-to-ryan-ramsey-and-timeline-of-events/
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/update-on-rape
>>>> -assault-kidnapping-and-witness-tampering-allegations-agains
>>>> t-augustus-invictus/
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/update-on-augu
>>>> stus-invictus-criminal-allegations-and-retraction-of-censure
>>>> -from-florida-lp-possible-disaffiliation-by-lnc-floated/
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/david-colborne
>>>> -augustus-sol-invictus-is-not-welcome-in-my-state/
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/knppster-were-
>>>> going-to-shut-it-down/
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/knapp-replace-
>>>> lp-of-florida-exec-comm-and-bylaws/
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/paul-stanton-l
>>>> p-florida-chair-marcos-miralles-must-resign/ :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Marcos Miralles began his race for Chair of the LPF with the support
>>>> of Augustus Sol Invictus
>>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/augustus-sol-invictus-austin-gillespie>and
>>>> Ryan Ramsey, both leaders in white supremacist groups, including the
>>>> American Guard
>>>> <https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists>.
>>>>  (The American Guard was one of the groups present in Charlottesville last
>>>> weekend.
>>>> <http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/indianapolis/indiana-american-guard-among-protestors-at-charlottesville-unite-the-right-rally>)
>>>>  Invictus was also a featured speaker at the Charlottesville white
>>>> supremacist rally.
>>>> <http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-augustus-invictus-charlottesville-20170814-story.html>  The
>>>> support has not been one-sided.  Last year, Marcos Miralles provided a town
>>>> hall for Invictus
>>>> <http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article97524342.html> (as
>>>> part of a campaign to stir up drama during the primary), the pictures from
>>>> which are still used by the Miami Herald to associate our party with
>>>> Invictus <http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article167083427.html>.
>>>> Additionally, he proudly displayed Ryan Ramsey’s endorsement on his website
>>>> and appointed Ryan Ramsey <https://docs.lpf.org/meeting/july-16th-2017/> to
>>>> our Legislative Review Committee.  There is no place for white supremacy in
>>>> the Libertarian Party of Florida.*
>>>>
>>>> *Thankfully, there was a recent press release
>>>> <https://lpf.org/2017/08/libertarian-party-florida-first-strongest-voice-hate-filled-groups/> condemning
>>>> the events in Charlottesville.  Unfortunately, Marcos Miralles has refused
>>>> to condemn the white supremacists within our party, or recant his previous
>>>> support.  Instead, he insists that he will “work with everybody” and has
>>>> dismissed worries about white supremacists using our party to support their
>>>> platform as “non sense,” despite the support of the previously-mentioned
>>>> Libertarians, and despite the Libertarian Party of Florida’s representative
>>>> to the Libertarian Party platform committee, Frank Caprio.  Caprio
>>>> regularly makes very racist comments, including quotes white
>>>> supremacist Bob Whitaker
>>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/06/07/bob-whitaker-author-racist-mantra-white-genocide-has-died>.
>>>> I physically cringed when I read Marcos write: “The Libertarian Party of
>>>> Florida will forever remain the safest home for all of those that fight for
>>>> civil rights.”  As one of the Libertarian victims of violent threats and
>>>> harassment (a Muslim mother of biracial children) stated, “The Libertarian
>>>> Party was not a safe haven for me and many others like me.  It should be,
>>>> by principle. […] But that’s not the present day reality.”  Sadly, she
>>>> ended her participation with the party after concerns with the safety of
>>>> her family. When she reached out to Miralles, she was ignored and blocked
>>>> on social media.*
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/knapp-dickey-c
>>>> over-2017-libertarian-party-of-florida-convention/ http://in
>>>> dependentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/knapp-dickey-cover-2017
>>>> -libertarian-party-of-florida-convention/
>>>>
>>>> There were people yelling white power. Larry Sharpe went on an
>>>> alt-right vlog by Ryan Ramsey called the Mad American Network. That group
>>>> was with Invictus in Harrisburg, PA and at least one member, Dave Martel,
>>>> was seen sieg heiling there. Invictus chased someone out of a courtesy
>>>> suite with threats of violence. Invictus was then pushing Paul Stanton
>>>> trying to pick a fight. There was loud applause of his speech where he
>>>> hijacked our convention for five minutes, then just bragged about it…
>>>>
>>>> …our gubernatorial candidate denied Stanton a mic for a privileged
>>>> motion, so that he could procedurally kill a pro-immigration platform plank
>>>> without letting it be read.
>>>>
>>>> Thomas Knapp lost an ad hoc election to the LP platform committee to a
>>>> “constitutional conservative” who once told me, “anti-racist is code for
>>>> anti-white,” Frank Caprio. He’s from the LP of Orange County (Orlando area,
>>>> same as Invictus -p).
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and by the way – no pretend antifa protesters showed up, of course.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/09/paul-frankel-w
>>>> hy-libertarians-need-to-denounce-the-alt-right-and-white-nat
>>>> ionalists-and-dont-need-to-worry-about-libertarian-socialist
>>>> s-and-antifa/
>>>>
>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/lsla-2017-phys
>>>> ically-removed-so-to-speak-making-the-lp-inhospitable-to-the
>>>> -alt-right-and-other-nazis/
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure that's more than enough for now, but there's plenty more. Feel
>>>> free to email or call 205-534-1622 <(205)%20534-1622> to discuss, and
>>>> forward wherever or whenever you wish.
>>>>
>>>> Paul Frankel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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