[Lnc-business] Fwd: [Lnc-votes] Resignation From LPF

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Go to this article:

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 1:10 PM, David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Wes, regardless of whether Invictus and his poorly chosen colleagues were
> bullied, physical threats are not to be tolerated. Note that I am not
> threatening that misguided cartel with physical violence. What I am saying
> as one individual is that if they will not listen to reason and will not
> cease and desist their immoral behavior, I will identify their behavior for
> what it is and refuse to deal with them economically and socially.
>
> That is how Rosa Parks and her friends dealt rather effectively with
> bullying. She sat an example of peaceful civil disobedience that eventually
> succeeded through voluntary economic boycott ostracism.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> ~David Pratt Demarest
>
> On Oct 27, 2017 1:54 PM, "David Demarest" <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 😀 - and the world is a far better place because you are not silent!
>>
>> On Oct 27, 2017 1:46 PM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely not.
>>
>> Strong opposition is not bullying.
>>
>> And is not relevant here.  AI could have been the most persecuted person
>> the world and this situation would still be a problem.
>>
>> I'm not particularly interested in what about thus, what about this, what
>> about this.
>>
>> Libertarians are often so loathe to judge anything that we become
>> complicit in harms done to people in weaker positions.
>>
>> We must stop that if we are going to model a free world in which the many
>> are not lambs to the slaughter.
>>
>> I find it interesting that the discussions keeps turning to me.  It's not
>> relevant.  And only serves to have others who say "well crap I don't want
>> to deal with that" silent.  My many faults don't include being silent.
>>
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:38 PM Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Caryn Ann,
>>>
>>> I've often felt that Augustus Invictus was bullied by libertarians. Do
>>> you think he was bullied?
>>>
>>>
>>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314(202) 333-0008 ext. 232 <(202)%20333-0008>, wes.benedict at lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>>
>>> On 10/27/2017 2:31 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>> Prediction: those who speak out here will be targeted.
>>>
>>> Keeps others from speaking out.
>>>
>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:24 PM David Demarest <
>>> dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree that there are limits to what the LNC can do in this matter.
>>>> What the LNC can do is inspire and empower individual Libertarians to be
>>>> fully informed with a full set of principles and accurate facts so they
>>>> individually use voluntary economic and social ostracism in an appropriate,
>>>> just and effective manner to deal with thinly-disguised authoritarian
>>>> threats exemplified by the nonsense in Florida.
>>>>
>>>> Physical threats are a serious matter that cuts to the core of what
>>>> Libertarianism stands for. Political correctness and ridicule of those who
>>>> take a stand against bigotry is not a principled answer.
>>>>
>>>> Regardless, threats or no threats, memes or no memes, I will speak out
>>>> at every opportunity against mindless bigotry that goes hand-in-hand with
>>>> authoritarianism and nationalism, as I am doing now. We all have a choice
>>>> on how we deal with ethno-nationalism. I hope for the sake of the LP and
>>>> the Libertarian movement that we individual Libertarians choose wisely.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2017 12:52 PM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Larry I don't disagree with you.  That has been my position.  And
>>>>> unless we want to disaffiliate it's like pulling a gun.  Don't do that
>>>>> unless you intend to shoot.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just wanted to be clear that I've been reading material, also
>>>>> comparing it with my past experiences, and then that "response" by Ramsey
>>>>> and I'm not buying that there isn't a problem.  What gets done must be
>>>>> spearheaded by Florida Libertarians.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not fooled IOW.  And honestly I came to the realization of how
>>>>> toxic this may be, particularly to women in the Party, who would leave
>>>>> silently.  I asked myself if I would stick around that.  The answer is not
>>>>> an unequivocal yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I stand by my comments that there is a bullying and threatening issue
>>>>> with the far left as well.  There was a threat to bring ANTIFA to our
>>>>> convention.  There is condemnation of the idea of property ownership and we
>>>>> don't have to look too far into history to see where that leads.  And
>>>>> violence has been discussed.  I see it too.  And believe we have a shameful
>>>>> reluctance to call that what it is.  It's not a matter of equivalency or
>>>>> comparing thresholds of damage.  It's about defending libertarian ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact is that these two sides feed on each other.  The existence of
>>>>> one gives the other propaganda.
>>>>>
>>>>> We must continue to keep on the northward libertarian route.
>>>>>
>>>>> But make no mistake- there IS an ethno-nationalist issue in Florida.
>>>>>
>>>>> Read Ramsey's response.  If you do not see manipulative gas lighting
>>>>> then you lack discernment.
>>>>>
>>>>> If all we can do is personally say to those complaining- yes I see
>>>>> what you are saying.  You are not imagining things- that is valuable.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are a limited power body.  We can resist the urge to think we can
>>>>> or should intervene in everything.  But that does not mean not seeing the
>>>>> thing.  I see it.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:32 AM Daniel Hayes <danielehayes at icloud.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sagely spoken once again my friend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Larry Sharpe <lsharpe at neo-sage.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My two cents,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed and Steven both say leave it alone. So, leave it alone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They may be wrong, but the odds of them being wrong are far lower
>>>>>> than the odds of our meddling making things worse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2017 12:22, "David Demarest" <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with Caryn Ann, there sure is a lot of smoke in Florida. It
>>>>>>> is time to stop pooh-poohing this thinly-disguised bigotry,
>>>>>>> ethno-nationalism and power-grab threat to both Florida and national
>>>>>>> Libertarianism; stop sweeping it under the rug and take a serious look at
>>>>>>> the matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Disagreements on the application of the NAP, while a serious matter,
>>>>>>> are understandable. Disagreements on mindless bigotry and
>>>>>>> ethno-nationalism, however, will be a malignant cancer on the LP and
>>>>>>> Libertarian movement if not addressed promptly and assertively.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I reiterate, not tolerating intolerance is NOT bigotry. Tolerance in
>>>>>>> defense of intolerance is a VICE. This should be a no-brainer to all
>>>>>>> Libertarians. Bigots and ethno-nationalist power-grabbers must not be part
>>>>>>> of our target market. They will only use us to achieve their nefarious
>>>>>>> goals that will undermine our credibility. Like Wes and Nick, I ask
>>>>>>> pseudo-Libertarians who think otherwise to promptly take their political
>>>>>>> business elsewhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We can follow the lead of Nick and Wes and use the tool of voluntary
>>>>>>> individual economic and social ostracism to bring this insidious threat to
>>>>>>> a screeching halt. Disaffiliation, while a last resort, can be an effective
>>>>>>> institutional tool of economic and social ostracism, fully consistent with
>>>>>>> even a strict interpretation of the NAP, to effectively deal with this
>>>>>>> potentially lethal threat to Libertarianism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is time to clean this mindless evil out of the LP and Libertarian
>>>>>>> movement before it gets out of control, impacts our political agenda and
>>>>>>> undermines our heroic goal of freedom, nothing more, nothing less.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2017 9:29 AM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <
>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just read a "response" by Ryan Ramsey and it has all the marks of
>>>>>>>> an aggressive gas lighting campaign.  After I read that letter, my "knower"
>>>>>>>> knew that there are too many testimonies that ring true.  There is a very
>>>>>>>> manipulative game going on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is definitely something very toxic going on in Florida.  I am
>>>>>>>> going to be speaking to my Region 1 Chairs about this as I make my
>>>>>>>> quarterly conferences with them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:52 AM Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If there is clear evidence of (1) a current Florida LP state-level
>>>>>>>>> official making clearly racist statements, or clear and credible threats of
>>>>>>>>> violence, and (2) the Florida LP leadership being aware of this and taking
>>>>>>>>> no action whatsoever to condemn it or distance the Florida LP from it, I
>>>>>>>>> think perhaps a letter of concern from the LNC would be in order. If the
>>>>>>>>> Florida LP leadership offered no reasonable response to such a letter and
>>>>>>>>> continued to not take any remedial action, especially if it became clear
>>>>>>>>> that this was part of a pattern of ignoring racism or serious
>>>>>>>>> Non-Aggression Principle violations from state leaders, then I would be
>>>>>>>>> ready to entertain a motion to disaffiliate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But – and I confess I have not read all the links and background
>>>>>>>>> on this – I'm not sure even the first condition stated above has been met.
>>>>>>>>> My personal belief is that Ryan Ramsey likely does hold bigoted white
>>>>>>>>> supremacist type views, but while the the evidence for this may be
>>>>>>>>> cumulatively compelling (walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc.), it
>>>>>>>>> also seems to be largely circumstantial. I looked at the American Guard
>>>>>>>>> website for instance, and didn't find a "smoking gun" of explicitly racist
>>>>>>>>> material. Now I do think Ramsey's comments about LP chair Nick Sarwark are
>>>>>>>>> reprehensible and without merit. A sample (more at
>>>>>>>>> http://archive.is/EMZPY#selection-233.0-233.110):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *"*Nick Sarwark, National Chairman of the Libertarian Party, is
>>>>>>>>> the poster boy for the Cultural Marxist idiocy that keeps us relegated to
>>>>>>>>> single digit election returns... *Any question as to whether Mr.
>>>>>>>>> Sarwark was a lover of liberty, or a Cultural Marxist attempting to hold
>>>>>>>>> back the advance of the  Libertarian Party, were answered when he made
>>>>>>>>> national news repeating lies about Milo Yiannopoulos, subject of the
>>>>>>>>> violence in Berkley, when he insinuated bloodshed to stop free speech was
>>>>>>>>> 'understandable'... **For those who did not attend the National
>>>>>>>>> Convention last spring in Orlando, let me tell you how Nick Sarwark was
>>>>>>>>> re-elected as LP Chairman. He collected a group of loyalists around himself
>>>>>>>>> to feign running as opposition. Then at the last minute, on the Convention
>>>>>>>>> floor, they dropped their candidacy and threw their support to the man
>>>>>>>>> trying to do the Weimar Republic over, as if the Communists will win this
>>>>>>>>> time. This is why many are starting to  refer to him as 'Nazi Nick',
>>>>>>>>> despite his Jewish religion. His ignorance of history is astounding,
>>>>>>>>> especially considering his heritage. It is an ignorance common among the
>>>>>>>>> products of compulsory government education camps, but unacceptable for
>>>>>>>>> anyone wishing to lead the third largest political party in the greatest
>>>>>>>>> nation on the planet. The smug manner in which the leftist infection tries
>>>>>>>>> to paint President Trump as Hitler is the crowning jewel of their
>>>>>>>>> ignorance. It is time for a quick history lesson on Germany prior to World
>>>>>>>>> War Two. Trump is not Hitler, but people like Sarwark are ushering the next
>>>>>>>>> Hitler in... Behold Nick Sarwark, who claims to lead the party of
>>>>>>>>> individual freedom, as he ushers his own Jewish people toward the boxcars.
>>>>>>>>> Nazi Nick, the ultimate in self hatred."*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even if the rumor about Milo Yiannopoulis planning to "out"
>>>>>>>>> undocumented students during his speech at UC Berkeley, which Yiannopoulis
>>>>>>>>> ultimately did not do and denied intending to do, was false – I'm not sure
>>>>>>>>> it was; I wouldn't be surprised if Yiannopoulis, via associates, was the
>>>>>>>>> source of the rumor, even if he never intended to carry out any such action
>>>>>>>>> – the point is that if student protesters heard the rumor and sincerely
>>>>>>>>> believed it, there's an argument to be made that their use of violence to
>>>>>>>>> stop him from speaking arguably was, to the best of their knowledge at the
>>>>>>>>> time, a legitimate defensive measure designed to prevent people being
>>>>>>>>> forcibly kidnapped and deported by the State. I'm not sure Nick intended to
>>>>>>>>> go that far; the word "understandable" as he used it is somewhat ambiguous
>>>>>>>>> and does not necessarily imply approval.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regardless, any LP member whose views are so badly skewed as to
>>>>>>>>> publish a written public article condemning as solidly libertarian a party
>>>>>>>>> leader as the current LP national chair as a "cultural Marxist" and among
>>>>>>>>> those who is "usher(ing) his own Jewish people toward the boxcars", is not
>>>>>>>>> somebody I personally want serving in the party leadership. Coupled with
>>>>>>>>> the threats that Paul Stanton and Paul Frankel report Ramsey making against
>>>>>>>>> them and against members of Stanton's family, and Ramsey's connections to
>>>>>>>>> groups like Rock Against Communism and the American Guard, if I sat on the
>>>>>>>>> Florida LP Executive Committee and had been voting, I believe I would have
>>>>>>>>> voted to remove Ramsey from that body if such action is consistent with the
>>>>>>>>> Florida LP's bylaws. But I don't know whether there was a bylaws issue, or
>>>>>>>>> why the ExCom majority voted down Paul Stanton's motion for removal. My
>>>>>>>>> suspicion that they may have made what I believe to be a bad decision isn't
>>>>>>>>> enough for me to support the LNC formally weighing in or taking action
>>>>>>>>> vis-a-vis the Florida LP, short of the conditions I describe in the first
>>>>>>>>> paragraph above being met. Short of removal, I don't know what other steps,
>>>>>>>>> if any, they have taken, or may yet take.
>>>>>>>>> But if the LNC does not make any direct formal response to the
>>>>>>>>> Florida situation, this still leaves the question of what else we can do
>>>>>>>>> with regard to the broader issue of ethno-nationalism seeping into the
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian Party. It's been pointed out that the LNC has recently issued a
>>>>>>>>> strong statement against racism and bigotry; the value of issuing another
>>>>>>>>> such statement at this time seems dubious. However while we've recently
>>>>>>>>> addressed the "ethno" aspect of the ethno-nationalist problem, I don't
>>>>>>>>> think we've adequately addressed nationalism, which is much more pervasive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nationalism is itself, I believe, a form of bigotry akin to
>>>>>>>>> racism. It is an anti-individualist philosophy which, translated into
>>>>>>>>> government policy, results in virtually every national government in the
>>>>>>>>> world wrongfully discriminating against people on the basis of innate
>>>>>>>>> characteristics beyond their control (where they were born or who their
>>>>>>>>> parents were). It also tends to lead people to take un-libertarian
>>>>>>>>> positions, such as being willing to initiate force against immigrants,
>>>>>>>>> supporting protectionism, and accepting various rights violations in the
>>>>>>>>> name of "national security". Nationalism can also serve as a cover for
>>>>>>>>> racism, because nationalist and racist views often dovetail when it comes
>>>>>>>>> to issues like immigration, racial profiling in the name of "national
>>>>>>>>> security", the U.S. government killing people in other countries, etc. But
>>>>>>>>> despite being as repugnant as racism, nationalism has so far largely gotten
>>>>>>>>> a pass from society including from many (L)ibertarians. If we are serious
>>>>>>>>> about discouraging the sort of views that are disrupting the Florida LP,
>>>>>>>>> the LNC issuing a strong statement against nationalism seems like a very
>>>>>>>>> good idea, and I would support such a resolution. I think we should also
>>>>>>>>> pay more attention to how our messaging and other practices (e.g. use of
>>>>>>>>> the American flag) can subtly legitimize and reinforce nationalism in the
>>>>>>>>> party.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                                    ((( starchild )))
>>>>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>>>                          RealReform at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>                                  (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>>>>                                     @StarchildSF
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree with Ken.  And the RR from that area gave their input.  I
>>>>>>>>> can tell you no Region 1 state would welcome this interference.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So pre-empttively since we seem so eager to get involved in
>>>>>>>>> affiliates - this RR says don't mess with Region 1 states.  They handle
>>>>>>>>> their own business.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm hoping Oregon gets on mended terms with National.  This isn't
>>>>>>>>> the way to show states we learned our lesson from that mess.  Their Board
>>>>>>>>> voted and unless we think the whole of that leadership are secret nazis
>>>>>>>>> then we have no right or authority to be second-guessing their decision for
>>>>>>>>> their state.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I routinely get complaints about such and such going on here and
>>>>>>>>> there.  I listen, tell them their rights, and say it is for their state to
>>>>>>>>> handle.  Wes brilliant release said what we needed to.  I wish we would say
>>>>>>>>> the same to the violent left.  Violence against persons and property is
>>>>>>>>> unacceptable.  Bigotry and identity collectivism of all kinds is
>>>>>>>>> unacceptable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Ken Moellman <ken at moellman.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A disaffiliation motion is way too extreme.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the statement made by either Wes or Nick - I forget who
>>>>>>>>>> made it - about racism and whatnot being not welcome in the party was
>>>>>>>>>> enough from LP National.  Disaffiliation would take a serious infraction,
>>>>>>>>>> IMO.  That a party has internal issues is nothing new and nothing to get
>>>>>>>>>> involved with.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:19 PM, David Demarest <
>>>>>>>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I agree that a disaffiliation investigation motion would open a
>>>>>>>>>>> can of worms. Perhaps the existing motion calling for a resolution is the
>>>>>>>>>>> wiser choice. However, it is a catch-22. How can we justify the resolution
>>>>>>>>>>> if we do not do the necessary due diligence investigation?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ~David Pratt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom Un-Convention*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <%28402%29%20981-6469>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Home: 402-493-0873 <%28402%29%20493-0873>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Joshua Katz
>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 25, 2017 1:52 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [Lnc-business] Fwd: [Lnc-votes] Resignation From LPF
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you to both Steven, Paul Frankel, and Tom Knapp for
>>>>>>>>>>> inserting much-needed facts into this discussion.  In light of these facts,
>>>>>>>>>>> I think vigilance is called for, but do not think it is appropriate, at
>>>>>>>>>>> this time, to make a relevant motion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I will note, without getting into the weeds, that while I won't
>>>>>>>>>>> quibble with facts alleged about Florida, I would disagree with some of the
>>>>>>>>>>> statements made about certain national groups, or in other ways about the
>>>>>>>>>>> dangerous movement we face.  I think they are more dangerous than they've
>>>>>>>>>>> been described here, and while in the past I considered them individually
>>>>>>>>>>> dangerous, I now consider them to be an organizational threat - and a
>>>>>>>>>>> threat to the modern world which made freedom possible.  (Murray Rothbard
>>>>>>>>>>> pointed out, in 1965, that freedom was made possible by the overthrow of
>>>>>>>>>>> the Ancien Regime, and I think the pre-modern thinking on the right, and
>>>>>>>>>>> the post-modern thinking on the left, are both creating an environment
>>>>>>>>>>> where it can return.)  I consider them, at the moment, the most immediate
>>>>>>>>>>> threat to freedom in our culture, since they have organized and gone beyond
>>>>>>>>>>> being individual cranks - they now are making moves on the world of ideas,
>>>>>>>>>>> which controls the rest.  And remember that far too many people associate
>>>>>>>>>>> us with them.  The Charlottesville morons (if it brings them any comfort, I
>>>>>>>>>>> think I speak on behalf of all Jews when I say that none of us desire to be
>>>>>>>>>>> mouth-breathing bigots carrying tiki torches, so their fears about us
>>>>>>>>>>> replacing them are misplaced) used a banner which was based on the Albany
>>>>>>>>>>> Plan of Union banner - and one of the snake pieces was labeled L.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In any event, as concerns Florida, I think the analysis is
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty straightforward, although the determinations are not.  Is there a
>>>>>>>>>>> problem?  I am convinced there is, and I am convinced we should not ignore
>>>>>>>>>>> it and blind ourselves to it.  Another party tried that approach, as well
>>>>>>>>>>> as "well, we'll bring them along for their votes on the things we agree
>>>>>>>>>>> about," and now is largely unable to get candidates who actually favor its
>>>>>>>>>>> basic ideas through primaries.  The next question, the crucial question, is
>>>>>>>>>>> - can the affiliate fix it?  (A related, but somewhat different question,
>>>>>>>>>>> is whether it wants to.)  I think the answer to that is yes.  There is, of
>>>>>>>>>>> course, a tipping point - a point where rather than try to fix the problem,
>>>>>>>>>>> good people simply leave, and the ability to fix the problem goes away.
>>>>>>>>>>> And good people are, it seems clear to me, leaving.  I still do not think
>>>>>>>>>>> the tipping point has been reached, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At-Large Representative,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>>>>> From: <travellingcircus at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:21 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org" <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>,
>>>>>>>>>>> Independent Political Report <independent-political-report@
>>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com>, "iprtwo at googlegroups.com" <
>>>>>>>>>>> iprtwo at googlegroups.com>, erin.adams at lp.org, Whitney Bilyeu <
>>>>>>>>>>> whitneycb76 at gmail.com>, Joshua Katz <joshua.katz at lp.org>, David
>>>>>>>>>>> Demarest <David.Demarest at lp.org>, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>>> daniel.hayes at lp.org>, Ed Marsh <ednmax at yahoo.com>, Steven
>>>>>>>>>>> Nekhaila <Steven.Nekhaila at gmail.com>, Starchild <
>>>>>>>>>>> sfdreamer at earthlink.net>, Paul Stanton <paul at stanton.name>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> *We defend your rights*
>> *And oppose the use of force*
>> *Taxation is theft*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
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