[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-05: Suspension of Arvin Vohra

Alicia Mattson alicia.mattson at lp.org
Thu Apr 5 02:46:48 EDT 2018


Arvin,

You tell the LNC that you don't actually advocate for violence against the
state or its employees, and here you say something that sounds reasonable
like "the Second Amendment is there to protect us from government."

What you post on social media is quite different, though.  There's no way
to reconcile that with your postings like the following two public examples
on your Facebook account on 03/29/18:

"Hunt government."

and

"Now that I'm on mewe and don't have to worry as much about getting kicked
off facebook:
1. I love automatic weapons.
2. I recommend that you buy automatic weapons.
3. They aren't for hunting deer; they are for hunting the government."

Hunting is not a defensive activity.  The MeWe post was not an isolated
comment, and combined with these two Facebook posts it's all very
disturbing.

You can't fool me into believing these are "jokes".  The two posts above
are not on MeWe where you claim there is a different vibe which allegedly
justified that other post.

I can't believe I just spent the time to even argue this with you, as
though this is a rational discussion...

-Alicia



On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com> wrote:

>    What you've written is false. The joke I made, and admitted was in poor
>    taste, was about attacking a government agency with violence. The
>    "rant" to which you are referring indicates that the Second Amendment
>    is to protect us from government.
>    Perhaps you believe the Second Amendment is about hunting licenses.
>    However, I do not believe that I am the only person in the LP, or on
>    the LNC, who believes that the Second Amendment is there to protect us
>    from government.
>    If the LNC wants to make a statement that the second amendment is not
>    about protecting ourselves from the state, then you wouldn't need this
>    rigamarole. I'd resign from any organization that thought that.
>    However, I strongly doubt that the majority on the LNC, or anyone on
>    the LNC for that matter, believes that gun rights are not about
>    protecting ourselves from the state.
>    -Arvin
>
>    On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>    <[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>
>         Nailed. It.
>
>       On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 11:32 AM Justin O'Donnell
>       <[1][2]justin.odonnell at lp.org> wrote:
>            Arvin,
>            You expressed a dishonest apology. “I’m Sorry, but….” Is a
>            rationalization, not an apology. You deflected the issue at
>    hand
>         and
>            launched into accusations of your own that everyone who was
>    upset
>         with
>            your “joke” wasn’t Libertarian enough to have an opinion.
>            You said “I don’t support actually shooting up a school board”
>         but then
>            went on a rant justifying why someone should be ok with such a
>         course
>            of action. As I explained when I cast my vote, it wasn’t simply
>         your
>            comment that led me to vote in favor of the motion at hand, but
>         rather
>            your response to it, and lack of a sincere apology.
>            You have displayed a persistent inability to accept
>         accountability for
>            the wrong in what you’ve said, and refuse to acknowledge the
>         gravity of
>            your position and how personal posts make in public
>    environments
>            reflect on the organization simply due to the position you are
>         in. Face
>            the facts Arvin, as Vice Chair of this organization, you ARE a
>         public
>            figure, and everything you say, whether personal or political
>         reflects
>            upon this organization, and that is something that needs to be
>            inherently understood by everyone aiming to serve in any
>    capacity
>         of
>            leadership.
>            In the past I have consistently defended the morality and
>         principles
>            behind your statements, even if you lacked the tact to express
>         those
>            opinions in an amicable manner yourself. However, your
>         narcissistic and
>            audacious purism is dangerous and hindering the growth of this
>         party,
>            and any actual advancement towards Liberty in our Lifetimes.
>    How
>         you
>            say things is often much more important than what you say. It
>    is
>            perfectly possible to express radical opinions and beliefs in a
>         manner
>            that encourages independent thought rather than backlash. If
>    your
>            intent is to grow this party, and advance this movement, then I
>         suggest
>            you sincerely take a reprieve to learn a thing or two about
>         marketing
>            and communication, and how to reach people outside your own
>    echo
>            chamber.
>            Justin O’Donnell
>            LNC Region 8 (ME, NH, VT, MA, CT, NY, NJ)
>            Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
>            From: [2]Arvin Vohra
>            Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2018 1:10 PM
>
>              To: [3][2][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>              Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-05: Suspension
>      of
>           Arvin
>              Vohra
>              Since some were not able to see the facebook live video, I
>           uploaded the
>              video to youtube. This is the original video, unaltered.
>              Given that we have at least one LNC member saying that I
>      never
>              apologized,
>              I would like to correct the record:
>              [3][4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=
>      youtu.be
>              On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 9:26 AM, Steve Scheetz
>           <[4][5]steve.scheetz at lp.org>
>              wrote:
>              > I was informed that what I said could be misinterpreted as
>      not
>              voting.
>              >
>              > I vote yes.
>              >
>              > Sincerely,
>              >
>              >
>              > Steve Scheetz
>              >
>              > -----Original Message-----
>
>            > From: Lnc-business [mailto:[5][6]lnc-business-
>    bounces at hq.lp.org]
>         On Behalf
>            Of
>            > Alicia Mattson
>            > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 2:16 AM
>            > To: Libertarian National Committee list
>            > Subject: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-05: Suspension of
>         Arvin
>            Vohra
>            >
>            > We have an electronic mail ballot.
>            >
>            >
>            > *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by April 12, 2018 at
>            11:59:59pm
>            > Pacific time.*
>            > *Co-Sponsors:*  Harlos, Van Horn, Katz, Hayes, Goldstein,
>         Redpath,
>            Hewitt,
>            > O'Donnell
>            >
>            > *Motion:*
>            >
>            > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party holds the non-initiation of
>         force as
>            its
>            > cardinal principle and requires each of its members certify
>         that they
>            > neither advocate or believe in violent means to achieve
>         political or
>            social
>            > goals.
>            >
>            > RESOLVED, that the Libertarian National Committee suspends
>         Arvin
>            Vohra
>            > from his position of Vice-Chair for sustained and repeated
>            unacceptable
>            > conduct that brings the principles of the Libertarian Party
>         into
>            disrepute,
>            > including making and defending a statement advocating lethal
>         violence
>            > against state employees who are not directly threatening
>         imminent
>            physical
>            > harm. Such action is in violation of our membership pledge.
>         These
>            actions
>            > further endanger the survival of our movement and the
>    security
>         of all
>            of
>            > our members without their consent.
>            >
>            > -Alicia
>            >
>            >
>            --
>            Arvin Vohra
>
>              [6][7]www.VoteVohra.com
>              [7][8]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>              (301) 320-3634
>           References
>              1. [8][9]https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>              2. mailto:[9][10]votevohra at gmail.com
>              3. mailto:[10][11]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>         --
>         --
>         In Liberty,
>         Caryn Ann Harlos
>         Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>         Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>      Washington)
>         - [11]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>         Communications Director, [12]Libertarian Party of Colorado
>         Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>         A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>         We defend your rights
>         And oppose the use of force
>         Taxation is theft
>      References
>         1. mailto:[12]justin.odonnell at lp.org
>         2. mailto:[13]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>         3. [14]https://www.youtube.com/watch?
>      v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=youtu.be
>         4. mailto:[15]steve.scheetz at lp.org
>         5. mailto:[16]lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>         6. [17]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>         7. mailto:[18]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>         8. [19]https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>         9. mailto:[20]votevohra at gmail.com
>        10. mailto:[21]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>        11. mailto:[22]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>        12. [23]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>
>    --
>    Arvin Vohra
>    [24]www.VoteVohra.com
>    [25]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>    (301) 320-3634
>
> References
>
>    1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>    2. mailto:justin.odonnell at lp.org
>    3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=youtu.be
>    5. mailto:steve.scheetz at lp.org
>    6. mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>    7. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>    8. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>    9. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>   10. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
>   11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>   12. mailto:justin.odonnell at lp.org
>   13. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>   14. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=youtu.be
>   15. mailto:steve.scheetz at lp.org
>   16. mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>   17. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>   18. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>   19. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
>   20. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
>   21. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>   22. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>   23. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>   24. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>   25. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
   Arvin,
   You tell the LNC that you don't actually advocate for violence against
   the state or its employees, and here you say something that sounds
   reasonable like "the Second Amendment is there to protect us from
   government."
   What you post on social media is quite different, though.  There's no
   way to reconcile that with your postings like the following two public
   examples on your Facebook account on 03/29/18:
   "Hunt government."
   and
   "Now that I'm on mewe and don't have to worry as much about getting
   kicked off facebook:
   1. I love automatic weapons.
   2. I recommend that you buy automatic weapons.
   3. They aren't for hunting deer; they are for hunting the government."
   Hunting is not a defensive activity.  The MeWe post was not an isolated
   comment, and combined with these two Facebook posts it's all very
   disturbing.
   You can't fool me into believing these are "jokes".  The two posts
   above are not on MeWe where you claim there is a different vibe which
   allegedly justified that other post.
   I can't believe I just spent the time to even argue this with you, as
   though this is a rational discussion...
   -Alicia
   On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Arvin Vohra <[1]votevohra at gmail.com>
   wrote:

        What you've written is false. The joke I made, and admitted was
     in poor
        taste, was about attacking a government agency with violence. The
        "rant" to which you are referring indicates that the Second
     Amendment
        is to protect us from government.
        Perhaps you believe the Second Amendment is about hunting
     licenses.
        However, I do not believe that I am the only person in the LP, or
     on
        the LNC, who believes that the Second Amendment is there to
     protect us
        from government.
        If the LNC wants to make a statement that the second amendment is
     not
        about protecting ourselves from the state, then you wouldn't need
     this
        rigamarole. I'd resign from any organization that thought that.
        However, I strongly doubt that the majority on the LNC, or anyone
     on
        the LNC for that matter, believes that gun rights are not about
        protecting ourselves from the state.
        -Arvin
        On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
        <[1][2]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
             Nailed. It.
           On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 11:32 AM Justin O'Donnell

         <[1][2][3]justin.odonnell at lp.org> wrote:
              Arvin,
              You expressed a dishonest apology. “I’m Sorry, but….” Is a
              rationalization, not an apology. You deflected the issue at
      hand
           and
              launched into accusations of your own that everyone who was
      upset
           with
              your “joke” wasn’t Libertarian enough to have an opinion.
              You said “I don’t support actually shooting up a school
   board”
           but then
              went on a rant justifying why someone should be ok with such
   a
           course
              of action. As I explained when I cast my vote, it wasn’t
   simply
           your
              comment that led me to vote in favor of the motion at hand,
   but
           rather
              your response to it, and lack of a sincere apology.
              You have displayed a persistent inability to accept
           accountability for
              the wrong in what you’ve said, and refuse to acknowledge the
           gravity of
              your position and how personal posts make in public
      environments
              reflect on the organization simply due to the position you
   are
           in. Face
              the facts Arvin, as Vice Chair of this organization, you ARE
   a
           public
              figure, and everything you say, whether personal or
   political
           reflects
              upon this organization, and that is something that needs to
   be
              inherently understood by everyone aiming to serve in any
      capacity
           of
              leadership.
              In the past I have consistently defended the morality and
           principles
              behind your statements, even if you lacked the tact to
   express
           those
              opinions in an amicable manner yourself. However, your
           narcissistic and
              audacious purism is dangerous and hindering the growth of
   this
           party,
              and any actual advancement towards Liberty in our Lifetimes.
      How
           you
              say things is often much more important than what you say.
   It
      is
              perfectly possible to express radical opinions and beliefs
   in a
           manner
              that encourages independent thought rather than backlash. If
      your
              intent is to grow this party, and advance this movement,
   then I
           suggest
              you sincerely take a reprieve to learn a thing or two about
           marketing
              and communication, and how to reach people outside your own
      echo
              chamber.
              Justin O’Donnell
              LNC Region 8 (ME, NH, VT, MA, CT, NY, NJ)
              Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
              From: [2]Arvin Vohra
              Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2018 1:10 PM

                  To: [3][2][3][4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
                  Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-05:
     Suspension
          of
               Arvin
                  Vohra
                  Since some were not able to see the facebook live
     video, I
               uploaded the
                  video to youtube. This is the original video,
     unaltered.
                  Given that we have at least one LNC member saying that
     I
          never
                  apologized,
                  I would like to correct the record:
                  [3][4][5]https://www.youtube.com/
     watch?v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=
          [6]youtu.be
                  On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 9:26 AM, Steve Scheetz
               <[4][5][7]steve.scheetz at lp.org>
                  wrote:
                  > I was informed that what I said could be
     misinterpreted as
          not
                  voting.
                  >
                  > I vote yes.
                  >
                  > Sincerely,
                  >
                  >
                  > Steve Scheetz
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Lnc-business [mailto:[5][6]lnc-business-

      [8]bounces at hq.lp.org]
           On Behalf
              Of
              > Alicia Mattson
              > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 2:16 AM
              > To: Libertarian National Committee list
              > Subject: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-05: Suspension
   of
           Arvin
              Vohra
              >
              > We have an electronic mail ballot.
              >
              >
              > *Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by April 12, 2018
   at
              11:59:59pm
              > Pacific time.*
              > *Co-Sponsors:*  Harlos, Van Horn, Katz, Hayes, Goldstein,
           Redpath,
              Hewitt,
              > O'Donnell
              >
              > *Motion:*
              >
              > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party holds the non-initiation of
           force as
              its
              > cardinal principle and requires each of its members
   certify
           that they
              > neither advocate or believe in violent means to achieve
           political or
              social
              > goals.
              >
              > RESOLVED, that the Libertarian National Committee suspends
           Arvin
              Vohra
              > from his position of Vice-Chair for sustained and repeated
              unacceptable
              > conduct that brings the principles of the Libertarian
   Party
           into
              disrepute,
              > including making and defending a statement advocating
   lethal
           violence
              > against state employees who are not directly threatening
           imminent
              physical
              > harm. Such action is in violation of our membership
   pledge.
           These
              actions
              > further endanger the survival of our movement and the
      security
           of all
              of
              > our members without their consent.
              >
              > -Alicia
              >
              >
              --
              Arvin Vohra

                  [6][7][9]www.VoteVohra.com
                  [7][8][10]VoteVohra at gmail.com
                  (301) 320-3634
               References
                  1. [8][9][11]https://go.microsoft.
     com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
                  2. mailto:[9][10][12]votevohra at gmail.com
                  3. mailto:[10][11][13]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
             --
             --
             In Liberty,
             Caryn Ann Harlos
             Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
     (Alaska,
             Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
          Washington)
             - [11]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
             Communications Director, [12]Libertarian Party of Colorado
             Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
             A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
             We defend your rights
             And oppose the use of force
             Taxation is theft
          References
             1. mailto:[12][14]justin.odonnell at lp.org
             2. mailto:[13][15]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
             3. [14][16]https://www.youtube.com/watch?
          v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=[17]youtu.be
             4. mailto:[15][18]steve.scheetz at lp.org
             5. mailto:[16][19]lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
             6. [17][20]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
             7. mailto:[18][21]VoteVohra at gmail.com
             8. [19][22]https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
             9. mailto:[20][23]votevohra at gmail.com
            10. mailto:[21][24]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
            11. mailto:[22]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
            12. [23][25]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
        --
        Arvin Vohra
        [24][26]www.VoteVohra.com
        [25][27]VoteVohra at gmail.com
        (301) 320-3634
     References
        1. mailto:[28]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
        2. mailto:[29]justin.odonnell at lp.org
        3. mailto:[30]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        4. [31]https://www.youtube.com/watch?
     v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=youtu.be
        5. mailto:[32]steve.scheetz at lp.org
        6. mailto:[33]lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
        7. [34]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
        8. mailto:[35]VoteVohra at gmail.com
        9. [36]https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
       10. mailto:[37]votevohra at gmail.com
       11. mailto:[38]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       12. mailto:[39]justin.odonnell at lp.org
       13. mailto:[40]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       14. [41]https://www.youtube.com/watch?
     v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=youtu.be
       15. mailto:[42]steve.scheetz at lp.org
       16. mailto:[43]lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
       17. [44]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
       18. mailto:[45]VoteVohra at gmail.com
       19. [46]https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
       20. mailto:[47]votevohra at gmail.com
       21. mailto:[48]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       22. mailto:[49]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
       23. [50]http://www.lpcolorado.org/

     24. [51]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
     25. mailto:[52]VoteVohra at gmail.com

References

   1. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
   2. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
   3. mailto:justin.odonnell at lp.org
   4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=
   6. http://youtu.be/
   7. mailto:steve.scheetz at lp.org
   8. mailto:bounces at hq.lp.org
   9. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
  10. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
  11. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
  12. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
  13. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  14. mailto:justin.odonnell at lp.org
  15. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  16. https://www.youtube.com/watch
  17. http://youtu.be/
  18. mailto:steve.scheetz at lp.org
  19. mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
  20. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
  21. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
  22. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
  23. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
  24. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  25. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  26. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
  27. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
  28. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
  29. mailto:justin.odonnell at lp.org
  30. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  31. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=youtu.be
  32. mailto:steve.scheetz at lp.org
  33. mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
  34. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
  35. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
  36. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
  37. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
  38. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  39. mailto:justin.odonnell at lp.org
  40. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  41. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voh28CtaZsU&feature=youtu.be
  42. mailto:steve.scheetz at lp.org
  43. mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
  44. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
  45. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
  46. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
  47. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
  48. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  49. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  50. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  51. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
  52. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com


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