[Lnc-business] Motion to suspend Arvin Vohra

Sun Jan 14 19:44:12 EST 2018

I will join in a call for an electronic meeting.

Elizabeth, on the cause thing, I confess I am speaking by gut feeling.  I
don't know the answer only to say I would not be comfortable with an
unspecified cause.  There are members who think we are about to throw
principles under the bus.  And I think we all have slightly different
reasons for our personal positions.

That being said, so far, it is unlikely that Region 1 will support.  I
haven't heard from everyone but I know my region pretty well.  I would hope
that any e-meeting will have an opportunity for public comment.

On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Daniel Hayes <daniel.hayes at lp.org> wrote:

> FYI
>
> [image: image1.jpeg]
> Daniel
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 14, 2018, at 5:18 PM, Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org>
> wrote:
>
> This helps, as Joshua says an "electronic meeting".
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
>
>
> On 2018-01-14 17:57, Joshua Katz wrote:
>
> Considering the time and digital ink that has been spilled, I will join in
> a call for an electronic meeting.  This is the second time this has been
> proposed; let's have a full consideration and reach a decision.
>
> Joshua A. Katz
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> > wrote:
>
>> Elizabeth on reflection I think there are some flaws here.  I was getting
>> ready to email my state chairs about whether or not to co-sponsor at a
>> minimum but there is not enough information.  That section of the Bylaws is
>> "for cause."    I know what my reasons are but they are not everyone's, and
>> I would not put my name to something that might affirm something I do not
>> (such supporting the current state of consent laws or fixing the LNC on a
>> position within that contentious subject on which Libertarians disagree).
>> My concerns are behaviour and judgment.
>>
>> I also think this too weighty for an email.
>>
>> IMHO a meeting should be called.  And the motion IMHO is defective
>> without the cause.
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 12:19 PM, <trent.somes at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-01-14 14:04, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find it very sad that a colleague has brought us to this place with
>>>> his repeated utter lack of judgment.
>>>>
>>>> I do not have my requisite Region 1 support at this time - Region 1 in
>>>> the past had no use for National and I worked my ass to change that.
>>>> Thanks to the incredibly destructive acts of our VC that work is
>>>> crumbling.
>>>>
>>>> If it were solely up to me I would co-sponsor and vote yes.  But I am
>>>> a representative.
>>>>
>>>> God help me, if I were ever this utterly destructive to an
>>>> organization that I would realize this isn't about me and my
>>>> edgelordiness and step down.
>>>>
>>>> Despite the opinion of others or the narrative put forth by Arvin, for
>>>> me, this isn't some moderate squeamishness about Principles.  I hold
>>>> them - and though I think his understanding of how they apply to young
>>>> people is shallow- that isn't the issue.  It is conduct and behavior
>>>> repeatedly unbecoming a leader.  It is not just this incident, it is a
>>>> repeated pattern and refusal to be able to work on a shared vision
>>>> that requires utter selfishness to be put aside.
>>>>
>>>> Things move slow in Region 1 and I don't even expect full answers in
>>>> this short time frame.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:54 AM Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 10:12 AM <steven.nekhaila at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Coming from a State which has been targeted due to individuals
>>>>>> within
>>>>>> and experienced considerable flack for years despite the great
>>>>>> work we
>>>>>> have accomplished, my advice to this body is to not give in to the
>>>>>> lynch
>>>>>> mobs demands, as I do not believe our policies even give us an
>>>>>> avenue to
>>>>>> act, but instead to encourage those who want to change party
>>>>>> leadership
>>>>>> to participate in the 2018 Libertarian National Convention and
>>>>>> elect the
>>>>>> leadership they would like to see in charge. The leadership is a
>>>>>> reflection of the memberships will, if the membership wills to see
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> regime change that is their right, and the most effective way of
>>>>>> carrying that out is to book accommodations to be at the
>>>>>> convention of
>>>>>> the greatest political party in the United States of America and
>>>>>> be a
>>>>>> part of crafting the future of US politics and culture. That
>>>>>> should be
>>>>>> our only response, it is also the most genuine and effective way
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> anyone who wants leadership change to achieve it. Turning our
>>>>>> muzzles at
>>>>>> each other is not the answer and quite frankly our bylaws do not
>>>>>> allow
>>>>>> it (to my knowledge), and even if it did I would not recommend it.
>>>>>> We
>>>>>> must stay united and move business forward until convention,
>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>> participation in the 2018 convention, and stick to our mission.
>>>>>> Everything is else will end up in futility and that is not what
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> body wants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steven Nekhaila
>>>>>> Region 2 Rep Alternate
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt
>>>>>> "Those without power cannot defend freedom"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2018-01-14 10:13 AM, Patrick McKnight wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you Elizabeth. I will co-sponsor this motion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Patrick McKnight
>>>>>>> Region 8 Rep
>>>>>>> Chair, NJLP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018 9:17 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <daniel.hayes at lp.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reality is that people choose to quit.  Arvin doesn't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> them quit. Personal responsibility and all.  He sure is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> encouraging
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the hell out of them though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I sure wish those 50 people got this pissed off at Ohio State
>>>>>>>> Government.  It probably would have save us $100,000
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018, at 8:07 AM, Dustin Nanna <dustin.nanna at lp.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The possibility and reality that he HAS made people quit is why
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> support this motion. That and the 50 or so Ohio members who are
>>>>>>>> completely disgusted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dustin Nanna
>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vice Chair/Deputy Communications Director
>>>>>>>> Libertarian Party of Ohio
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (740) 816-9805 [1]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018 9:05 AM, Dustin Nanna <dustin.nanna at lp.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Motion, not amendment. Typo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dustin Nanna
>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vice Chair/Deputy Communications Director
>>>>>>>> Libertarian Party of Ohio
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (740) 816-9805 [1]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018 9:04 AM, Daniel Hayes <daniel.hayes at lp.org>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In Louisiana, we have been through some legendary infighting.
>>>>>>>> We've seen the wear and tear it puts on people and the
>>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We had a SCC meeting yesterday and I brought the subject of
>>>>>>>> Arvin's latest statement up and asked if we wanted to create
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> response.  The "No" was palpable.  We discussed it further
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> everybody seemed to think that with the convention 5 1/2 months
>>>>>>>> away, allowing the delegates to handle it by not voting for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arvin if
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> he runs again was the way it should be handled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suspect that after a 3 year period of grievances and attempts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> remove people we maybe have a different perspective than others
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What we learned the hard way was the infighting/attempts at
>>>>>>>> discipline was probably much more destructive than anything
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anybody
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> actually did.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I see a LOT of opportunistic and hypocritical behavior going on
>>>>>>>> relative to Arvin.  I find those people whipping up the mob to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the bigger problem.  I think a lot of it likely violates the LP
>>>>>>>> "Pledge".  Attempting to use "force" for political
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gain.  I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't mean people don't have a right to be upset. I just
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> find it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> curious that people that seem to think everyone should have a
>>>>>>>> platform coming out against Arvin, or groups that advocate
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> age of consent laws doing the same.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am also disturbed but not surprised by the lynch mob calling
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arvin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a pedophile/pro-pedophile when he has very clearly stated he
>>>>>>>> definitively opposes pedophilia. This more so applies to people
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> know the distinctions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All that said, I am bothered by what seems to be Arvin's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> desire
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to "purge" the party of the impure.  The possibility that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> he is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> trying to get people to quit is the bigger issue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018, at 7:28 AM, David Demarest
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <david.demerest at lp.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The first stone has been cast.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This motion is not about ideology. It is about the crass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> politics of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> avoiding scaring voters in order to get elected to top-down
>>>>>>>> authoritarian positions and hiding the dictates of one's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> conscience
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'between the sheets' instead courageously proclaiming one's
>>>>>>>> convictions 'on the streets'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This motion will sort out those who have political, ideological
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> moral courage. We will soon see whether the LNC chooses to
>>>>>>>> differentiate the Libertarian Party from the Republican and
>>>>>>>> Democratic parties. The future of the LP could be in the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> balance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will expressly NOT co-sponsor this motion. If it comes to a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> vote,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will proudly, publicly, and emphatically vote "NO"!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Who among you is willing to cast the second stone?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018 4:52 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>>>> <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I make a motion to suspend Arvin Vohra from his position as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chair under Article 6, Section 7 of our Bylaws.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> _______________________________
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Three of the four state affiliate chairs in Region 3 are now
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> backing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this motion. I told Region 3 that I'd need at least 3/4 of the
>>>>>>>> region in accord to make the motion to suspend Arvin.  That
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> percent
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> was reached last night.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I volunteered my time and energy to be a Regional Rep on
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LNC, I didn't do it under the circumstances of, "only if
>>>>>>>> convenient".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm doing this because I care about giving a voice to the many
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> members who are running for office, getting out the vote, and
>>>>>>>> spending their hard-earned money working toward electing
>>>>>>>> libertarians.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are the people that make up the Libertarian Party. It is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> voice that I represent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, it is with calm resolve that I make this motion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
>>>>>>>> Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
>>>>>>>> Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee
>>>>>>>> Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
>>>>>>>> http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Links:
>>>>>>> ------
>>>>>>> [1] tel:(740)%20816-9805
>>>>>>> [2] http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>> If I could co-sponsor, I absolutely would. I've been contacted by more
>>> constituents about this issue than any other issue since I started this
>>> job. Thank you for putting this forward.
>>
>>
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