[Lnc-business] Motion to suspend Arvin Vohra

Daniel Hayes daniel.hayes at lp.org
Sun Jan 14 18:20:47 EST 2018


FYI


Daniel
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 14, 2018, at 5:18 PM, Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
> 
> This helps, as Joshua says an "electronic meeting".  
> 
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2018-01-14 17:57, Joshua Katz wrote:
>> 
>> Considering the time and digital ink that has been spilled, I will join in a call for an electronic meeting.  This is the second time this has been proposed; let's have a full consideration and reach a decision.
>> 
>> Joshua A. Katz
>>  
>> 
>>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>> Elizabeth on reflection I think there are some flaws here.  I was getting ready to email my state chairs about whether or not to co-sponsor at a minimum but there is not enough information.  That section of the Bylaws is "for cause."    I know what my reasons are but they are not everyone's, and I would not put my name to something that might affirm something I do not (such supporting the current state of consent laws or fixing the LNC on a position within that contentious subject on which Libertarians disagree).  My concerns are behaviour and judgment.
>>>  
>>> I also think this too weighty for an email.
>>>  
>>> IMHO a meeting should be called.  And the motion IMHO is defective without the cause.
>>>  
>>> -Caryn Ann
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 12:19 PM, <trent.somes at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-01-14 14:04, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>> I find it very sad that a colleague has brought us to this place with
>>>>> his repeated utter lack of judgment.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I do not have my requisite Region 1 support at this time - Region 1 in
>>>>> the past had no use for National and I worked my ass to change that.
>>>>> Thanks to the incredibly destructive acts of our VC that work is
>>>>> crumbling.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If it were solely up to me I would co-sponsor and vote yes.  But I am
>>>>> a representative.
>>>>> 
>>>>> God help me, if I were ever this utterly destructive to an
>>>>> organization that I would realize this isn't about me and my
>>>>> edgelordiness and step down.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Despite the opinion of others or the narrative put forth by Arvin, for
>>>>> me, this isn't some moderate squeamishness about Principles.  I hold
>>>>> them - and though I think his understanding of how they apply to young
>>>>> people is shallow- that isn't the issue.  It is conduct and behavior
>>>>> repeatedly unbecoming a leader.  It is not just this incident, it is a
>>>>> repeated pattern and refusal to be able to work on a shared vision
>>>>> that requires utter selfishness to be put aside.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Things move slow in Region 1 and I don't even expect full answers in
>>>>> this short time frame.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:54 AM Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 10:12 AM <steven.nekhaila at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Coming from a State which has been targeted due to individuals
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>> and experienced considerable flack for years despite the great
>>>>>>> work we
>>>>>>> have accomplished, my advice to this body is to not give in to the
>>>>>>> lynch
>>>>>>> mobs demands, as I do not believe our policies even give us an
>>>>>>> avenue to
>>>>>>> act, but instead to encourage those who want to change party
>>>>>>> leadership
>>>>>>> to participate in the 2018 Libertarian National Convention and
>>>>>>> elect the
>>>>>>> leadership they would like to see in charge. The leadership is a
>>>>>>> reflection of the memberships will, if the membership wills to see
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> regime change that is their right, and the most effective way of
>>>>>>> carrying that out is to book accommodations to be at the
>>>>>>> convention of
>>>>>>> the greatest political party in the United States of America and
>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>> part of crafting the future of US politics and culture. That
>>>>>>> should be
>>>>>>> our only response, it is also the most genuine and effective way
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> anyone who wants leadership change to achieve it. Turning our
>>>>>>> muzzles at
>>>>>>> each other is not the answer and quite frankly our bylaws do not
>>>>>>> allow
>>>>>>> it (to my knowledge), and even if it did I would not recommend it.
>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>> must stay united and move business forward until convention,
>>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>>> participation in the 2018 convention, and stick to our mission.
>>>>>>> Everything is else will end up in futility and that is not what
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> body wants.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Steven Nekhaila
>>>>>>> Region 2 Rep Alternate
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt
>>>>>>> "Those without power cannot defend freedom"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2018-01-14 10:13 AM, Patrick McKnight wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thank you Elizabeth. I will co-sponsor this motion.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Patrick McKnight
>>>>>>>> Region 8 Rep
>>>>>>>> Chair, NJLP
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018 9:17 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <daniel.hayes at lp.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The reality is that people choose to quit.  Arvin doesn't
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> them quit. Personal responsibility and all.  He sure is
>>>>>>> encouraging
>>>>>>>>> the hell out of them though.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I sure wish those 50 people got this pissed off at Ohio State
>>>>>>>>> Government.  It probably would have save us $100,000
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018, at 8:07 AM, Dustin Nanna <dustin.nanna at lp.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The possibility and reality that he HAS made people quit is why
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> support this motion. That and the 50 or so Ohio members who are
>>>>>>>>> completely disgusted.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dustin Nanna
>>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Vice Chair/Deputy Communications Director
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian Party of Ohio
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (740) 816-9805 [1]
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018 9:05 AM, Dustin Nanna <dustin.nanna at lp.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Motion, not amendment. Typo
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dustin Nanna
>>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Vice Chair/Deputy Communications Director
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian Party of Ohio
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (740) 816-9805 [1]
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018 9:04 AM, Daniel Hayes <daniel.hayes at lp.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In Louisiana, we have been through some legendary infighting.
>>>>>>>>> We've seen the wear and tear it puts on people and the
>>>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We had a SCC meeting yesterday and I brought the subject of
>>>>>>>>> Arvin's latest statement up and asked if we wanted to create
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> response.  The "No" was palpable.  We discussed it further
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> everybody seemed to think that with the convention 5 1/2 months
>>>>>>>>> away, allowing the delegates to handle it by not voting for
>>>>>>> Arvin if
>>>>>>>>> he runs again was the way it should be handled.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I suspect that after a 3 year period of grievances and attempts
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> remove people we maybe have a different perspective than others
>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>> What we learned the hard way was the infighting/attempts at
>>>>>>>>> discipline was probably much more destructive than anything
>>>>>>> anybody
>>>>>>>>> actually did.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I see a LOT of opportunistic and hypocritical behavior going on
>>>>>>>>> relative to Arvin.  I find those people whipping up the mob to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> the bigger problem.  I think a lot of it likely violates the LP
>>>>>>>>> "Pledge".  Attempting to use "force" for political
>>>>>>> gain.  I
>>>>>>>>> don't mean people don't have a right to be upset. I just
>>>>>>> find it
>>>>>>>>> curious that people that seem to think everyone should have a
>>>>>>>>> platform coming out against Arvin, or groups that advocate
>>>>>>> against
>>>>>>>>> age of consent laws doing the same.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I am also disturbed but not surprised by the lynch mob calling
>>>>>>> Arvin
>>>>>>>>> a pedophile/pro-pedophile when he has very clearly stated he
>>>>>>>>> definitively opposes pedophilia. This more so applies to people
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> know the distinctions.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All that said, I am bothered by what seems to be Arvin's
>>>>>>> desire
>>>>>>>>> to "purge" the party of the impure.  The possibility that
>>>>>>> he is
>>>>>>>>> trying to get people to quit is the bigger issue.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018, at 7:28 AM, David Demarest
>>>>>>> <david.demerest at lp.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The first stone has been cast.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This motion is not about ideology. It is about the crass
>>>>>>> politics of
>>>>>>>>> avoiding scaring voters in order to get elected to top-down
>>>>>>>>> authoritarian positions and hiding the dictates of one's
>>>>>>> conscience
>>>>>>>>> 'between the sheets' instead courageously proclaiming one's
>>>>>>>>> convictions 'on the streets'.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This motion will sort out those who have political, ideological
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> moral courage. We will soon see whether the LNC chooses to
>>>>>>>>> differentiate the Libertarian Party from the Republican and
>>>>>>>>> Democratic parties. The future of the LP could be in the
>>>>>>> balance.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I will expressly NOT co-sponsor this motion. If it comes to a
>>>>>>> vote,
>>>>>>>>> I will proudly, publicly, and emphatically vote "NO"!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Who among you is willing to cast the second stone?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2018 4:52 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>>>>> <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I make a motion to suspend Arvin Vohra from his position as
>>>>>>> Vice
>>>>>>>>> Chair under Article 6, Section 7 of our Bylaws.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> ___________________________________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Three of the four state affiliate chairs in Region 3 are now
>>>>>>> backing
>>>>>>>>> this motion. I told Region 3 that I'd need at least 3/4 of the
>>>>>>>>> region in accord to make the motion to suspend Arvin.  That
>>>>>>> percent
>>>>>>>>> was reached last night.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> When I volunteered my time and energy to be a Regional Rep on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> LNC, I didn't do it under the circumstances of, "only if
>>>>>>>>> convenient".
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'm doing this because I care about giving a voice to the many
>>>>>>> LP
>>>>>>>>> members who are running for office, getting out the vote, and
>>>>>>>>> spending their hard-earned money working toward electing
>>>>>>>>> libertarians.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> These are the people that make up the Libertarian Party. It is
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> voice that I represent.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So, it is with calm resolve that I make this motion.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
>>>>>>>>> Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
>>>>>>>>> Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee
>>>>>>>>> Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
>>>>>>>>> http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Links:
>>>>>>>> ------
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>>>>>>>> [2] http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
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>>>> If I could co-sponsor, I absolutely would. I've been contacted by more constituents about this issue than any other issue since I started this job. Thank you for putting this forward.
>>> 
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