[Lnc-business] Latest Libertarian Bruhaha

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

That is political reality.  I will not make excuses for his reckless
answer.

On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 5:52 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net> wrote:

>
> What I'm wondering is, why was Arvin even asked that question? How is his
> response to such a hypothetical even relevant to his or anyone else's
> social media outreach? What purpose did it serve, other than to try to
> create a "Gotcha!" moment that could be used politically? If anything, the
> fact of someone asking him this bothers me more than his response does. If
> he'd said "None of your business", would you have considered that an
> acceptable response Michelle?
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
>                                     ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                          RealReform at earthlink.net
>                                   (415) 625-FREE
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2018, at 9:32 AM, Michelle MacCutcheon wrote:
>
> David,
>
> It's not about not scaring voters, volunteers, etc. though there will be
> extra fallout from this.
>
> It's about him personally saying "probably not" with regards to sex with a
> 14 year old as an adult of what 30?  This is reprehensible.
>
> That is fact and I fail to see how you don't see that.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michelle MacCutcheon
> michellemaccutcheon at gmail.com 513.292.6380 <(513)%20292-6380>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:36 AM, David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Michelle,
>>
>> You again make it explicit that this hubbub is really about avoiding
>> scaring voters to get elected, but at the expense of being honest about
>> principles, the real point that Arvin has made. We are both concerned about
>> losing leaders. You are concerned about losing voters. I am concerned about
>> losing our moral compass and becoming amoral jackasses just like the
>> Republican and Democratic parties that we are supposed to be fighting
>> against.
>>
>> A political party that is strictly focused on getting people elected is a
>> party without a moral compass and a danger to all of us and our way of life
>> and just a another clone of the two disgusting major parties.
>>
>> If the LP continues on the path exemplified by this motion, you may gain
>> some undesirable politicos, but lose the type of moral leaders that created
>> the Libertarian Party in the first place, without which we would not be
>> having this conversation and those suffering from pandemic electivitis
>> would have little chance to pursue opportunistic politically-motivated
>> electoral adventurism.
>>
>> Michelle, thank you for speaking up. Now, back it up with rational but
>> compassionate due diligence.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2018 9:52 AM, "Michelle MacCutcheon" <
>> michellemaccutcheon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> I stayed mostly silent on all the provocateur stuff from Arvin Vohra
>>> despite the fact that I was literally the only one in my whole state in
>>> Field Development leadership at the time (Membership coordinator with no
>>> Director or Deputy of Field Development or Volunteer coordinator) despite
>>> me loosing many new recruits that were going into leadership (veterans).
>>>
>>> Arvin Vohra stated that he would "probably not" when questioned if he
>>> personally would have sex with a 14 year old.  This is not okay in any
>>> manner and is harming recruiting efforts when we are nearing completion on
>>> our ballot access drive in Ohio. This is quite literally going to harm our
>>> candidates and recruiting efforts for membership that he seems to condone
>>> hebophelia(sp?). It is having a direct and negative effect on what  do
>>> every day for the party.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Michelle MacCutcheon
>>> michellemaccutcheon at gmail.com 513.292.6380 <(513)%20292-6380>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 6:59 PM, David Demarest <
>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Caryn Ann, that is to your credit. Even if we disagree on this issue, I
>>>> admire your honesty. Many of the contributors to this discussion could
>>>> learn from your determination to stick to your principles after careful
>>>> rational analysis. That will be the saving grace of the Libertarian
>>>> movement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~David Pratt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom UnConvention - *
>>>> https://OmahaUnConvention.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less, For All People*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>
>>>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder - https://R2FF.org/
>>>>
>>>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>>>
>>>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>>>
>>>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>>>
>>>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>>>
>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>
>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>
>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>
>>>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> David.Demarest at OmahaUnConvention.com
>>>>
>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>>>>
>>>> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org]
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 13, 2018 5:48 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
>>>> *Cc:* Aaron Starr <aaron.starr at lp.org>; Alicia Mattson <
>>>> alicia.mattson at lp.org>; Arvin Vohra <arvin.vohra at lp.org>; Daniel Hayes
>>>> <daniel.hayes at lp.org>; David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>;
>>>> Dustin Nanna <dustin.nanna at lp.org>; Ed Marsh <ed.marsh at lp.org>;
>>>> Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org>; Erin Adams <
>>>> erin.adams at lp.org>; George Syroney <georgeliberty67 at gmail.com>; Harold
>>>> Thomas <harold.thomas at lpo.org>; James Lark <james.lark at lp.org>;
>>>> Jeffrey Hewitt <jeffrey.hewitt at lp.org>; Joshua Katz <joshua.katz at lp.org>;
>>>> Larry Sharpe <larry.sharpe at lp.org>; Michelle MacCutcheon <
>>>> michellemaccutcheon at gmail.com>; Nicholas Sarwark <chair at lp.org>;
>>>> Patrick McKnight <patrick.mcknight at lp.org>; Sam Goldstein <
>>>> sam.goldstein at lp.org>; Sean OToole <sean.otoole at lp.org>; Starchild <
>>>> sfdreamer at earthlink.net>; Steven Nekhaila <steven.nekhaila at lp.org>;
>>>> Steven Nielson <steven.nielson at lp.org>; Tim Hagan <tim.hagan at lp.org>;
>>>> Trent Somes <trent.somes at lp.org>; Whitney Bilyeu <whitney.bilyeu at lp.org>;
>>>> William Redpath <william.redpath at lp.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Latest Libertarian Bruhaha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That we will.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To parallel your thoughts, I don’t allow the fact that there are
>>>> vitriolic opportunistic critics to give me an out to the fact that there is
>>>> legitimate concern.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frankly Arvin has taken cover under that too many times and I may be
>>>> slow too see it and give benefit of the doubt but once seen it cannot be
>>>> unseen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My conscience is to vote yes at this time.  However my promise to my
>>>> Region was to represent them unless it violated my principles.  I would not
>>>> vote no at this time but rather abstain if my region didn’t want a yes.  I
>>>> could change my mind.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But nothing - certainly not Arvin’s behavior- is persuading me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And this is costing me.  Some have decided I am a faux radical and
>>>> anarchist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I campaigned I said my views cross factional lines.  That results
>>>> in everyone being irked at something but I sleep like a baby.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 4:32 PM David Demarest <
>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Caryn Ann,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We will have to agree to disagree about the objective value of Arvin’s
>>>> comments. That is not surprising and healthy among principled Libertarians.
>>>> Contrary to some that are operating on hearsay, I have read and carefully
>>>> analyzed much of Arvin’s comments. He has courageously identified several
>>>> government-imposed moral dilemmas that many Libertarians are not handling
>>>> appropriately because we would starve if we dealt with them in one fell
>>>> swoop. Arvin has done the hard work of rational analysis and expressed
>>>> himself passionately on his rational conclusions. The are many more
>>>> important government-imposed moral dilemmas that have not been addressed
>>>> yet that we Libertarians need to face up to even if we must play with the
>>>> cards dealt to us today and make personal adjustments incrementally.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most of the irrational garbage messages I have seen so far by most
>>>> contributors to this discussion represent passionate expressions with
>>>> little or no rational basis and, even more concerning, the blatant refusal
>>>> to base their arguments on a sound rational footing. To be blunt, I would
>>>> tell those irrational lynch-mob ‘activists’ to get off their intellectual
>>>> backsides and do the hard rational-analysis work that Arvin has done. Then
>>>> we will be in a better position to have serious discussions and get on with
>>>> the Libertarian movement agenda. The current vitriolic level of irrational
>>>> discussion is unacceptable and poorly represents Libertarian values and
>>>> principles. Give outsiders the credit they deserve. They may not agree with
>>>> some of our rational principles because they do not understand them yet.
>>>> However, they can smell political-correctness misrepresentations of
>>>> conscience a mile away and will not be impressed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I will listen carefully to any serious and thoughtful input from Region
>>>> 6 Libertarian activists and beyond. The bulk of the shrill responses I have
>>>> seen so far are disappointing but there have been some less-noticed
>>>> exceptions. However, I will always, always vote my conscience regardless of
>>>> any risk of political capital. I will never cave in to the temptation to
>>>> conserve political capital at the expense my conscience. I could care less
>>>> about reaping political capital rewards and have accordingly
>>>> self-term-limited myself to one term as Region 6 Representative to make
>>>> room for fresh voices that will hopefully always vote the dictates of their
>>>> conscience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have zero respect for those who do not vote their conscience and the
>>>> same goes for those who favor filling the tank with gas and putting the
>>>> pedal to the metal with no thought to a moral-compass steering wheel. That
>>>> will get them somewhere in a hurry but is it really where they want to go?
>>>> I thought that a moral-compass ‘steering wheel’ was what we Libertarians
>>>> were fighting for. Lynch-mob Libertarians need to look themselves in the
>>>> eye and do some serious soul-searching on how they are going to
>>>> differentiate themselves from the duopoly opposition that has no moral
>>>> compass.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hopefully, we are ready to stop wallowing in this disgusting bandwagon
>>>> political-correctness quicksand and move on to more appropriate Libertarian
>>>> initiatives, including addressing some of the legitimate issues that Arvin
>>>> has raised.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~David Pratt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom UnConvention - *
>>>> https://OmahaUnConvention.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less, For All People*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>
>>>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder - https://R2FF.org/
>>>>
>>>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>>>
>>>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>>>
>>>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>>>
>>>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>>>
>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>
>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>
>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>
>>>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> David.Demarest at OmahaUnConvention.com
>>>>
>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>>>>
>>>> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org]
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 13, 2018 4:25 PM
>>>> *To:* David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
>>>> *Cc:* Aaron Starr <aaron.starr at lp.org>; Alicia Mattson <
>>>> alicia.mattson at lp.org>; Arvin Vohra <arvin.vohra at lp.org>; Daniel Hayes
>>>> <daniel.hayes at lp.org>; David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>;
>>>> Dustin Nanna <dustin.nanna at lp.org>; Ed Marsh <ed.marsh at lp.org>;
>>>> Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org>; Erin Adams <
>>>> erin.adams at lp.org>; George Syroney <georgeliberty67 at gmail.com>; Harold
>>>> Thomas <harold.thomas at lpo.org>; James Lark <james.lark at lp.org>;
>>>> Jeffrey Hewitt <jeffrey.hewitt at lp.org>; Joshua Katz <joshua.katz at lp.org>;
>>>> Larry Sharpe <larry.sharpe at lp.org>; Michelle MacCutcheon <
>>>> michellemaccutcheon at gmail.com>; Nicholas Sarwark <chair at lp.org>;
>>>> Patrick McKnight <patrick.mcknight at lp.org>; Sam Goldstein <
>>>> sam.goldstein at lp.org>; Sean OToole <sean.otoole at lp.org>; Starchild <
>>>> sfdreamer at earthlink.net>; Steven Nekhaila <steven.nekhaila at lp.org>;
>>>> Steven Nielson <steven.nielson at lp.org>; Tim Hagan <tim.hagan at lp.org>;
>>>> Trent Somes <trent.somes at lp.org>; Whitney Bilyeu <whitney.bilyeu at lp.org>;
>>>> William Redpath <william.redpath at lp.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Latest Libertarian Bruhaha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David I agree that there are completely panicked responses that are
>>>> irrational or just unlibertarian - that the state is Mommy and Daddy ...
>>>> but not everyone’s are.  And those who are not ARE RIGHT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Arvin is wrong here and is incredibly destructive and doesn’t get to
>>>> shield himself with “muh Principles” / I share them with just as much
>>>> anarchist bona fides as he, and his lack of wisdom, discretion, and
>>>> messaging are utterly inappropriate for a leader of the nation’s third
>>>> largest political party.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m not making “radical” friends with this.  It will cost me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don’t care.  I wasn’t elected to protect myself or my friends but
>>>> this Party.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was one of the long-suffering before.  I have forbearance and
>>>> patience.  I’m done.  And the completely disrespectful and patronizing
>>>> email last night by him to this list was the final evidence.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My opinion is clear.  He should resign.  However my *vote* depends on
>>>> my region.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 3:03 PM David Demarest <
>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Caryn Ann,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your response and inclusion of rationality in this
>>>> discussion. Now we are getting somewhere, but there is much work left to
>>>> do. My underlying point is that if we Libertarians intend to present a
>>>> rational face both internally and to the broader audience, it is high time
>>>> to put the rational ‘horse’ before the passionate emotional response
>>>> ‘cart’. Reason without heart and heart without reason is a false dichotomy.
>>>> The real question is which comes first. I am a passionate Libertarian but
>>>> only after doing up-front rational due-diligence analysis. Our primary
>>>> means of survival is our rational capacity. I never cease to be amazed at
>>>> Libertarians who dismiss our rational capacity and resort to the vitriolic
>>>> nonsense that we have witnessed in this latest ideological fiasco.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You will notice that Arvin’s ‘inflammatory’ comments are all about
>>>> rational analysis and his passionate responses AFTER arriving at his
>>>> rational conclusions. I can understand that some disagree with some of his
>>>> rational analysis. However, when their responses and calls to lynch mob
>>>> action are conspicuously if not entirely devoid of anything remotely
>>>> related to rational analysis, pardon me, but I am totally unimpressed and
>>>> disappointed. Caryn Ann, you have done a better job, but several issues
>>>> bear further rational examination.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If reasoned logical and rational conclusion make the job harder to get
>>>> elected to top-down authoritarian positions, that raises a huge red flag
>>>> and the question of what comes first. If getting elected takes precedence
>>>> over accurate representation of the dictates of one’s conscience, we
>>>> obviously have a fundamental ethical dilemma, exacerbated, of course, by
>>>> our current cronyism-riddled non-competitive form of governance. I find the
>>>> notion of determining the dictates of one’s conscience by taking a popular
>>>> poll both morally offensive and ethically indefensible. I am totally
>>>> unsympathetic to the evil notion of making one’s dictates of conscience
>>>> subservient to get elected to top-down authoritarian positions in our
>>>> cronyism-riddled and corrupt electoral system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Per our earlier discussion, I can see the similarity between possession
>>>> of black-market child pornography and the possession of black-market stolen
>>>> goods. However, the bigger concern from my perspective is how we handle our
>>>> disapproval, i.e., whether by oppressive, arbitrary and corrupt government
>>>> enforcement, lynch mob justice or the far more powerful and effective
>>>> long-term means of thoughtful economic and social ostracism or
>>>> reinforcement feedback as appropriate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have seen many vitriolic, hysterical and lynch-mob responses to the
>>>> current bruhaha just as we did on the earlier hubbubs last year about
>>>> Satan-gate and putting the military and public-school teachers on
>>>> inappropriate pedestals. I hate to say this, but we Libertarians have a
>>>> long way to go. Are we capable of fixing the underlying problems? Yes! Do
>>>> the current brute-force responses to this ruckus have us headed in the
>>>> right direction. No!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It might surprise some, but fortunately there have been some rational
>>>> responses to Arvin’s rational approach to these important
>>>> government-imposed moral-dilemma questions. You must look hard to find them
>>>> under the current vitriolic mindless smoke screen, but they are there. Just
>>>> as the principled Libertarian ideas that led to the creation of the
>>>> Libertarian Party, reflected in our Statement of Principles, were scorned
>>>> by most back in 1971, now is the time for the next step to re-rationalize
>>>> our current Libertarian ideological principle base beyond mere crass
>>>> emotionalism and thoughtless lynch-mob mentality.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would point out again that these bruhahas appear to be primarily and
>>>> directly related to electoral concerns. I would submit that those
>>>> false-dichotomy electoral concerns will get relegated to insignificance
>>>> when entrepreneurs build private replacements for government overreach
>>>> social services. If you have a choice of who you buy social services from
>>>> free of government social service monopoly interference, that choice will
>>>> set the stage and inspire the election of Libertarians to all levels of
>>>> government, starting from the bottom up, to provide for the necessary
>>>> regulatory relief.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Enough of this mindless rationality-rejecting lynch-mob vitriolic
>>>> fiasco. Let’s get on with using our heads for what they were designed for,
>>>> namely passionate responses AFTER thoughtful due-diligence analysis, not
>>>> before.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Caryn Ann, your injection of the fresh air of rationality into this
>>>> bruhaha is a step in the right direction. Keep up the good work!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~David Pratt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom UnConvention - *
>>>> https://OmahaUnConvention.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less, For All People*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>
>>>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder - https://R2FF.org/
>>>>
>>>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>>>
>>>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>>>
>>>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>>>
>>>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>>>
>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>
>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>
>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>
>>>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> David.Demarest at OmahaUnConvention.com
>>>>
>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>>>>
>>>> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Caryn Ann Harlos [mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org]
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:52 PM
>>>> *To:* David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
>>>> *Cc:* Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>; Michelle MacCutcheon <
>>>> michellemaccutcheon at gmail.com>; George Syroney <
>>>> georgeliberty67 at gmail.com>; Harold Thomas <harold.thomas at lpo.org>;
>>>> Erin Adams <erin.adams at lp.org>; Whitney Bilyeu <whitney.bilyeu at lp.org>;
>>>> Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein at lp.org>; Tim Hagan <tim.hagan at lp.org>;
>>>> Daniel Hayes <daniel.hayes at lp.org>; Jeffrey Hewitt <
>>>> jeffrey.hewitt at lp.org>; Joshua Katz <joshua.katz at lp.org>; James Lark <
>>>> james.lark at lp.org>; Ed Marsh <ed.marsh at lp.org>; Alicia Mattson <
>>>> alicia.mattson at lp.org>; Patrick McKnight <patrick.mcknight at lp.org>;
>>>> Dustin Nanna <dustin.nanna at lp.org>; Steven Nekhaila <
>>>> steven.nekhaila at lp.org>; Steven Nielson <steven.nielson at lp.org>; Sean
>>>> OToole <sean.otoole at lp.org>; William Redpath <william.redpath at lp.org>;
>>>> Nicholas Sarwark <chair at lp.org>; Larry Sharpe <larry.sharpe at lp.org>;
>>>> Trent Somes <trent.somes at lp.org>; Aaron Starr <aaron.starr at lp.org>;
>>>> Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org>; Arvin Vohra <
>>>> arvin.vohra at lp.org>; David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Latest Libertarian Bruhaha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi David, I can assure you I am not betraying the dictates of my
>>>> reason.  Reason without heart is inhuman.  Heart without reason is base
>>>> animalism.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do I believe in freedom of speech and expression?  Do I think the
>>>> overwrought reactions to nudity are downright nonsensical?  Does that mean
>>>> I must think James Weeks was a courageous voice?  No.  Because it was
>>>> foolish, counterproductive, and violated others.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just because someone might have something "Libertarian" they are saying
>>>> in there somewhere (i.e. arbitrary age of consent laws are collectivist -
>>>> note that doesn't mean they can't generally get it right - generalizations
>>>> can be true because they have some truth or no one would buy them) doesn't
>>>> mean they are a courageous hero.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In fact, rather than being a beacon of light, Arvin is actively harming
>>>> the presentation of core libertarian values by providing a plentiful target
>>>> for which the principle can be scapegoated.  His awful presentation of
>>>> issues surrounding the military, education, welfare, etc have given the
>>>> opponents of libertarian principles, both within and without, a way to
>>>> smear to the principles with the messenger.  We may not like that such can
>>>> be easily done.  But if wishes were fishes we would all cast nets.  As for
>>>> me, I don't live on wishes and unicorns.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Arvin is affecting me personally.  He is making my life, my job, and my
>>>> presentation of liberty harder.  That is not heroic.  That is an obstacle.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have sent out an inquiry to the Regional Chairs today to see their
>>>> thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Personally, this is my position.  I think Arvin should resign.  This
>>>> has gotten ridiculous.  Alternatively, the delegates can make their choice
>>>> in July.  But a lot of damage is done between then and now.  To put his
>>>> peers and associates in the position of having to vote to censure or remove
>>>> is an incredibly selfish and belligerent move.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The "response" last night to the LNC list was a perfect example of the
>>>> tone-deaf tactic.  A member responded that it seemed to them like
>>>> gaslighting.  And as someone who has been involved in very manipulative
>>>> relationships, they hit the nail on the head.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Enough is enough.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And what he is doing is going to lead precisely to what he is saying he
>>>> is "saving us from" (newsflash, we didn't elect a messiah)- worse
>>>> candidates that do not stick to principles because we have modeled them in
>>>> the worst possible way and made the liberating beauty of freedom repulsive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you want the party to take a hard turn towards unprincipled
>>>> "centrism"? This is how you get it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 9:36 AM, David Demarest <
>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Damn. I was looking forward to a visit tomorrow to a neighboring state
>>>> LP business meeting to publicize the rapidly approaching NOLA National
>>>> Convention and Omaha Roads to Freedom UnConvention. Halleluiah, now I can
>>>> use the possible snowy roads as an excuse to avoid the inevitable fallout
>>>> from the latest Libertarian ruckus that will likely dominate the business
>>>> meeting. However, that would be the coward’s way out. Furthermore, I had a
>>>> dream just before waking up this morning that has changed my perspective.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> First a little background behind the dream I am about to narrate. I
>>>> belong to the Alternative Book Club (ABC), which is a spinoff from
>>>> Toastmasters focused on collaborative non-fiction books, most notably their
>>>> ‘*Spotlight on the Art of …*’ series. My first published article was
>>>> the ‘*Big Picture Significance*’ chapter in their latest release, ‘*Spotlight
>>>> on the Art of Significance*’. I recently had to take a hiatus from
>>>> Toastmasters and the book club until after I leave First Data on March 2
>>>> nd, launch my writing career, get the Roads to Freedom Foundation off
>>>> the ground, and get through the exciting crush of 2018 Libertarian events,
>>>> including several state conventions, LSLA national conference, Omaha Roads
>>>> to Freedom UnConvention, Porc Fest, NOLA National LP Convention, and
>>>> Freedom Fest. Whew!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today, however, I am happy to report that my dream this morning,
>>>> clearly prompted by the latest Libertarian hubbub, has changed my outlook
>>>> on this controversy and my inclination to stay at home tomorrow. I do not
>>>> mysticise the value of dreams. Nevertheless, they likely appear to be a
>>>> reaction to internal conflicts complicated by random associations that
>>>> often provoke new perspectives and happily generate seeds for future
>>>> writing projects. Even though many of my ideas are a bit controversial for
>>>> the Alternative Book Club, my dream this morning revolved around the book
>>>> club analysis, assimilation and development of possible solutions to the
>>>> latest Libertarian bruhaha and incorporation of them into a new
>>>> collaborative book titled ‘*Spotlight on the Art of Solving
>>>> Libertarian Bruhahas*’. J
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As best I can recall, my dream focused on the passionate but logical,
>>>> objective and courageous voice of reason rising above the wilderness of
>>>> pile-on band-wagon political-correctness, over-dramatized reactions and
>>>> subjective emotion-based shrill howl of the mob. Dreams, of course, are
>>>> typically exaggerations of reality. What particularly struck me in my dream
>>>> were the mob mutterings of “I don’t trust others (voters and other
>>>> Libertarians) to take care of their own feelings” and “I don’t trust myself
>>>> to take responsibility for my own feelings”. Two other things stood out in
>>>> my dream. One was the almost universal preponderance of mob concerns that
>>>> reflected their fear of scaring off voters and losing votes in their drive
>>>> to gain elected authority over others that prompted them to misrepresent
>>>> the dictates of their conscience in a desperate search for votes. The other
>>>> was the incessant blaming of a controversial figure as a misrepresentation
>>>> of their own self-doubts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am sure my random dream associations stemmed in part from the
>>>> valuable conflict resolution, stress management and negotiation training
>>>> under the banner of assertive behavior counseling that was a turning point
>>>> in my life and helped me through a ‘mid-life crisis’. Just as important, my
>>>> earlier assertiveness training taught me that sitting around blaming
>>>> controversial figures for my personal intellectual discomforts was
>>>> particularly unconstructive behavior and did little to resolve either my
>>>> personal internal conflicts or the controversy whose source I was using as
>>>> a scapegoat for my personal shortcomings and self-esteem/self-image issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You know, I feel better already knowing that my dream unjustly
>>>> characterized many Libertarians. Armed with that realization, I am prepared
>>>> to risk the snowy roads to Kansas City tomorrow and enjoy the company of
>>>> rational Libertarians as we celebrate Libertarian victories and prepare for
>>>> tremendous progress in 2018.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am sure the mob will have fun with my dream. Nevertheless, I hope it
>>>> serves to help point this controversy in a different and more rational
>>>> direction.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~David Pratt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom UnConvention - *
>>>> https://OmahaUnConvention.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less, For All People*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>
>>>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder - https://R2FF.org/
>>>>
>>>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>>>
>>>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>>>
>>>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>>>
>>>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>>>
>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>
>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>
>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>
>>>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> David.Demarest at OmahaUnConvention.com
>>>>
>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>>>>
>>>> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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