[Lnc-business] New email list problem
Daniel Hayes
daniel.hayes at lp.org
Mon Jan 22 09:15:34 EST 2018
I didn’t get the email either.
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 22, 2018, at 12:05 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>
> It isn't a subscription thing, I think some people have saved an old
> mail list that is manually typed from the last LNC roster. That has
> been updated everywhere that I know of.
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 10:25 PM, Elizabeth Van Horn
> <[1]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>
> I only see the email from Alison, when an LNC member replies. There
> seems to be an old list that people are sending to, and I'm not on
> it. (I suspect Dustin Nanna isn't either.) If that could also be
> corrected that would be great.
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
>
> On 2018-01-21 22:27, Starchild wrote:
>
> As originally written, my message below included some boldface and
> italicized text, but that information seems to have been somehow
> automatically deleted from what has reached the list. Some dashes
> also
> seem to have been converted into gibberish, and a number in brackets
> (e.g. "[1]") has mysteriously appeared in front of every email
> address
> or web link that I included in my email.
> I am guessing these new issues may be related to Ken
> Moellman's
> continuing efforts to fix another problem which was discussed during
> the last IT Committee meeting after again being brought to my
> attention by LP member Chuck Moulton (the fact that some messages
> posted to the LNC list have been showing up in the online list
> archives with visible HTML code, making them difficult to read), and
> so am copying Ken to make him aware of this latest problem.
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> [2]RealReform at earthlink.net
> (415) 625-FREE
> On Jan 21, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Starchild wrote:
>
> Thank you for your reply, Alison. Like Caryn Ann, I'm glad to
> hear you
> say that the reporter got it wrong and you do not support
> legislation
> to punish local governments for not cooperating with federal
> anti-immigrant enforcement efforts.
> Since you describe yourself as an anarcho-capitalist, I presume
> you
> consider all government laws to be fundamentally immoral and
> illegitimate, but given the evident confusion with what was
> reported,
> the Saratoga Herald-Tribune will probably want to hear a more
> specific
> disclaimer before publishing a correction.
> I realize you're busy with your campaign and have asked for help,
> so if
> you will give me just a quick written statement clearly affirming
> that
> you oppose efforts to ban or crack down on "sanctuary cities" in
> Florida, such as the legislation described
> at [1][3]http://floridapolitics.com/archives/248759-sanctuary-city
> -ban-bil
> l-makes-comeback, I will pass the information along and work on
> getting
> the paper to correct their story for the record, so that neither
> your
> campaign nor the libertarian position on immigration are
> mischaracterized.
> I already left a voicemail for the reporter, Zac Anderson [he's at
> [4](941) 361-4836, or email [2][5]zac.anderson at heraldtribune.com],
> giving him
> the heads-up that his story apparently got your position wrong and
> asking him to call me back. According to the paper's website, he
> is
> their political editor as well as a reporter, so I'm guessing he
> has
> authority to address the issue himself and didn't attempt to
> contact
> another editor.
> * * *
> Regarding the immigration issue in general, here is some
> information I
> hope you or other Libertarian candidates may find helpful when
> communicating with the press or members of the public on this
> topic in
> the future...
> Except with regard to the importation of slaves after 1808, the
> Constitution does not give Congress any authority to control
> immigration (who enters one of the states), only naturalization
> (the
> process of becoming a U.S. citizen). This is reflected by the fact
> that
> for the first century or so of U.S. history (until 1875), there
> were no
> federal statutes restricting entry to the United States (see
> [3][6]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_immig
> ration_laws
> ). Even today, being in the country without government permission
> is
> considered by the authorities to be a civil offense, like getting
> a
> parking ticket, not a criminal offense (see e.g.
> [4][7]http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2017/mar/15/
> florida-con
> ference-catholic-bishops/being-united-states-unlawfully-crime/).
> However, as the scope and power of the federal government
> expanded,
> politicians felt less and less constrained by the Constitution and
> began to increasingly stretch and violate it in various manners.
> Sadly,
> government courts have largely acquiesced to most of these power
> grabs,
> so most people today do not realize that like the federal
> anti-drug
> laws, the federal regulation of products and services by myriad
> agencies, the federal "ownership" of large tracts of land in many
> states, etc., federal immigration laws are unconstitutional and
> therefore illegal.
> Morally speaking, of course, it doesn't much matter whether a bad
> law
> is "legal" or not. Plenty of horrific abuses committed by
> government
> authorities throughout history have been perfectly legal according
> to
> the laws enacted by themselves or their colleagues. But since many
> people have been taught to automatically view the law as a good
> thing
> (for an enlightening discussion of this, I highly recommend
> watching
> the speech Larken Rose gave at an Independence Day rally a few
> years
> ago, online at [5][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWnBmoFiGQ),
> being
> able to explain how you are not advocating lawbreaking when you
> stand
> up for the rights of undocumented migrants, but in fact upholding
> the
> highest law of the land, can be useful when when you are asked
> your
> position on "enforcing the law", "illegal" immigration, etc.
> One final point � you didn't say in your reply whether the
> reporter's
> comments that you "argu(ed) that undocumented immigrants present
> potential health and public safety problems" were also inaccurate,
> but
> if you did say anything along those lines, I would strongly urge
> you to
> avoid such comments in the future. Virtually anyone can be
> accurately
> said to represent a potential public health or safety problem (you
> or I
> might potentially get sick, or do something unsafe in public!),
> but the
> law should never criminalize or discriminate against people on
> such
> vague grounds � no one should be detained without probable cause
> to
> suspect that a particular individual poses a credible threat to
> public
> health or safety. The mere fact of being undocumented does not
> make
> anyone a threat to public health or safety.
> Good luck out there on the campaign trail, and don't forget that
> electoral victory is only a small part of the battle � your
> ability to
> advance the cause of freedom as an elected official will largely
> depend
> on your ability to articulate and defend the libertarian message
> to
> your constituents and colleagues whose support you will need in
> order
> to be an effective legislator and get pro-freedom changes enacted
> while
> blocking attempts to expand the size, scope, cost, and power of
> government!
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> [6][9]RealReform at earthlink.net
> (415) 625-FREE
> P.S. � I'm copying Florida LP member Ryan Ramsey on this email
> since he
> wrote separately to members of the LNC regarding my initial
> message
> about the Herald-Tribune article; I'll try to respond to him
> separately
> later, but am behind on constituent email lately.
> On Jan 21, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> Thank you Alison that is why I wanted to hear directly from you.
> Now go knock them dead. Figuratively of course.
> -Caryn Ann
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 3:27 PM Alison Foxall
> <[7][10]alison at foxallforflorida.com> wrote:
> To whom this may concern:
> "Legislation that would punish local governments that don�t
> fully
> cooperate with federal immigration authorities drew support from
> Libertarian Alison Foxall and criticism from Democrat Margaret
> Good..."
> I never said I supported legislation to punish local governments.
> Further, "drew support....and criticism" never happened because
> the
> audience didn't clap for either candidate. The journalist, Zac
> Anderson, definitely got those points wrong. He never directly
> quoted
> me except when I said it was a hot-button issue and I don't know
> why
> (continue reading to see why I said that).
> I oppose the top-down approach from the state of FL forcing local
> governments to enforce federal immigration laws. The GOP continues
> to
> push this. Something to note: our local law enforcement and the
> majority of our constituents here in Sarasota support legal
> immigration
> and do not want their city or county turned into a haven for
> "undocumented" peoples, so they have chosen to enforce federal
> laws.
> As a candidate for FL state house representative, in my opinion,
> it is
> wise to have a working relationship with existing local elected
> officials and despite what happens in different areas of the
> country,
> our Sherrif here in Sarasota is well-liked and supports the second
> amendment and an armed citizenry. I support the Sherrif and the
> City
> Council� and ultimately the rest of the community's decision to
> enforce
> the law. It is, after all, what the constituency wants and why the
> Sherrif has been at his station, continuously elected for the last
> 10
> years.
> A question that often comes up, much more so than talking about
> the
> issues, is "how will you work with the old guard in Tallahassee
> [the
> Capital]?". Voters are legitimately considering how a Libertarian
> Representative would work within the Republican majority and
> Democratic
> minority. Voters are curious if I will be able to form alliances
> or
> alienate myself in the House. Something they clearly don't want is
> alienation.
> Even though I support the decisions of my constituents and their
> own
> local governance, I under no circumstance would vote at the state
> level
> to make counties or cities enforce federal immigration laws. That
> is up
> to local governments. In Florida, we have "home rule" laws and the
> state should not be imposing their will onto local municipalities.
> It
> is written in our state constitution. I would have very little to
> do
> when it comes to immigration issues which is why it is not present
> on
> my website. I've knocked on thousands of doors and out of all
> those
> people I have spoken to, none have ever brought up immigration.
> None.
> Sarasota does not face an "illegal" immigration "problem".
> So, why was it asked at a League of Women voters event? Because
> the GOP
> sent scare tactic mailers to almost all voters in the district in
> late
> December to drum up voter turnout in a special election to vote
> against
> the Democrat. They employed the same tactic early last year in a
> city
> council election. The GOP lost. Badly. Since December when that
> first
> mailer went out, immigration questions have only come up twice in
> public appearances. The Democrats in Sarasota on the city council
> have
> no interest in ceasing to enforce federal immigration laws, but
> the GOP
> is blowing the issue out of proportion as if it's something they
> want.
> Personally, I am not enthusiastic about the issue (neither are the
> DEM's here) and it's not something I go around talking about to
> solicit
> votes. My platform is largely economic and energy based, with
> highlights about restoring rights to felons that have finished
> their
> sentences and ending the drug war to help end the opioid crisis in
> our
> area, as well as jumpstart a hemp industry in our state.
> Sarasota is not like most places. 62% of its income comes from
> dividends, interest, and social security payouts. That will tip
> you off
> to the demographics here: older retirees. And when I say older, I
> mean
> really older, from the Silent Generation. We have more deaths in
> Sarasota than we do births. At least 10% of people here remember
> growing up during the great depression. A third of the population
> grew
> up and lived through WWII. Nearly everyone remembers the start of
> the
> Cold War, the wonders of the new space program, and Kennedy's
> assassination. People talk about some of these events as if they
> happened just a few years ago. The things they care about are what
> I
> care about. I'm trying to become their representative, after all.
> The libertarian facebook firing squad is a distraction from our
> goal of
> reducing government. We are nowhere near even my stepping stone
> dream
> of very limited government. Immigration laws need massive reform
> at the
> federal level and how we get there is not through me or the seat
> I'm
> trying to win. I became a Libertarian in 2014 when Adrian Wyllie
> made
> the call to change my party registration. At the time I was
> non-partisan and a self-described anarcho-capitalist (hence the
> strong
> platform about economic freedom). I believed that political
> parties
> were a big part of the problems our country is facing and resisted
> joining for some time. But after seeing the injustice of debate
> exclusion that Wyllie faced in Florida, and the possibility of the
> Libertarian Party becoming a major party by reaching 5% threshold
> of
> registered voters, I took a leap of faith and joined "the
> collective"
> of big-L Libertarians in Florida and I haven't looked back since.
> I
> figured I might as well be a part of the change, instead of not
> participating at all.
> Our campaign has received a ridiculous amount of mainstream media
> attention locally. TV and printed news is the preferred news
> consumption platform for our audience, and we've gotten a lot of
> it.
> Yesterday, the local news station came out to our canvassing
> assembly
> before we hit the streets. I am meeting with TV, radio, and news
> journalists every day this week. January 30th we will be in the
> televised debates and it is anticipated to be one of the most
> watched
> things on local television this year. I've attached some coverage
> that
> ran in this mornings paper. My photo is front and center. The
> article
> mentions we are a big wild card, campaigning aggressively, and
> could
> draw significant support. These are the kindest things a news
> journalist have said about a Libertarian campaign I've ever read
> about
> in Florida. This is our chance to win.
> I implore you all to help drum up support to win this seat instead
> of
> hampering it. We have huge momentum here on the ground, and we've
> already broken fundraising records for a FL Libertarian State
> House
> campaign in a special election, and are about $1,800 away from
> breaking
> the overall amount raised in any FL Libertarian State House
> campaign.
> We are making history and smashing through records from nearly 15
> years
> ago. Libertarians in Florida are on the rise.
> As this email took an absorbent amount of time to write, if you
> have
> follow-up questions, please give me a call: [11]941-840-0369. My
> time needs
> to be spent very wisely from now until election day on February
> 13th.
> This is the home stretch, the culmination of months and thousands
> of
> hours of work. I'm running to advance our movement, to grow our
> party,
> and most of all to have Libertarian representation in our state.
> The
> opportunity to win is dangling in front of us, ripe, and ready for
> the
> taking. The question is: do you really want it as much as I do?
> [f18dQhb0S7ks8dDMPbW2n0x6l2B9gXrN7sKj6v4dZ0vW4WJ4Tb3MPpWYN65
> jGX-d3_yKW9
> jlCX31k1H6H0?si=4861442635857920&pi=0300150b-276f-4cc8-
> b606-39637f4
> 6a075&ti=undefined]
> Thank you,
> Alison Foxall
> Libertarian Candidate for FL House District 72
> Special Election, February 13th, 2018
> Volunteer Today: [8][12]foxallforflorida.com/volunteer
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 2:01 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
> <[9][13]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> I would like to hear Alison's view.
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 12:06 AM, Starchild
> <[10][14]starchild at lp.org>
> wrote:
>
> SARASOTA � Legislation that would punish local governments that
> don�t
>
> fully cooperate with federal immigration authorities drew support
> from
> Libertarian Alison Foxall and criticism from Democrat Margaret
> Good
> during a candidate forum for the state House District 72 race
> Tuesday.
>
> Foxall, a Sarasota marketing company owner, noted that the so-called
>
> sanctuary cities bill � which cleared the Florida House last
> week � has
> become �a very hot button issue.�
>
> �I don�t understand why,� Foxall said in arguing that
> undocumented
>
> immigrants present potential health and public safety problems.
> (From
> [11][15]http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20180116/sarasota-stat
> e-house-can
> didates-debate-immigration-guns-abortion-at-forum)
> I can't find anything on Alison Foxall's website about
> immigration one way or the other, and want to give her the benefit
> of
> the doubt that the paper got it wrong. I've copied the candidate,
> who
> is also a member of the Social Media Process Review Committee, on
> this
> message so she can address what her local paper reported.
> Hopefully we are not too preoccupied with policing
> intemperate
> posts on Facebook to be concerned if a Libertarian candidate is
> taking
> actual anti-libertarian positions at a public campaign event
> covered by
> the media. Allison's campaign is currently being touted in an ad
> on the
> front page of [12]LP.org.
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> [13][16]starchild at lp.org
> (415) 625-FREE
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> [14][17]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> [15][18]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> References
> 1. [19]http://floridapolitics.com/archives/248759-sanctuary-city-
> ban-bill-makes-comebac
> 2. mailto:[20]zac.anderson at heraldtribune.com
> 3. [21]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> List_of_United_States_immigration_laws
> 4. [22]http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2017/mar/15/
> florida-conference-catholic-bishops/being-united-states-
> unlawfully-crime/
> 5. [23]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWnBmoFiGQ
> 6. mailto:[24]RealReform at earthlink.net
> 7. mailto:[25]alison at foxallforflorida.com
> 8. [26]http://foxallforflorida.com/volunteer
> 9. mailto:[27]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 10. mailto:[28]starchild at lp.org
> 11. [29]http://www.heraldtribune.com/n
> ews/20180116/sarasota-state-house-candidates-debate-immigrat
> ion-guns-abortion-at-forum
> 12. [30]http://LP.org/
> 13. mailto:[31]starchild at lp.org
> 14. mailto:[32]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 15. [33]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> [34]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> [35]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> [36]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> [37]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> [38]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> [39]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 2. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
> 3. http://floridapolitics.com/archives/248759-sanctuary-city-ban-bil
> 4. tel:(941) 361-4836
> 5. mailto:zac.anderson at heraldtribune.com
> 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_immigration_laws
> 7. http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2017/mar/15/florida-con
> 8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWnBmoFiGQ
> 9. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
> 10. mailto:alison at foxallforflorida.com
> 11. tel:941-840-0369
> 12. http://foxallforflorida.com/volunteer
> 13. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 14. mailto:starchild at lp.org
> 15. http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20180116/sarasota-state-house-can
> 16. mailto:starchild at lp.org
> 17. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 18. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 19. http://floridapolitics.com/archives/248759-sanctuary-city-ban-bill-makes-comebac
> 20. mailto:zac.anderson at heraldtribune.com
> 21. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_immigration_laws
> 22. http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2017/mar/15/florida-conference-catholic-bishops/being-united-states-unlawfully-crime/
> 23. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWnBmoFiGQ
> 24. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
> 25. mailto:alison at foxallforflorida.com
> 26. http://foxallforflorida.com/volunteer
> 27. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 28. mailto:starchild at lp.org
> 29. http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20180116/sarasota-state-house-candidates-debate-immigration-guns-abortion-at-forum
> 30. http://LP.org/
> 31. mailto:starchild at lp.org
> 32. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 33. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 34. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 35. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 36. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 37. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 38. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 39. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
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