[Lnc-business] Accountability and frugality on LNC meeting expenses

Starchild starchild at lp.org
Fri Jan 26 00:12:37 EST 2018


Caryn Ann,

	I'm curious why you think flying up to three staffers to our meetings, and taking them away from their work at the office, is a good use of party funds when they could be reached by phone if needed.

	I can understand having one come out, to coordinate shipping equipment for recording the meeting, some outreach materials, and others supplies, set up donor meetings, etc., but is more really necessary and being frugal with our members' funds?

	Regarding free meeting spaces, I hear your concerns, but I still fail to understand why you see an issue with meeting at a member's home during the day for a formal public meeting, but see no issues with having an official fundraiser at a member's home at night where it's more of a party atmosphere and there is typically abundant alcohol present.*

Love & Liberty,
                                      ((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
                           RealReform at earthlink.net
                                   (415) 625-FREE

*Not that alcohol is never present at LNC meetings, but its appearance tends to be sparse. Now that Ken Moellman has resigned, I'm thinking maybe I should take up his informal practice of bringing whiskey at the end of our meetings, lest we lose this valuable tradition.   :-)


On Jan 25, 2018, at 8:48 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

>   I have come to change my mind on staffers and agree with David.
>   And also, I am not in favour of "free meeting spaces" (not the concept,
>   but usually how it works out - I do not want to meet in someone's home
>   - if there was some area meeting centre - those are rarely free - but
>   that would be fine.... some small states have their conventions in Elks
>   or Moose Lodges).  And there are Libertarians who have more public
>   spaces that they own that they may be willing to donate space for a
>   meeting.
>   I know a lot of people do not grok my absolute opposition to meeting in
>   homes, but I have had members reading this list who thanked me as they
>   have the same concerns.
> 
>   On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 9:27 PM, <[1]dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>        I will co-sponsor, but only if the motion is amended to three
>     staff
>        members approved in advance by the Chair or some other approval
>        mechanism acceptable to the LNC body. The rest of the motion
>     content is
>        excellent. The Executive Director and the Operations Manager
>     should
>        always be there. The logical third staff member would often be
>     the
>        Development Director but could be other solo appearances, but
>     only if
>        justified by the agenda and approved in advance by the Chair.
>        ~David Pratt Demarest
>        Region 6 Representative
>        From: Lnc-business [mailto:[2]lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On
>     Behalf Of
>        Caryn Ann Harlos
>        Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 6:00 PM
>        To: [3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>        Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] P.S. – Re: MOTION: Re: August LNC
>     meeting
>        I will co-sponsor
>        On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 4:33 PM Starchild
>     <[1][4]sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
> 
>      wrote:
>      In support of this motion, I'd just like to share a few quotes from
>   the
>      latest LP fundraising letter signed by our chair, which happened to
>      arrive in my mail today:
>      "We have a small team and we are very thoughtful about how we use
>   our
>      resources."
>      "We always seek to produce high quality work on a thrifty budget."
>      "When you give to the Libertarian Party, you can rest assured that
>   we
>      work hard to get the maximum effect from your investment." [boldface
>   in
>      original letter]
>      I urge my colleagues on the LNC to join me in seeking to ensure that
>   we
>      live up to these claims when it comes to that part of the party
>   budget
>      which most directly relates to us as representatives, and not give
>      anyone reason to accuse us of telling our donors one thing but doing
>      something different in practice.
>      Love & Liberty,
>                                       ((( starchild )))
>      At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                                    (415) 625-FREE
>                                      @StarchildSF
>      On Mar 14, 2017, at 3:02 PM, Starchild wrote:
>      I'm fairly agnostic on where we meet Joshua (though see below), but
>   if
>      it were to be Minneapolis, I'd be much more interested in hearing
>   about
>      what the Cyrstal Libertarians accomplished with their city council
>      majority once they had it. We've all heard plenty about how to get
>      elected (including, for those who called in, the informative
>      teleconference you and Brett Bittner hosted just a few weeks ago on
>   the
>      topic), but we pay too little attention, in my opinion, to what
>      Libertarians actually do once in office. Important to remember that
>      winning office is a means to an end, not the end in itself. The goal
>   is
>      to advance freedom. The more we can show that to be happening when
>      Libertarians hold office, the more reason voters have to elect us.
>      As usual with our meetings, I'll look more favorably on locations
>   that:
>      • save the LP money by not paying for meeting room rentals and
>   related
>      expenses (e.g. catered food/beverages)
>      • have locals willing to host traveling LNC members or others coming
>   to
>      the meeting in order to avoid/reduce lodging expenses
>      • have party affiliates who want to host an LNC meeting in their
>   area
>      and haven't done so before or recently
>      • have tie-ins with local (L)ibertarian activism or events
>      Related to saving the party money on this meeting (and on future
>      meetings by improving meeting cost transparency), I also make the
>      following motion, and ask for co-sponsors:
>      ------------------------------------------------------------
>   -----------
>      ------------------------------------------------
>      Moved, that no more than one party staff member maximum be flown to
>   the
>      August meeting at party expense, that staff looking into meeting
>      locations be directed to prioritize looking for locations that will
>   not
>      require any room rental fee or related fees/obligations (e.g. buying
>   a
>      certain amount of food, filling a block of hotel rooms, etc.), and
>   that
>      the LNC be informed within a reasonable length of time after each
>      meeting of the total cost to the party of that meeting and the
>      breakdown of expenses making up that cost, including amounts paid
>   for
>      flights, shipping, food, etc.
>      ------------------------------------------------------------
>   -----------
>      ------------------------------------------------
>      Love & Liberty,
>                                       ((( starchild )))
>      At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                                   (415) 625-FREE
>                                     @StarchildSF
>      On Mar 14, 2017, at 7:27 AM, Joshua Katz wrote:
>      I suggest Minneapolis, which is near Crystal, Minnesota, where
>      Libertarians used to be a majority on the city council.  This would
>      enable us to have a session, maybe over lunch, where we can hear
>   about
>      how they won that majority.
>      Joshua A. Katz
>      On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Sam Goldstein
> 
>        <[2][5]goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>        Dear LNC members,
>        Many of us are in the midst of planning our summers and I think
>     it is
>        time
>        that we take up the issue of where to have our meeting scheduled
>     for
>        August 19-20, 2017.
>        I'm in favor of moving west for this one.  Let's get the ball
>     rolling
>        with suggestions of locations and sites so we can narrow it down
>     over
>        the next couple weeks and perhaps have a decision done by our
>     April
>        meeting.
>        Thanks and
>        Live Free,
>        Sam Goldstein
>        Libertarian National Committee
>        Member at Large
>        8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>        Indianapolis IN 46260
>        [3]317-850-0726 Phone
>        [4]317-582-1773 Fax
>          _______________________________________________
>          Lnc-business mailing list
>          [5][6]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>          [6][7]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>          _______________________________________________
>          Lnc-business mailing list
>          [7][8]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>          [8][9]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>          _______________________________________________
>          Lnc-business mailing list
>          [9][10]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>          [10][11]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.
>     org
>          _______________________________________________
>          Lnc-business mailing list
>          [11][12]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>          [12][13]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.
>     org
>     References
>        1. mailto:[14]sfdreamer at earthlink.net
>        2. mailto:[15]goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
>        3. tel:[16](317) 850-0726
>        4. tel:[17](317) 582-1773
>        5. mailto:[18]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>        6. [19]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>        7. mailto:[20]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>        8. [21]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>        9. mailto:[22]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>       10. [23]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>       11. mailto:[24]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>       12. [25]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>     _______________________________________________
>     Lnc-business mailing list
>     [26]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>     [27]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:dprattdemarest at gmail.com
>   2. mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>   3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>   4. mailto:sfdreamer at earthlink.net
>   5. mailto:goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
>   6. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>   7. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>   8. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>   9. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>  10. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>  11. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>  12. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>  13. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>  14. mailto:sfdreamer at earthlink.net
>  15. mailto:goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
>  16. tel:(317) 850-0726
>  17. tel:(317) 582-1773
>  18. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>  19. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>  20. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>  21. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>  22. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>  23. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>  24. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>  25. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>  26. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>  27. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business

-------------- next part --------------
   Caryn Ann,

   I'm curious why you think flying up to three staffers to our meetings,
   and taking them away from their work at the office, is a good use of
   party funds when they could be reached by phone if needed.

   I can understand having one come out, to coordinate shipping equipment
   for recording the meeting, some outreach materials, and others
   supplies, set up donor meetings, etc., but is more really necessary and
   being frugal with our members' funds?

   Regarding free meeting spaces, I hear your concerns, but I still fail
   to understand why you see an issue with meeting at a member's home
   during the day for a formal public meeting, but see no issues with
   having an official fundraiser at a member's home at night where it's
   more of a party atmosphere and there is typically abundant alcohol
   present.*

   Love & Liberty,

                                         ((( starchild )))

   At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee

                              [1]RealReform at earthlink.net
                                      (415) 625-FREE

   *Not that alcohol is never present at LNC meetings, but its appearance
   tends to be sparse. Now that Ken Moellman has resigned, I'm thinking
   maybe I should take up his informal practice of bringing whiskey at the
   end of our meetings, lest we lose this valuable tradition.   :-)

   On Jan 25, 2018, at 8:48 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

     I have come to change my mind on staffers and agree with David.
     And also, I am not in favour of "free meeting spaces" (not the
   concept,
     but usually how it works out - I do not want to meet in someone's
   home
     - if there was some area meeting centre - those are rarely free - but
     that would be fine.... some small states have their conventions in
   Elks
     or Moose Lodges).  And there are Libertarians who have more public
     spaces that they own that they may be willing to donate space for a
     meeting.
     I know a lot of people do not grok my absolute opposition to meeting
   in
     homes, but I have had members reading this list who thanked me as
   they
     have the same concerns.
     On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 9:27 PM, <[1]dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
          I will co-sponsor, but only if the motion is amended to three
       staff
          members approved in advance by the Chair or some other approval
          mechanism acceptable to the LNC body. The rest of the motion
       content is
          excellent. The Executive Director and the Operations Manager
       should
          always be there. The logical third staff member would often be
       the
          Development Director but could be other solo appearances, but
       only if
          justified by the agenda and approved in advance by the Chair.
          ~David Pratt Demarest
          Region 6 Representative
          From: Lnc-business [mailto:[2]lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On
       Behalf Of
          Caryn Ann Harlos
          Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 6:00 PM
          To: [3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
          Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] P.S. � Re: MOTION: Re: August LNC
       meeting
          I will co-sponsor
          On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 4:33 PM Starchild
       <[1][4]sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
        wrote:
        In support of this motion, I'd just like to share a few quotes
   from
     the
        latest LP fundraising letter signed by our chair, which happened
   to
        arrive in my mail today:
        "We have a small team and we are very thoughtful about how we use
     our
        resources."
        "We always seek to produce high quality work on a thrifty budget."
        "When you give to the Libertarian Party, you can rest assured that
     we
        work hard to get the maximum effect from your investment."
   [boldface
     in
        original letter]
        I urge my colleagues on the LNC to join me in seeking to ensure
   that
     we
        live up to these claims when it comes to that part of the party
     budget
        which most directly relates to us as representatives, and not give
        anyone reason to accuse us of telling our donors one thing but
   doing
        something different in practice.
        Love & Liberty,
                                         ((( starchild )))
        At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
                                      (415) 625-FREE
                                        @StarchildSF
        On Mar 14, 2017, at 3:02 PM, Starchild wrote:
        I'm fairly agnostic on where we meet Joshua (though see below),
   but
     if
        it were to be Minneapolis, I'd be much more interested in hearing
     about
        what the Cyrstal Libertarians accomplished with their city council
        majority once they had it. We've all heard plenty about how to get
        elected (including, for those who called in, the informative
        teleconference you and Brett Bittner hosted just a few weeks ago
   on
     the
        topic), but we pay too little attention, in my opinion, to what
        Libertarians actually do once in office. Important to remember
   that
        winning office is a means to an end, not the end in itself. The
   goal
     is
        to advance freedom. The more we can show that to be happening when
        Libertarians hold office, the more reason voters have to elect us.
        As usual with our meetings, I'll look more favorably on locations
     that:
        � save the LP money by not paying for meeting room rentals and
     related
        expenses (e.g. catered food/beverages)
        � have locals willing to host traveling LNC members or others
   coming
     to
        the meeting in order to avoid/reduce lodging expenses
        � have party affiliates who want to host an LNC meeting in their
     area
        and haven't done so before or recently
        � have tie-ins with local (L)ibertarian activism or events
        Related to saving the party money on this meeting (and on future
        meetings by improving meeting cost transparency), I also make the
        following motion, and ask for co-sponsors:
        ------------------------------------------------------------
     -----------
        ------------------------------------------------
        Moved, that no more than one party staff member maximum be flown
   to
     the
        August meeting at party expense, that staff looking into meeting
        locations be directed to prioritize looking for locations that
   will
     not
        require any room rental fee or related fees/obligations (e.g.
   buying
     a
        certain amount of food, filling a block of hotel rooms, etc.), and
     that
        the LNC be informed within a reasonable length of time after each
        meeting of the total cost to the party of that meeting and the
        breakdown of expenses making up that cost, including amounts paid
     for
        flights, shipping, food, etc.
        ------------------------------------------------------------
     -----------
        ------------------------------------------------
        Love & Liberty,
                                         ((( starchild )))
        At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
                                     (415) 625-FREE
                                       @StarchildSF
        On Mar 14, 2017, at 7:27 AM, Joshua Katz wrote:
        I suggest Minneapolis, which is near Crystal, Minnesota, where
        Libertarians used to be a majority on the city council.  This
   would
        enable us to have a session, maybe over lunch, where we can hear
     about
        how they won that majority.
        Joshua A. Katz
        On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Sam Goldstein
          <[2][5]goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
          Dear LNC members,
          Many of us are in the midst of planning our summers and I think
       it is
          time
          that we take up the issue of where to have our meeting scheduled
       for
          August 19-20, 2017.
          I'm in favor of moving west for this one.  Let's get the ball
       rolling
          with suggestions of locations and sites so we can narrow it down
       over
          the next couple weeks and perhaps have a decision done by our
       April
          meeting.
          Thanks and
          Live Free,
          Sam Goldstein
          Libertarian National Committee
          Member at Large
          8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
          Indianapolis IN 46260
          [3]317-850-0726 Phone
          [4]317-582-1773 Fax
            _______________________________________________
            Lnc-business mailing list
            [5][6]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
            [6][7]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
            _______________________________________________
            Lnc-business mailing list
            [7][8]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
            [8][9]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
            _______________________________________________
            Lnc-business mailing list
            [9][10]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
            [10][11]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.
       org
            _______________________________________________
            Lnc-business mailing list
            [11][12]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
            [12][13]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.
       org
       References
          1. mailto:[14]sfdreamer at earthlink.net
          2. mailto:[15]goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
          3. tel:[16](317) 850-0726
          4. tel:[17](317) 582-1773
          5. mailto:[18]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
          6. [19]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
          7. mailto:[20]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
          8. [21]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
          9. mailto:[22]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
         10. [23]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
         11. mailto:[24]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
         12. [25]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
       _______________________________________________
       Lnc-business mailing list
       [26]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       [27]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
   References
     1. [2]mailto:dprattdemarest at gmail.com
     2. [3]mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
     3. [4]mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     4. [5]mailto:sfdreamer at earthlink.net
     5. [6]mailto:goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
     6. [7]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     7. [8]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
     8. [9]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     9. [10]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
    10. [11]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
    11. [12]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
    12. [13]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
    13. [14]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
    14. [15]mailto:sfdreamer at earthlink.net
    15. [16]mailto:goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
    16. tel:(317) 850-0726
    17. tel:(317) 582-1773
    18. [17]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
    19. [18]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
    20. [19]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
    21. [20]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
    22. [21]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
    23. [22]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
    24. [23]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
    25. [24]http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
    26. [25]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
    27. [26]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
   _______________________________________________
   Lnc-business mailing list
   [27]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business

References

   1. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
   2. mailto:dprattdemarest at gmail.com
   3. mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
   4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   5. mailto:sfdreamer at earthlink.net
   6. mailto:goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
   7. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   8. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
   9. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  10. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
  11. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  12. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
  13. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  14. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
  15. mailto:sfdreamer at earthlink.net
  16. mailto:goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
  17. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  18. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
  19. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  20. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
  21. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  22. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
  23. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  24. http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
  25. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  26. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
  27. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org


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