[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-03: Censure of Arvin Vohra
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Mon Jan 29 16:31:18 EST 2018
This is what I sent to my region one chairs:
Hello everyone. AZ has a new state chair but as he has not been privy to
the whole of this discussions, I am not including AZ on this because it is
nearly its end. For the record AZ passed a resolution this weekend
condemning any support of pedophilia and hebephilia which obviously is in
direct response to this situation.
The censure motion will fail. Nearly all the yes's have changed their vote
to no. Arvin posted a defense which was more of the same - you can read on
the LNC list (and I encourage you to, and he posted on the state chairs
list) but the tldr; is empathy fails, being an asshole works. I don't
agree, and that is not what I signed up for. I suspect that is not what
many of you signed up for either.
My vote remains yes. The no votes now are for various reasons. I suspect
but cannot prove that the over-reaching letter from counsel from pivotal.
Others do not like the wording of the censure motion as it does not take a
side in the age of consent debate. Some want to claim that NONE of Arvin's
points were Libertarian. Others think some were and some were not (I fall
in that camp). But what this has devolved into is factional jockeying
about who gets to interpret the Platform and thus get the upper hand in the
ideological struggle. Which is exactly what Arvin wanted. To make this
into an ideological dispute and not one of professionalism, breach of duty,
and proper conduct of leaders. I am deeply saddened. The vast majority of
region 1 chairs told me that they agreed with much but not all of what he
said. Yet some on the LNC are trying to condemn it all and - that is
nakedly a factional issue.
The 2/2 meeting will be a farce. Nothing acceptable to Region 1 will come
out of it. I will attend and argue as that is my instructions, but I am
writing to see if in any of this you wish to change my instructions.
My recommendation to Region 1 states no matter where you stand. *Issue
your own resolutions and come to grips with the idea what the LNC is not
capable of doing anything about this situation. * I say this with regret.
I am going to advise them to have me abstain in absolute protest and for
Region 1 to take its own stand. We bow down to the national party too
much, that has also been my position, and remains so.
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 2:08 PM, <erin.adams at lp.org> wrote:
> I dont get to vote on this but would have voted Yes. A motion to censure
> should have been made some time ago imo
>
>
>
> On 2018-01-29 15:04, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
>> So in short. Arvin acted horribly - will continue to act horribly and
>> we have zero backbone to handle it. He breached his fiduciary duty HE
>> COST OUR AFFILIATES DONORS, he insisted that our staff could rise to
>> the occasion of raising that extra money and then broke their legs.
>>
>> My opinion.
>>
>> I don’t care if I’m the sole yes.
>>
>> I KNOW communicating radical ideas in a non-asshole way works. I do it
>> every day. IT TAKES MORE COURAGE to do that than be an unempathic
>> edgelord.
>>
>> And we bought it hook line and sinker.
>>
>> Literally shaking my head.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 1:59 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
>> <[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> I maintain my position as what the majority of my regional Chairs want.
>>
>> I hear the concerns about the wording and will communicate those to my
>> state Chairs to see if that influences their decision.
>>
>> However the case in region 1 was cumulative and not just about this
>> incidence and like it or not age of consent is an issue this Party has
>> argued about since the beginning and I see politicking here in this
>> body to deny that and makes this body the arbiter when the line is
>> drawn and not the delegates.
>>
>> This it seems to me that this has become less about Arvin’s reckless
>> behaviour and more and factional jockeying.
>>
>> It seems that yes this is a continuation of 2006 where people were
>> assured that the platform was simply streamlined and not changed - so
>> trying the change the meaning of adult here to be an arbitrary state
>> law when IT NEVER MEANT THAT in the old platforms is showing a hand.
>> IMHO.
>>
>> Which is a shame. Because Arvin’s behaviour was abominable but it’s
>> obvious this Body can’t do a thing about it.
>>
>> I will report to my regional Chairs and act accordingly.
>>
>> The 2/2 meeting will be a farce because of the will here to have a
>> Libertarian Purity test.
>>
>> Which I find so ironic.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 1:19 PM Sam Goldstein <[2]sam.goldstein at lp.org
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Please change my vote to "No" on this motion. I tend to agree with
>> those who have pointed out that the wording of the censure seems to
>> imply approval of ideas that are abhorrent to me and to the LP.
>> ---
>> Sam Goldstein
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> 317-850-0726 Cell
>> On 2018-01-29 14:26, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>> > I have to vote no.
>> > As I wrote previously, censure (and more) is warranted here,
>> > however, I
>> > cannot vote for a motion which claims the outrageous comments
>> which
>> > were made by Mr. Vohra are "libertarian ideas", and that our
>> leaders
>> > and candidates are trying to win hearts and minds for those
>> ideas
>> > espoused by Mr. Vohra, just stated in a different way.
>> > -Alicia
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Alicia Mattson
>> > <[1][3]agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > We have an electronic mail ballot.
>> > Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by January 30, 2018 at
>> > 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
>> >
>> > Co-Sponsors: Hayes, Hewitt, Demarest, Hagan
>> > Motion: to censure LNC Vice Chair Arvin Vohra for repeated
>> public
>> > comments which have presented libertarian ideas in an
>> inflammatory
>> > and
>> > sometimes offensive manner not conducive to Libertarian leaders
>> and
>> > candidates for public office winning hearts and minds for those
>> > ideas.
>> > -Alicia
>> >
>> > References
>> >
>> > 1. mailto:[4]agmattson at gmail.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>> 2. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
>> 3. mailto:agmattson at gmail.com
>> 4. mailto:agmattson at gmail.com
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
This is what I sent to my region one chairs:
Hello everyone. AZ has a new state chair but as he has not been privy
to the whole of this discussions, I am not including AZ on this because
it is nearly its end. For the record AZ passed a resolution this
weekend condemning any support of pedophilia and hebephilia which
obviously is in direct response to this situation.
The censure motion will fail. Nearly all the yes's have changed their
vote to no. Arvin posted a defense which was more of the same - you
can read on the LNC list (and I encourage you to, and he posted on the
state chairs list) but the tldr; is empathy fails, being an asshole
works. I don't agree, and that is not what I signed up for. I suspect
that is not what many of you signed up for either.
My vote remains yes. The no votes now are for various reasons. I
suspect but cannot prove that the over-reaching letter from counsel
from pivotal. Others do not like the wording of the censure motion as
it does not take a side in the age of consent debate. Some want to
claim that NONE of Arvin's points were Libertarian. Others think some
were and some were not (I fall in that camp). But what this has
devolved into is factional jockeying about who gets to interpret the
Platform and thus get the upper hand in the ideological struggle.
Which is exactly what Arvin wanted. To make this into an ideological
dispute and not one of professionalism, breach of duty, and proper
conduct of leaders. I am deeply saddened. The vast majority of region
1 chairs told me that they agreed with much but not all of what he
said. Yet some on the LNC are trying to condemn it all and - that is
nakedly a factional issue.
The 2/2 meeting will be a farce. Nothing acceptable to Region 1 will
come out of it. I will attend and argue as that is my instructions,
but I am writing to see if in any of this you wish to change my
instructions.
My recommendation to Region 1 states no matter where you stand. Issue
your own resolutions and come to grips with the idea what the LNC is
not capable of doing anything about this situation. I say this with
regret.
I am going to advise them to have me abstain in absolute protest and
for Region 1 to take its own stand. We bow down to the national party
too much, that has also been my position, and remains so.
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 2:08 PM, <[1]erin.adams at lp.org> wrote:
I dont get to vote on this but would have voted Yes. A motion to
censure should have been made some time ago imo
On 2018-01-29 15:04, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
So in short. Arvin acted horribly - will continue to act horribly
and
we have zero backbone to handle it. He breached his fiduciary
duty HE
COST OUR AFFILIATES DONORS, he insisted that our staff could rise
to
the occasion of raising that extra money and then broke their
legs.
My opinion.
I don’t care if I’m the sole yes.
I KNOW communicating radical ideas in a non-asshole way works. I
do it
every day. IT TAKES MORE COURAGE to do that than be an
unempathic
edgelord.
And we bought it hook line and sinker.
Literally shaking my head.
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 1:59 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
<[1][2]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
I maintain my position as what the majority of my regional Chairs
want.
I hear the concerns about the wording and will communicate those
to my
state Chairs to see if that influences their decision.
However the case in region 1 was cumulative and not just about
this
incidence and like it or not age of consent is an issue this
Party has
argued about since the beginning and I see politicking here in
this
body to deny that and makes this body the arbiter when the line
is
drawn and not the delegates.
This it seems to me that this has become less about Arvin’s
reckless
behaviour and more and factional jockeying.
It seems that yes this is a continuation of 2006 where people
were
assured that the platform was simply streamlined and not changed
- so
trying the change the meaning of adult here to be an arbitrary
state
law when IT NEVER MEANT THAT in the old platforms is showing a
hand.
IMHO.
Which is a shame. Because Arvin’s behaviour was abominable but
it’s
obvious this Body can’t do a thing about it.
I will report to my regional Chairs and act accordingly.
The 2/2 meeting will be a farce because of the will here to have
a
Libertarian Purity test.
Which I find so ironic.
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 1:19 PM Sam Goldstein
<[2][3]sam.goldstein at lp.org>
wrote:
Please change my vote to "No" on this motion. I tend to agree
with
those who have pointed out that the wording of the censure
seems to
imply approval of ideas that are abhorrent to me and to the LP.
---
Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
[4]317-850-0726 Cell
On 2018-01-29 14:26, Alicia Mattson wrote:
> I have to vote no.
> As I wrote previously, censure (and more) is warranted
here,
> however, I
> cannot vote for a motion which claims the outrageous
comments
which
> were made by Mr. Vohra are "libertarian ideas", and that
our
leaders
> and candidates are trying to win hearts and minds for
those
ideas
> espoused by Mr. Vohra, just stated in a different way.
> -Alicia
>
> On Sat, Jan 20, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Alicia Mattson
> <[1][3][5]agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We have an electronic mail ballot.
> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by January 30, 2018
at
> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
>
> Co-Sponsors: Hayes, Hewitt, Demarest, Hagan
> Motion: to censure LNC Vice Chair Arvin Vohra for
repeated
public
> comments which have presented libertarian ideas in an
inflammatory
> and
> sometimes offensive manner not conducive to Libertarian
leaders
and
> candidates for public office winning hearts and minds for
those
> ideas.
> -Alicia
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[4][6]agmattson at gmail.com
References
1. mailto:[7]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
2. mailto:[8]sam.goldstein at lp.org
3. mailto:[9]agmattson at gmail.com
4. mailto:[10]agmattson at gmail.com
References
1. mailto:erin.adams at lp.org
2. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
3. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
4. tel:317-850-0726
5. mailto:agmattson at gmail.com
6. mailto:agmattson at gmail.com
7. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
8. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
9. mailto:agmattson at gmail.com
10. mailto:agmattson at gmail.com
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