[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-03: Censure of Arvin Vohra
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Wed Jan 31 01:12:43 EST 2018
And again if 14 year old girls are typically fair game- I ask again - does
anyone defending that statement here have the fortitude to move a
resolution to apologize to Roy Moore?
On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 11:10 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
wrote:
> I am using words the way people heard them and that was the implication of
> what he said. He would rather even someone he thinks is a pervert (they do
> exist - and they do troll after kids) as long as they have a job to
> impregnate a 14 year old than another kid. Because welfare.
>
> Yes - when put in the stark cold reality of the implications of what he
> said it IS awful. And that’s what our members heard. Many of them just as
> “pure” as Arvin.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 10:29 PM Starchild <starchild at lp.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Caryn Ann,
>>
>> Mary Ruwart's comment is clearly weighing in on our debate on
>> this motion, and her stance seems plain enough. It's hard to imagine she'd
>> object to us seeing her remarks in a timely manner, so accusing Arvin of
>> "using people" by publishing them here seems uncalled for. As does the use
>> of demonizing epithets like "pervert". I frankly find that language
>> offensive, and hope we can keep the discussion more civil.
>>
>> Love & Liberty,
>>
>> ((( starchild )))
>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>> (415) 625-FREE
>>
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2018, at 8:52 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> > And of course that was not the point.
>> > I would love to speak with Dr. Ruwart on this, the author of "The
>> > Compassion of Libertarianism" about how we need less empathy and ya
>> > know, if a 14 year old gets pregnant, might as well be a pervert with
>> a
>> > job rather than a broke kid. Because welfare.
>> > This is called using people.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Arvin Vohra <[1]votevohra at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Forward from Dr. Mary Ruwart:
>> > “If such motions had circulated in the LNC in the early days of
>> > our
>> > Party, no LNC member would have spoken out against the War on
>> > Drugs,
>> > claimed that gays had rights, or pointed out that taxation was
>> > theft.
>> > All of these positions were considered inflammatory and offensive
>> > to
>> > the majority of people outside the LP for most of the 1980s,
>> > regardless
>> > of how carefully these positions were presented. Now, they are
>> > seriously embraced or considered across the political spectrum
>> > precisely because we spoke out. It’s impossible to affect serious
>> > change without offending some listeners. How can anyone believe
>> > that
>> > the LP supports free speech when its own members are punished for
>> > engaging in it?” ----Mary J. Ruwart
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 3:45 AM, <[1][2]david.demarest at lp.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > I change my vote to "YES" on the censure motion and ask others to
>> > vote 'YES' and request the cancellation of the electronic meeting
>> > to
>> > consider suspension.
>> > Arvin has audaciously and courageously challenged us to stop
>> > speaking in tongues about our Libertarian principles. He has
>> > correctly identified the fact that the opposition does a better
>> > job
>> > of describing our policy and positions than we do. We need to
>> step
>> > up to the plate with equal courage and get us back on track
>> toward
>> > our shared goal of freedom.
>> > It is time to end this game of Russian roulette that Ms. Mattson
>> > has
>> > aptly described as a circular firing squad, this
>> > political-correctness nightmare of timidity before voters and
>> > pandemic get-elected-itis at the expense of not only our
>> > principles
>> > but any semblance of rationality. We have done enough damage to
>> > the
>> > Libertarian cause. Let us cease this endless cycle of
>> > self-destruction before we plunge ourselves into a death-spiral
>> of
>> > reworded censure motions.
>> > Good grief - enough already!
>> > ~David Pratt Demarest
>> > On 2018-01-29 22:11, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>> > I hope my statement that the censure will fail is disproven. I
>> am
>> > disappointed in the yes votes changing to no. This censure is
>> > woefully
>> > inadequate, but it is not as woefully inadequate as nothing at
>> > all.
>> > What we heard from Arvin is a defense of Trump tactics. That
>> > is
>> > not
>> > the LP I work for, recruit for, and donate for.
>> > On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Patrick McKnight
>> >
>> > <[1][2][3]patrick.mcknight at lp.org> wrote:
>> > I vote yes. However I feel censure is insufficient and
>> > look
>> > forward to
>> > the electronic meeting.
>> > Thanks,
>> > Patrick McKnight
>> > Region 8 Rep
>> > On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:21 PM, Tim Hagan
>> > <[1][2][3][4]tim.hagan at lp.org>
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> > I vote yes.
>> > ---
>> > Tim Hagan
>> > Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
>> > On 2018-01-20 19:03, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>> > We have an electronic mail ballot.
>> > Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by January 30,
>> > 2018 at
>> > 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
>> > Co-Sponsors: Hayes, Hewitt, Demarest, Hagan
>> > Motion: to censure LNC Vice Chair Arvin Vohra for
>> > repeated
>> > public
>> > comments which have presented libertarian ideas in an
>> > inflammatory
>> > and
>> > sometimes offensive manner not conducive to
>> Libertarian
>> > leaders and
>> > candidates for public office winning hearts and minds
>> > for
>> > those
>> > ideas.
>> > -Alicia
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Lnc-business mailing list
>> >
>> > [2][3][4][5]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > [3][4][5][6]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
>> > /mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > References
>> > 1. mailto:[5][6][7]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 2. mailto:[6][7][8]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 3. [7][8][9]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
>> > ilman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > References
>> > 1. mailto:[9][10]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> > 2. mailto:[10][11]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 3. mailto:[11][12]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 4. [12][13]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
>> > mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 5. mailto:[13][14]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 6. mailto:[14][15]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 7. [15][16]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
>> > mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > --
>> > Arvin Vohra
>> > [16][17]www.VoteVohra.com
>> > [17][18]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>> > [19](301) 320-3634
>> > References
>> > 1. mailto:[20]david.demarest at lp.org
>> > 2. mailto:[21]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> > 3. mailto:[22]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 4. mailto:[23]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 5. [24]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 6. mailto:[25]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 7. mailto:[26]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 8. [27]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 9. mailto:[28]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> > 10. mailto:[29]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 11. mailto:[30]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 12. [31]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 13. mailto:[32]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 14. mailto:[33]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 15. [34]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 16. [35]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>> > 17. mailto:[36]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>> >
>> > References
>> >
>> > 1. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
>> > 2. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
>> > 3. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> > 4. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 5. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 6. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
>> > 7. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 8. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 9. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
>> > 10. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> > 11. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 12. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 13. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 14. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 15. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 16. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 17. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>> > 18. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>> > 19. tel:(301) 320-3634
>> > 20. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
>> > 21. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> > 22. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 23. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 24. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 25. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 26. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 27. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 28. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> > 29. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 30. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 31. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 32. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>> > 33. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 34. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> > 35. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>> > 36. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
And again if 14 year old girls are typically fair game- I ask again -
does anyone defending that statement here have the fortitude to move a
resolution to apologize to Roy Moore?
On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 11:10 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
<[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
I am using words the way people heard them and that was the implication
of what he said. He would rather even someone he thinks is a pervert
(they do exist - and they do troll after kids) as long as they have a
job to impregnate a 14 year old than another kid. Because welfare.
Yes - when put in the stark cold reality of the implications of what he
said it IS awful. And that’s what our members heard. Many of them
just as “pure” as Arvin.
On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 10:29 PM Starchild <[2]starchild at lp.org> wrote:
Caryn Ann,
Mary Ruwart's comment is clearly weighing in on our debate
on this motion, and her stance seems plain enough. It's hard to
imagine she'd object to us seeing her remarks in a timely manner, so
accusing Arvin of "using people" by publishing them here seems
uncalled for. As does the use of demonizing epithets like "pervert".
I frankly find that language offensive, and hope we can keep the
discussion more civil.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
[3]RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
On Jan 30, 2018, at 8:52 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> And of course that was not the point.
> I would love to speak with Dr. Ruwart on this, the author of
"The
> Compassion of Libertarianism" about how we need less empathy and
ya
> know, if a 14 year old gets pregnant, might as well be a pervert
with a
> job rather than a broke kid. Because welfare.
> This is called using people.
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Arvin Vohra
<[1][4]votevohra at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Forward from Dr. Mary Ruwart:
> “If such motions had circulated in the LNC in the early
days of
> our
> Party, no LNC member would have spoken out against the War
on
> Drugs,
> claimed that gays had rights, or pointed out that taxation
was
> theft.
> All of these positions were considered inflammatory and
offensive
> to
> the majority of people outside the LP for most of the
1980s,
> regardless
> of how carefully these positions were presented. Now, they
are
> seriously embraced or considered across the political
spectrum
> precisely because we spoke out. It’s impossible to affect
serious
> change without offending some listeners. How can anyone
believe
> that
> the LP supports free speech when its own members are
punished for
> engaging in it?” ----Mary J. Ruwart
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 3:45 AM,
<[1][2][5]david.demarest at lp.org>
> wrote:
> I change my vote to "YES" on the censure motion and ask
others to
> vote 'YES' and request the cancellation of the electronic
meeting
> to
> consider suspension.
> Arvin has audaciously and courageously challenged us to
stop
> speaking in tongues about our Libertarian principles. He
has
> correctly identified the fact that the opposition does a
better
> job
> of describing our policy and positions than we do. We need
to step
> up to the plate with equal courage and get us back on track
toward
> our shared goal of freedom.
> It is time to end this game of Russian roulette that Ms.
Mattson
> has
> aptly described as a circular firing squad, this
> political-correctness nightmare of timidity before voters
and
> pandemic get-elected-itis at the expense of not only our
> principles
> but any semblance of rationality. We have done enough
damage to
> the
> Libertarian cause. Let us cease this endless cycle of
> self-destruction before we plunge ourselves into a
death-spiral of
> reworded censure motions.
> Good grief - enough already!
> ~David Pratt Demarest
> On 2018-01-29 22:11, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> I hope my statement that the censure will fail is
disproven. I am
> disappointed in the yes votes changing to no. This
censure is
> woefully
> inadequate, but it is not as woefully inadequate as
nothing at
> all.
> What we heard from Arvin is a defense of Trump tactics.
That
> is
> not
> the LP I work for, recruit for, and donate for.
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Patrick McKnight
>
> <[1][2][3][6]patrick.mcknight at lp.org> wrote:
> I vote yes. However I feel censure is
insufficient and
> look
> forward to
> the electronic meeting.
> Thanks,
> Patrick McKnight
> Region 8 Rep
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:21 PM, Tim Hagan
> <[1][2][3][4][7]tim.hagan at lp.org>
>
> wrote:
> I vote yes.
> ---
> Tim Hagan
> Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
> On 2018-01-20 19:03, Alicia Mattson wrote:
> We have an electronic mail ballot.
> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by
January 30,
> 2018 at
> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
> Co-Sponsors: Hayes, Hewitt, Demarest, Hagan
> Motion: to censure LNC Vice Chair Arvin Vohra
for
> repeated
> public
> comments which have presented libertarian ideas
in an
> inflammatory
> and
> sometimes offensive manner not conducive to
Libertarian
> leaders and
> candidates for public office winning hearts and
minds
> for
> those
> ideas.
> -Alicia
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
>
> [2][3][4][5][8]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> [3][4][5][6][9]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
> /mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> References
> 1. mailto:[5][6][7][10]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 2. mailto:[6][7][8][11]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. [7][8][9][12]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
> ilman/listinfo/lnc-business
> References
> 1. mailto:[9][10][13]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 2. mailto:[10][11][14]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 3. mailto:[11][12][15]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. [12][13][16]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 5. mailto:[13][14][17]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 6. mailto:[14][15][18]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 7. [15][16][19]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> --
> Arvin Vohra
> [16][17][20]www.VoteVohra.com
> [17][18][21]VoteVohra at gmail.com
> [19](301) 320-3634
> References
> 1. mailto:[20][22]david.demarest at lp.org
> 2. mailto:[21][23]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 3. mailto:[22][24]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 4. mailto:[23][25]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 5.
[24][26]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 6. mailto:[25][27]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 7. mailto:[26][28]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 8.
[27][29]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 9. mailto:[28][30]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 10. mailto:[29][31]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 11. mailto:[30][32]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 12.
[31][33]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 13. mailto:[32][34]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 14. mailto:[33][35]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 15.
[34][36]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 16. [35][37]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 17. mailto:[36][38]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[39]votevohra at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:[40]david.demarest at lp.org
> 3. mailto:[41]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 4. mailto:[42]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 5. mailto:[43]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 6. [44]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
> 7. mailto:[45]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 8. mailto:[46]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 9. [47]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
> 10. mailto:[48]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 11. mailto:[49]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 12. mailto:[50]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 13. [51]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 14. mailto:[52]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 15. mailto:[53]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 16. [54]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 17. [55]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 18. mailto:[56]VoteVohra at gmail.com
> 19. tel:(301) 320-3634
> 20. mailto:[57]david.demarest at lp.org
> 21. mailto:[58]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 22. mailto:[59]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 23. mailto:[60]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 24. [61]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 25. mailto:[62]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 26. mailto:[63]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 27. [64]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 28. mailto:[65]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 29. mailto:[66]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 30. mailto:[67]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 31. [68]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 32. mailto:[69]tim.hagan at lp.org
> 33. mailto:[70]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 34. [71]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 35. [72]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 36. mailto:[73]VoteVohra at gmail.com
References
1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
2. mailto:starchild at lp.org
3. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
4. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
5. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
6. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
7. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
8. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
9. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
10. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
11. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
12. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
13. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
14. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
15. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
16. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
17. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
18. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
19. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
20. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
21. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
22. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
23. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
24. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
25. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
26. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
27. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
28. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
29. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
30. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
31. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
32. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
33. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
34. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
35. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
36. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
37. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
38. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
39. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
40. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
41. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
42. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
43. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
44. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
45. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
46. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
47. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
48. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
49. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
50. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
51. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
52. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
53. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
54. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
55. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
56. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
57. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
58. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
59. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
60. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
61. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
62. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
63. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
64. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
65. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
66. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
67. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
68. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
69. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
70. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
71. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
72. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
73. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
More information about the Lnc-business
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