[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-03: Censure of Arvin Vohra
Starchild
starchild at lp.org
Wed Jan 31 03:01:18 EST 2018
A statement describing a group of people as "fair game" sounds like describing them as animals to be hunted, rather than individual human beings with rights. I would reject that characterization.
"Pervert" is a loaded term commonly applied to demonize anyone whose sexual habits are not considered acceptable. It has been applied to LGBTQ people and others, and I don't think it is appropriate in what should be a rational discussion about human development and the capacity to consent. I haven't heard that Arvin ever used the term (hopefully not).
In the case of Roy Moore, he has been credibly accused of sexual assault (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore_sexual_misconduct_allegations, in particular the case of Beverly Young Nelson). He is also an authoritarian-leaning politician who wants to force his morality on others at the point of government guns. I don't think we owe him an apology.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
On Jan 30, 2018, at 10:12 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> And again if 14 year old girls are typically fair game- I ask again -
> does anyone defending that statement here have the fortitude to move a
> resolution to apologize to Roy Moore?
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 11:10 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
> <[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>
> I am using words the way people heard them and that was the implication
> of what he said. He would rather even someone he thinks is a pervert
> (they do exist - and they do troll after kids) as long as they have a
> job to impregnate a 14 year old than another kid. Because welfare.
>
> Yes - when put in the stark cold reality of the implications of what he
> said it IS awful. And that’s what our members heard. Many of them
> just as “pure” as Arvin.
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 10:29 PM Starchild <[2]starchild at lp.org> wrote:
>
> Caryn Ann,
> Mary Ruwart's comment is clearly weighing in on our debate
> on this motion, and her stance seems plain enough. It's hard to
> imagine she'd object to us seeing her remarks in a timely manner, so
> accusing Arvin of "using people" by publishing them here seems
> uncalled for. As does the use of demonizing epithets like "pervert".
> I frankly find that language offensive, and hope we can keep the
> discussion more civil.
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> [3]RealReform at earthlink.net
> (415) 625-FREE
> On Jan 30, 2018, at 8:52 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>> And of course that was not the point.
>> I would love to speak with Dr. Ruwart on this, the author of
> "The
>> Compassion of Libertarianism" about how we need less empathy and
> ya
>> know, if a 14 year old gets pregnant, might as well be a pervert
> with a
>> job rather than a broke kid. Because welfare.
>> This is called using people.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Arvin Vohra
> <[1][4]votevohra at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Forward from Dr. Mary Ruwart:
>> “If such motions had circulated in the LNC in the early
> days of
>> our
>> Party, no LNC member would have spoken out against the War
> on
>> Drugs,
>> claimed that gays had rights, or pointed out that taxation
> was
>> theft.
>> All of these positions were considered inflammatory and
> offensive
>> to
>> the majority of people outside the LP for most of the
> 1980s,
>> regardless
>> of how carefully these positions were presented. Now, they
> are
>> seriously embraced or considered across the political
> spectrum
>> precisely because we spoke out. It’s impossible to affect
> serious
>> change without offending some listeners. How can anyone
> believe
>> that
>> the LP supports free speech when its own members are
> punished for
>> engaging in it?” ----Mary J. Ruwart
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 3:45 AM,
> <[1][2][5]david.demarest at lp.org>
>> wrote:
>> I change my vote to "YES" on the censure motion and ask
> others to
>> vote 'YES' and request the cancellation of the electronic
> meeting
>> to
>> consider suspension.
>> Arvin has audaciously and courageously challenged us to
> stop
>> speaking in tongues about our Libertarian principles. He
> has
>> correctly identified the fact that the opposition does a
> better
>> job
>> of describing our policy and positions than we do. We need
> to step
>> up to the plate with equal courage and get us back on track
> toward
>> our shared goal of freedom.
>> It is time to end this game of Russian roulette that Ms.
> Mattson
>> has
>> aptly described as a circular firing squad, this
>> political-correctness nightmare of timidity before voters
> and
>> pandemic get-elected-itis at the expense of not only our
>> principles
>> but any semblance of rationality. We have done enough
> damage to
>> the
>> Libertarian cause. Let us cease this endless cycle of
>> self-destruction before we plunge ourselves into a
> death-spiral of
>> reworded censure motions.
>> Good grief - enough already!
>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>> On 2018-01-29 22:11, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>> I hope my statement that the censure will fail is
> disproven. I am
>> disappointed in the yes votes changing to no. This
> censure is
>> woefully
>> inadequate, but it is not as woefully inadequate as
> nothing at
>> all.
>> What we heard from Arvin is a defense of Trump tactics.
> That
>> is
>> not
>> the LP I work for, recruit for, and donate for.
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Patrick McKnight
>>
>> <[1][2][3][6]patrick.mcknight at lp.org> wrote:
>> I vote yes. However I feel censure is
> insufficient and
>> look
>> forward to
>> the electronic meeting.
>> Thanks,
>> Patrick McKnight
>> Region 8 Rep
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:21 PM, Tim Hagan
>> <[1][2][3][4][7]tim.hagan at lp.org>
>>
>> wrote:
>> I vote yes.
>> ---
>> Tim Hagan
>> Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
>> On 2018-01-20 19:03, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by
> January 30,
>> 2018 at
>> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
>> Co-Sponsors: Hayes, Hewitt, Demarest, Hagan
>> Motion: to censure LNC Vice Chair Arvin Vohra
> for
>> repeated
>> public
>> comments which have presented libertarian ideas
> in an
>> inflammatory
>> and
>> sometimes offensive manner not conducive to
> Libertarian
>> leaders and
>> candidates for public office winning hearts and
> minds
>> for
>> those
>> ideas.
>> -Alicia
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>
>> [2][3][4][5][8]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> [3][4][5][6][9]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
>> /mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> References
>> 1. mailto:[5][6][7][10]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 2. mailto:[6][7][8][11]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 3. [7][8][9][12]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
>> ilman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> References
>> 1. mailto:[9][10][13]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> 2. mailto:[10][11][14]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 3. mailto:[11][12][15]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 4. [12][13][16]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 5. mailto:[13][14][17]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 6. mailto:[14][15][18]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 7. [15][16][19]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
>> mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> --
>> Arvin Vohra
>> [16][17][20]www.VoteVohra.com
>> [17][18][21]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>> [19](301) 320-3634
>> References
>> 1. mailto:[20][22]david.demarest at lp.org
>> 2. mailto:[21][23]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> 3. mailto:[22][24]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 4. mailto:[23][25]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 5.
> [24][26]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 6. mailto:[25][27]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 7. mailto:[26][28]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 8.
> [27][29]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 9. mailto:[28][30]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> 10. mailto:[29][31]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 11. mailto:[30][32]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 12.
> [31][33]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 13. mailto:[32][34]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 14. mailto:[33][35]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 15.
> [34][36]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 16. [35][37]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>> 17. mailto:[36][38]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:[39]votevohra at gmail.com
>> 2. mailto:[40]david.demarest at lp.org
>> 3. mailto:[41]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> 4. mailto:[42]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 5. mailto:[43]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 6. [44]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
>> 7. mailto:[45]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 8. mailto:[46]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 9. [47]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
>> 10. mailto:[48]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> 11. mailto:[49]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 12. mailto:[50]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 13. [51]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 14. mailto:[52]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 15. mailto:[53]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 16. [54]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 17. [55]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>> 18. mailto:[56]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>> 19. tel:(301) 320-3634
>> 20. mailto:[57]david.demarest at lp.org
>> 21. mailto:[58]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> 22. mailto:[59]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 23. mailto:[60]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 24. [61]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 25. mailto:[62]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 26. mailto:[63]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 27. [64]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 28. mailto:[65]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>> 29. mailto:[66]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 30. mailto:[67]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 31. [68]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 32. mailto:[69]tim.hagan at lp.org
>> 33. mailto:[70]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 34. [71]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>> 35. [72]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>> 36. mailto:[73]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 2. mailto:starchild at lp.org
> 3. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
> 4. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
> 5. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
> 6. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 7. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 8. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 9. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
> 10. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 11. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 12. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
> 13. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 14. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 15. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 16. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
> 17. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 18. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 19. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
> 20. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 21. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
> 22. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
> 23. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 24. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 25. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 26. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 27. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 28. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 29. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 30. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 31. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 32. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 33. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 34. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 35. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 36. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 37. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 38. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
> 39. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
> 40. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
> 41. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 42. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 43. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 44. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
> 45. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 46. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 47. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
> 48. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 49. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 50. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 51. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 52. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 53. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 54. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 55. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 56. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
> 57. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
> 58. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 59. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 60. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 61. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 62. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 63. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 64. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 65. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 66. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 67. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 68. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 69. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 70. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 71. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 72. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 73. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
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