[Lnc-business] Membership Recruitment
Daniel Hayes
daniel.hayes at lp.org
Mon Mar 12 14:06:48 EDT 2018
Do you think the organization runs for free? It takes money. I am sure our underpaid and overworked staff love to hear a board member say those things .
Do you want my LP time sheet too? It’s 50-80 hours every week. That’s not FB.
Frankly, when a board member publicly says they are only giving the minimum and not a penny more, that starts sounding like a breech of a fiduciary responsibility. It’s one thing to do and another thing to say publicly. I realize we have some members of the board in school and going through other struggles.
Here is a reality. I do my best to make sure that I am revenue neutral. I pay my way. I get that we have a lot of members that have a lot of good to say and do. THAT is why I give till it hurts and then I give some more to make it more accessible to others.
Most organizations have give or gets for their board. For us it’s entirely voluntary. That’s extra.
And our board IS pay to play. It’s $25. If paying to play is against your morals.. ooops! It’s not against mine. It’s just against my ethics to do the minimum.
It’s funny to be part of an organization that tries to shame people for being generous.
Daniel Hayes
LNC At Large Member
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 12, 2018, at 11:41 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>
> Well, Daniel I've heard you tell about the amounts you give to the LP numerous times on social media, so not sure why you also want to tell it here, but perhaps you like to talk about it?
>
> I'm not sure why people want to publicly talking about their giving, but I'm sure there's a reason.
>
> Is the T.E.A.M a pay-to-play one? You don't like that phrase? Then don't advocate for that set-up.
>
> You do think that you giving money makes the cause of liberty work that we ALL do, more important? (You wrote: "This is important to me.")
>
> If the efforts of libertarians or LP members, are being judged by how much money they contribute, then we're in trouble.
>
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
>
>
>> On 2018-03-12 12:04, Daniel Hayes wrote:
>> I am so I sick and tired of people from a region, where THIS committee
>> dropped HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars for ballot access, advocating
>> for people to give the bare minimum to the LNC.
>> It would be NICE if people started acting like a T.E.A.M. Stop trying
>> to play GOTCHA. Stop being against something because you don’t like
>> the person doing or advocating something.
>> I am so annoyed with people not wanting to GIVE more than the minimum
>> but wanting to manage what the others what others have given.
>> I am SICK and tired of people saying “pay to play”. Are things free? TANSTAAFL.
>> I consider it investing in something important to me. I am not rich.
>> I consider it my duty to give more than the minimum to boards on which
>> I serve. I find it makes it really easy for me to ask other people
>> for money. I give somewhere around 5% of my gross income to the LNC.
>> Throw in my state and local and candidate donations and all my costs
>> and it goes above 25% or more. This is important to me. People are
>> dying. And we are fighting over freaking T shirts. Give me a break.
>> Daniel Hayes
>> LNC At Large
>> Sent from my iPad
>>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 9:01 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>>> I wonder how many people will actually read the attached pdf.
>>> A little clause in the document: "...but at no time will the value of the inventory of shirts I’ve been provided be greater than the monetary donations I’ve contributed to the Libertarian National Committee in the prior twelve months..."
>>> This would make it so LNC members who aren't donating money to LP national, won't be part of the T-shirts-used-as-gifts to recruited members campaign. Even at cost, of $12 per shirt, an annual LP national membership would only allow two T-shirts. Hardly worth the trouble, eh?
>>> I loathe set-ups which clearly favor one (or multiple individual(s) over others, and that's what this is. A pay-to-play set-up.
>>> My donations, if I choose to do any, will be to LP political campaigns, not LP national. Nor, will I be paying national membership dues any sooner than annual, or any more than the least amount, for an annual membership. That is my choice for how I handle my money.
>>> So, I know that the T-shirts as-gifts for recruiting new members isn't intended for everyone.
>>> ---
>>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
>>> Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
>>> Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee
>>> Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
>>> http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>> On 2018-03-10 15:42, Wes Benedict wrote:
>>>> In a separate note, Steve Scheetz kindly offered to participate in
>>>> this program. I'm replying to this particular note instead of his, in
>>>> order to keep some of my historical notes on this topic easier to
>>>> find.
>>>> Attached is a draft of the plan in a bit more formal format for
>>>> feedback. Steve and others, take a look and let me know what you
>>>> think.
>>>> I'll see what feedback you all have, think it over a bit, and then
>>>> later decide next steps if any.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>>>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>>>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
>>>> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org
>>>> facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>>>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>>>> On 3/9/2018 9:42 AM, Wes Benedict wrote:
>>>>> The Libertarian Party has been offering T-shirts and other things as membership promotions for a long time.
>>>>> For example:
>>>>> https://www.lp.org/join11/
>>>>> https://www.lp.org/join10/
>>>>> https://www.lp.org/join9/
>>>>> If I remember correctly Caryn Ann started out recruiting members at state conventions without offering anything in return. As she did that work, members who had seen T-shirt offerings various places online would start to ask Caryn Ann "can I get a shirt since I joined."
>>>>> Our standard response to those who ask has been "yes we'll give you a shirt. What size do you wear?" and we ship them a shirt (polos excluded because they are higher cost").
>>>>> As a result of Caryn Ann recruiting so many members and members asking for shirts, quite some time ago I decided to provide a small supply of shirts to Caryn Ann to use when promoting memberships.
>>>>> If any other LNC members want to help recruit memberships, let me know, and I'll send you a small supply of these two shirts:
>>>>> https://lpstore.org/product/long-sleeve-black-t-shirt/
>>>>> https://lpstore.org/product/im-with-her-t-shirt/
>>>>> These shirts are to be used for membership recruitment purposes. Any you don't use should be returned to me in the future.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>>>>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>>>>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
>>>>> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org
>>>>> facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>>>>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>>>>> On 3/9/2018 8:56 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>> There is no service. Conversely in fact.
>>>>>> (and btw though not applicable it is an either/or in that statement)
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:55 AM Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>> <[1]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Caryn Ann, you're running for a national officer position. From the
>>>>>> LNC
>>>>>> Policy Manual page 46:
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>> "6) Limitations on Party Support for Party Office
>>>>>> Party resources shall not be used to provide information or services
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> any candidate for party
>>>>>> office unless:
>>>>>> • such information or services are available and announced on an
>>>>>> equal
>>>>>> basis to all
>>>>>> Libertarians who have declared they are seeking that office, or
>>>>>> • such information or services are generally available and announced
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> all party
>>>>>> members."
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> The above language isn't "either/or", which would indicate only one
>>>>>> condition applies. Both conditions apply.
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>> On 2018-03-09 01:56, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>> > I say let’s get everyone who wants to recruiting. I don’t see a
>>>>>> line
>>>>>> > forming after the last offer by Wes.
>>>>>> > And we are insanely territorial. And I will continue to point
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> > out.
>>>>>> > I don’t appreciate its existence.
>>>>>> > I almost as a joke was going to ask if I needed permission to
>>>>>> wear
>>>>>> > my
>>>>>> > Party issued name badge. Then I stopped and realized that the
>>>>>> > internal
>>>>>> > senseless politicking has reached Peak Poe’s Law and it is
>>>>>> > indistinguishable from a parody of itself and it could go
>>>>>> either
>>>>>> > way.
>>>>>> > I will be. Lodge objections now.
>>>>>> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 11:02 PM Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>> > <[1][2]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Caryn Ann, people can go to the website and sign-up for
>>>>>> > membership.
>>>>>> > I
>>>>>> > have no idea what you mean by "the standard membership pitch"
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> > standard supplies. Nor, do I appreciate you using terms
>>>>>> like,
>>>>>> > "insanely
>>>>>> > territorial and self-destructive", when I'm saying to you the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> > things I'd say to anyone who is running a campaign for a
>>>>>> national
>>>>>> > LP
>>>>>> > officer position. We currently have three people running for
>>>>>> > chair,
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>> > six or seven running for Vice-Chair, and two that I know of
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> > are
>>>>>> > running (maybe declared) for secretary. Gosh, at this rate,
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> > people
>>>>>> > may jump into the fray. Are all these people going to be
>>>>>> given
>>>>>> > the
>>>>>> > same
>>>>>> > materials? Some are making trips to a lot of state
>>>>>> conventions.
>>>>>> > Are those people going to be given the exact same supplies as
>>>>>> you?
>>>>>> > If
>>>>>> > the supplies are T-shirts and gifts, then do they all get
>>>>>> those to
>>>>>> > give
>>>>>> > to people while they campaign? What if they're signing-up
>>>>>> > national
>>>>>> > members? As it's easier to influence people when they're
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> > given
>>>>>> > something.
>>>>>> > You yourself wrote: "People sign up twice as much when they
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> > something in their hands on the spot." That goes for
>>>>>> campaigning
>>>>>> > too.
>>>>>> > I'm still not understanding why you send envelopes to LPHQ
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> > signing
>>>>>> > up members. I've never heard of anyone doing that. People I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> > just
>>>>>> > sign-up someone, and that's that. We're not keeping track or
>>>>>> > recording
>>>>>> > the numbers, as it's not a competition.
>>>>>> > Turning the tide on membership isn't going to happen with
>>>>>> > blitz-sign-ups
>>>>>> > at conventions. Daily I'm seeing people announce that they're
>>>>>> > leaving
>>>>>> > the LP. Some even shared with me information on new
>>>>>> political
>>>>>> > party
>>>>>> > they're attempting to start. (Former LP members who all just
>>>>>> left
>>>>>> > the LP
>>>>>> > this past year) The issue is a systemic one. When I mention
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> > issue,
>>>>>> > I get the usual reaction from the usual people. So, I expect
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> > different this time.
>>>>>> > If you wish to take up this issue at the April LNC meeting,
>>>>>> then I
>>>>>> > look
>>>>>> > forward to the discussion.
>>>>>> > ---
>>>>>> > Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>> > LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
>>>>>> > Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
>>>>>> > Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee
>>>>>> > Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
>>>>>> > [2][3]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> > On 2018-03-09 00:19, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>> > > Members are entitled to a free shirt.
>>>>>> > > All of us should be doing this and that opportunity is
>>>>>> > equally
>>>>>> > > available to all.
>>>>>> > > To say that successful recruiters who happen to be
>>>>>> running
>>>>>> > cannot
>>>>>> > > use
>>>>>> > > the standard membership pitch to me is where we get
>>>>>> insanely
>>>>>> > > territorial and self-destructive.
>>>>>> > > People sign up twice as much when they get something in
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> > hands
>>>>>> > > on
>>>>>> > > the spot.
>>>>>> > > I will get 100 more members. If I have to be hobbled by
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> > even
>>>>>> > > having the standard supplies, well - we aren’t
>>>>>> interested in
>>>>>> > signing
>>>>>> > > up
>>>>>> > > members because we are too concerned over our
>>>>>> internicence
>>>>>> > > calculations. And if that’s the case - I’m not setting
>>>>>> > myself
>>>>>> > up
>>>>>> > > for
>>>>>> > > failure. If I’m going to recruit, I’m going to kick
>>>>>> ass. If
>>>>>> > I’m
>>>>>> > > not
>>>>>> > > equipped for success then I’m going to put my energy
>>>>>> > elsewhere
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>> > > will
>>>>>> > > deliver to Wes in April the remainder and will not get
>>>>>> the 20
>>>>>> > at the
>>>>>> > > CO
>>>>>> > > convention which is my goal.
>>>>>> > > I would like the rest of the LNC to weigh in.
>>>>>> > > If not please consider this my request for agenda time
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> > April
>>>>>> > to
>>>>>> > > settle this.
>>>>>> > > -Caryn Ann
>>>>>> > > -Caryn Ann
>>>>>> > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:54 PM Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>> > > <[1][3][4]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > Caryn Ann, I think it's great that you do membership
>>>>>> > recruiting.
>>>>>> > > My concern would be if you're personal campaigning and
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> > using
>>>>>> > > membership supplies that are gifts/freebie things to
>>>>>> give
>>>>>> > to
>>>>>> > > prospective
>>>>>> > > recruits. (You'd mentioned T-shirts, in a past
>>>>>> > communication
>>>>>> > on
>>>>>> > > this
>>>>>> > > subject.) I'm not sure what membership supplies
>>>>>> you'd
>>>>>> > need,
>>>>>> > as
>>>>>> > > signing
>>>>>> > > up members can just be done with a laptop on the spot.
>>>>>> No
>>>>>> > need for
>>>>>> > > supplies. So, if you're not giving people gifts or
>>>>>> freebie
>>>>>> > stuff,
>>>>>> > > while
>>>>>> > > signing-up/campaigning, then I see no issue.
>>>>>> > > ---
>>>>>> > > Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>>> > > LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
>>>>>> > > Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
>>>>>> > > Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee
>>>>>> > > Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
>>>>>> > > [2][4][5]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> > > On 2018-03-08 23:34, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>> > > > Beginning April I will be at a convention nearly
>>>>>> every
>>>>>> > weekend,
>>>>>> > > some of
>>>>>> > > > them I am an invited guest speaker and other are
>>>>>> > campaign
>>>>>> > > trips.
>>>>>> > > > Is there any objection to my continuing my
>>>>>> membership
>>>>>> > > recruitment
>>>>>> > > > during these trips (no cost to the Party other
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> > the
>>>>>> > > membership
>>>>>> > > > supplies).
>>>>>> > > > --
>>>>>> > > > --
>>>>>> > > > In Liberty,
>>>>>> > > > Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> > > > Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National
>>>>>> > Committee
>>>>>> > > (Alaska,
>>>>>> > > > Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah,
>>>>>> > Wyoming,
>>>>>> > > > Washington)
>>>>>> > > > - [1]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > > > Communications Director, [2]Libertarian Party of
>>>>>> > Colorado
>>>>>> > > > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>> > > > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>> > > > We defend your rights
>>>>>> > > > And oppose the use of force
>>>>>> > > > Taxation is theft
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > References
>>>>>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > 1. mailto:[3]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > > > 2. [4][5][6]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > --
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > --
>>>>>> > > In Liberty,
>>>>>> > > Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> > > Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> > (Alaska,
>>>>>> > > Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah,
>>>>>> Wyoming,
>>>>>> > > Washington)
>>>>>> > > - [5]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > > Communications Director, [6]Libertarian Party of
>>>>>> Colorado
>>>>>> > > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>> > > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>> > > We defend your rights
>>>>>> > > And oppose the use of force
>>>>>> > > Taxation is theft
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > References
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> > > 1. mailto:[6][7]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> > > 2. [7][8]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> > > 3. mailto:[8]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > > 4. [9][9]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> > > 5. mailto:[10]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > > 6. [11][10]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > In Liberty,
>>>>>> > Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> > Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> (Alaska,
>>>>>> > Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>>> > Washington)
>>>>>> > - [12]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > Communications Director, [13]Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>> > We defend your rights
>>>>>> > And oppose the use of force
>>>>>> > Taxation is theft
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > References
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > 1. mailto:[11]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> > 2. [12]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> > 3. mailto:[13]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> > 4. [14]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> > 5. [15]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> > 6. mailto:[16]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> > 7. [17]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> > 8. mailto:[18]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > 9. [19]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> > 10. mailto:[20]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > 11. [21]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> > 12. mailto:[22]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> > 13. [23]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>>>>> - [24]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, [25]Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>> We defend your rights
>>>>>> And oppose the use of force
>>>>>> Taxation is theft
>>>>>> References
>>>>>> 1. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> 2. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> 3. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> 4. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> 5. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> 6. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> 7. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> 8. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> 9. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> 10. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> 11. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> 12. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> 13. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> 14. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> 15. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> 16. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>>>>>> 17. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>>>>>> 18. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> 19. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> 20. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> 21. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> 22. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> 23. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>>>> 24. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> 25. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
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