[Lnc-business] Concerned member

Caryn Ann Harlos caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Sat Apr 7 08:40:14 EDT 2018


Perfectly said Starchild.

You nailed why we have a Pledge and the protection it gives other members
that no one has the right to breach.

Without this caution our rhetoric can easily inspire such sentiments.

In fact that post could be written,

Bad Idea: Bombing children of Federal workers
Good Idea: Just bomb the adults

It’s not very funny is it?  And it doesn’t “cure”’it if then the author
went on to concede well of course not all the parents and urging readers to
ponder which parents.

We can have NOTHING to do with this.



On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 3:14 AM Starchild <starchild at lp.org> wrote:

>
>         Well put, both of you (Steven and Sam).
>
>         Jason, I appreciate and share your concern. If James Wood wrote
> that stuff, I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but I don't appreciate
> it.
>
>          The idea that Tim McVeigh was right to attack the federal
> government, but that he should have done proper reconnaissance so as to
> have been aware of the kids in the daycare center cynically believed to
> have been used by the Feds as deliberate human shields is not one I'm going
> to argue with on moral grounds.
>
>         However I will point out that given how governments have often
> treated those they label as "terrorists" or their associates, anyone who
> expresses an affinity, especially an organizational affinity, with
> terrorists; openly calls for responding to government violence with
> civilian violence; or even engages in actual violence such as Peter
> Hendrickson did – the NY Times magazine article you link (
> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html) is quite
> an interesting read – while actively associating themselves with the
> institutionally non-violent Libertarian Party and its followers, is in
> effect using US as their human shields.
>
>         A simpler and clearer example of this would be attending a
> peaceful anti-police-abuse demonstration, and while marching, running up to
> nearby police lines yelling at and threatening to punch a cop, and then
> running back into the midst of the peaceful demonstrators and rejoining the
> march. It exposes people and organizations to collateral damage they did
> not sign up for, including risk of direct physical harm.
>
>         If the Audacious Caucus is okay with this, I don't want to be
> associated with them. I don't want anybody using me as a human shield.
>
>         Deciding to take up arms against tyranny or actively work with
> those who do, and assume all the risks attendant to that choice, is a very
> personal decision for each individual to make. If and when I ever make that
> choice, I want it to be my choice alone – and if I make it, it will be to
> join FREEDOM FIGHTERS, not terrorists, "domestic" or otherwise.
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
>                                     ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                         RealReform at earthlink.net
>                                  (415) 625-FREE
>                                    @StarchildSF
>
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Sam Goldstein wrote:
>
> > Jason,
> >
> > I will also add to Mr. Nekhalia's comments below that Mr. Wood is not a
> current member of the national Libertarian Party.  You might contact the
> MILP to discuss your concerns with them since they do have a history of
> taking action against rogue members.
> >
> > In Liberty,
> >
> > ---
> > Sam Goldstein
> > Libertarian National Committee
> > 317-850-0726 Cell
> >
> > On 2018-04-06 13:03, steven.nekhaila at lp.org wrote:
> >> Hello Jason,
> >> Thank you for bringing this to our attention, this is not something
> >> the Libertarian National Committee can specifically address other than
> >> coaching the Libertarian Party of Michigan if they seek to take action
> >> against this member. If this individual decides to make credible
> >> threats, I would trust those who observe such threats to make the
> >> proper the call on action, whether its reporting it to the Michigan
> >> Libertarian Party or appropriate bodies as they see fit, there is
> >> nothing we can do as National. I do not wish to be dismissive of your
> >> concerns, but being associated with the Libertarian Party is to be
> >> associated with hundreds of thousands of others who call themselves
> >> libertarians and Libertarian Party members. Republicans, Democrats,
> >> and Libertarians are all capable of being "audacious" and saying
> >> something outrageous, even acting out, one person is not, however,
> >> representative of the whole. Your association with the party is the
> >> water that dilutes the pollution, I do not see the pollution as the
> >> reason to leave. You will find there is pollution everywhere you go.
> >> As for a shadow rising of the LNC, I am not overly concerned, while
> >> these small groups may be loud, they have no power unless they are
> >> elected by the delegates.
> >> In Liberty,
> >> Steven Nekhaila
> >> Region 2 Representative Alternate
> >> On 2018-04-06 11:35 AM, Someone Else wrote:
> >>> Greetings,
> >>> I became a foundation member of the National Party on 6/19/2017 and I
> >>> registered with my State party shortly before the 2016 election. I am
> >>> currently a precinct committeeman.
> >>> As someone who is considering whether or not to step up my involvement
> >>> or to go back to being a non-voting Independent,  I would like to
> >>> express a concern that I have regarding something I recently observed.
> >>> I hope this isn't simply dismissed as "Facebook Drama" or just the
> >>> Audacious Caucus doing their thing, because it goes beyond that.
> >>> I have attached a series of screenshots of comments made by Jeff Wood
> >>> of the Audacious Caucus and the Libertarian Party of Michigan in which
> >>> he cites the 1990 Scarborough Tax Day Mail Bombing as a source of
> >>> inspiration as well as defending the actions of Timothy McVeigh and
> >>> offers a "blanket invitation to domestic terrorists and violent drug
> >>> cartels" to join the Libertarian Party.  He also boldly states "I
> >>> fully intend to shoot police and soldiers with automatic weapons at
> >>> some point in my lifetime".
> >>> I shouldn't have to explain why this is a concern.  I realize the
> >>> whole Audacious thing is about being "so outrageous they can't be
> >>> ignored", but he is openly advocating for domestic terrorists to join
> >>> the party.  Between this and certain other members of the danger
> >>> caucus who claim to be actively recruiting Antifa, I am considering
> >>> withdrawing any future support for this Party as I cannot in good
> >>> conscience be associated with such things. My wife is already
> >>> reluctant to join and needless to say this has not helped me convince
> >>> her.
> >>> I am not going to presume to suggest what, if anything, the LNC should
> >>> do about this matter,  but I feel it is necessary to bring it to your
> >>> attention.  I will say that if the so-called "Shadow LNC Rising" aka
> >>> Audacious Caucus and their affiliated groups ever gain a significant
> >>> foothold in the LP beyond their little echo chamber (which certainly
> >>> appears to be their goal) I will leave and never look back.
> >>> Thank you for your time.  Please view and consider the attachments.
> >>> In Liberty,
> >>> Jason Gillam, MCLP PCM
>
> --
-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
   Perfectly said Starchild.

   You nailed why we have a Pledge and the protection it gives other
   members that no one has the right to breach.

   Without this caution our rhetoric can easily inspire such sentiments.

   In fact that post could be written,

   Bad Idea: Bombing children of Federal workers

   Good Idea: Just bomb the adults

   It’s not very funny is it?  And it doesn’t “cure”’it if then the author
   went on to concede well of course not all the parents and urging
   readers to ponder which parents.

   We can have NOTHING to do with this.

   On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 3:14 AM Starchild <[1]starchild at lp.org> wrote:

             Well put, both of you (Steven and Sam).
             Jason, I appreciate and share your concern. If James Wood
     wrote that stuff, I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but I
     don't appreciate it.
              The idea that Tim McVeigh was right to attack the federal
     government, but that he should have done proper reconnaissance so as
     to have been aware of the kids in the daycare center cynically
     believed to have been used by the Feds as deliberate human shields
     is not one I'm going to argue with on moral grounds.
             However I will point out that given how governments have
     often treated those they label as "terrorists" or their associates,
     anyone who expresses an affinity, especially an organizational
     affinity, with terrorists; openly calls for responding to government
     violence with civilian violence; or even engages in actual violence
     such as Peter Hendrickson did – the NY Times magazine article you
     link
     ([2]https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html)
     is quite an interesting read – while actively associating themselves
     with the institutionally non-violent Libertarian Party and its
     followers, is in effect using US as their human shields.
             A simpler and clearer example of this would be attending a
     peaceful anti-police-abuse demonstration, and while marching,
     running up to nearby police lines yelling at and threatening to
     punch a cop, and then running back into the midst of the peaceful
     demonstrators and rejoining the march. It exposes people and
     organizations to collateral damage they did not sign up for,
     including risk of direct physical harm.
             If the Audacious Caucus is okay with this, I don't want to
     be associated with them. I don't want anybody using me as a human
     shield.
             Deciding to take up arms against tyranny or actively work
     with those who do, and assume all the risks attendant to that
     choice, is a very personal decision for each individual to make. If
     and when I ever make that choice, I want it to be my choice alone –
     and if I make it, it will be to join FREEDOM FIGHTERS, not
     terrorists, "domestic" or otherwise.
     Love & Liberty,
                                         ((( starchild )))
     At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
                             [3]RealReform at earthlink.net
                                      (415) 625-FREE
                                        @StarchildSF
     On Apr 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Sam Goldstein wrote:
     > Jason,
     >
     > I will also add to Mr. Nekhalia's comments below that Mr. Wood is
     not a current member of the national Libertarian Party.  You might
     contact the MILP to discuss your concerns with them since they do
     have a history of taking action against rogue members.
     >
     > In Liberty,
     >
     > ---
     > Sam Goldstein
     > Libertarian National Committee
     > 317-850-0726 Cell
     >
     > On 2018-04-06 13:03, [4]steven.nekhaila at lp.org wrote:
     >> Hello Jason,
     >> Thank you for bringing this to our attention, this is not
     something
     >> the Libertarian National Committee can specifically address other
     than
     >> coaching the Libertarian Party of Michigan if they seek to take
     action
     >> against this member. If this individual decides to make credible
     >> threats, I would trust those who observe such threats to make the
     >> proper the call on action, whether its reporting it to the
     Michigan
     >> Libertarian Party or appropriate bodies as they see fit, there is
     >> nothing we can do as National. I do not wish to be dismissive of
     your
     >> concerns, but being associated with the Libertarian Party is to
     be
     >> associated with hundreds of thousands of others who call
     themselves
     >> libertarians and Libertarian Party members. Republicans,
     Democrats,
     >> and Libertarians are all capable of being "audacious" and saying
     >> something outrageous, even acting out, one person is not,
     however,
     >> representative of the whole. Your association with the party is
     the
     >> water that dilutes the pollution, I do not see the pollution as
     the
     >> reason to leave. You will find there is pollution everywhere you
     go.
     >> As for a shadow rising of the LNC, I am not overly concerned,
     while
     >> these small groups may be loud, they have no power unless they
     are
     >> elected by the delegates.
     >> In Liberty,
     >> Steven Nekhaila
     >> Region 2 Representative Alternate
     >> On 2018-04-06 11:35 AM, Someone Else wrote:
     >>> Greetings,
     >>> I became a foundation member of the National Party on 6/19/2017
     and I
     >>> registered with my State party shortly before the 2016 election.
     I am
     >>> currently a precinct committeeman.
     >>> As someone who is considering whether or not to step up my
     involvement
     >>> or to go back to being a non-voting Independent,  I would like
     to
     >>> express a concern that I have regarding something I recently
     observed.
     >>> I hope this isn't simply dismissed as "Facebook Drama" or just
     the
     >>> Audacious Caucus doing their thing, because it goes beyond that.
     >>> I have attached a series of screenshots of comments made by Jeff
     Wood
     >>> of the Audacious Caucus and the Libertarian Party of Michigan in
     which
     >>> he cites the 1990 Scarborough Tax Day Mail Bombing as a source
     of
     >>> inspiration as well as defending the actions of Timothy McVeigh
     and
     >>> offers a "blanket invitation to domestic terrorists and violent
     drug
     >>> cartels" to join the Libertarian Party.  He also boldly states
     "I
     >>> fully intend to shoot police and soldiers with automatic weapons
     at
     >>> some point in my lifetime".
     >>> I shouldn't have to explain why this is a concern.  I realize
     the
     >>> whole Audacious thing is about being "so outrageous they can't
     be
     >>> ignored", but he is openly advocating for domestic terrorists to
     join
     >>> the party.  Between this and certain other members of the danger
     >>> caucus who claim to be actively recruiting Antifa, I am
     considering
     >>> withdrawing any future support for this Party as I cannot in
     good
     >>> conscience be associated with such things. My wife is already
     >>> reluctant to join and needless to say this has not helped me
     convince
     >>> her.
     >>> I am not going to presume to suggest what, if anything, the LNC
     should
     >>> do about this matter,  but I feel it is necessary to bring it to
     your
     >>> attention.  I will say that if the so-called "Shadow LNC Rising"
     aka
     >>> Audacious Caucus and their affiliated groups ever gain a
     significant
     >>> foothold in the LP beyond their little echo chamber (which
     certainly
     >>> appears to be their goal) I will leave and never look back.
     >>> Thank you for your time.  Please view and consider the
     attachments.
     >>> In Liberty,
     >>> Jason Gillam, MCLP PCM

   --

   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
   Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
   - [5]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
   Communications Director, [6]Libertarian Party of Colorado
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

References

   1. mailto:starchild at lp.org
   2. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html
   3. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
   4. mailto:steven.nekhaila at lp.org
   5. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
   6. http://www.lpcolorado.org/


More information about the Lnc-business mailing list