[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-11: ACKNOWLEDGE ELECTION OF JC
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Mon Jul 9 20:55:35 EDT 2018
Oh my goodness. I am sorry but this is beyond belief.
I think our elections were handled wrongfully and I am supposed to NOT yell
it from the rooftops? What Party am I in again?
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:52 PM, John Phillips via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Agreed, to a point. At some time, preaching to the choir becomes counter
> productive. As noted earlier, we are all aware that it sucked, and is a
> bad situation with no easy fix that will make everyone happy immediately.
> We all want to fix it, and fix it yesterday. I even agree with all of
> Caryn Ann's points, and yours. Bring it up once a week. Absolutely.
> Don't bring it up 5 times a day. Stopping multiple times to read the same
> arguments takes away time from working on fixing it, and promoting the
> party in other ways. I love the passion, I really do, but beating us up
> continually on a point we 90% or more agree on IS counterproductive. Let's
> move on and FIX IT.
>
> Don't shut up, but let's be productive, let's not let this crap happen
> again.
>
> John Phillips
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> Cell 217-412-5973
>
>
> On 7/9/2018 7:39 PM, Craig Bowden via Lnc-business wrote:
>
>> Looking out for the membership and delegates is nothing to be quiet
>> about. I personally hope it is brought up at least once a week until
>> solutions are in place to prevent it from ever happening again.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Craig Bowden
>> Region 1 Alternate
>>
>> On 2018-07-09 18:33, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>
>>> I respectfully decline.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Sam Goldstein <[1]
>>> sam.goldstein at lp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Caryn Ann,
>>> Just shut up about this already!
>>> Respectfully,
>>> ---
>>> Sam Goldstein
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> 317-850-0726 Cell
>>>
>>> On 2018-07-09 18:34, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>
>>> PS: Before this vote ends, I am going to put something together to
>>> try
>>> to convince you that this is actually one of the worst ways to
>>> solve.
>>> My first issue - that of steering the delegates down that road with
>>> at-large is unsolvable- at least unsolvable in any way that we
>>> would
>>> ever do. If it were up to me, I would punt it all back to the
>>> delegates.
>>> The second issue - of how to handle this situation with the JC -
>>> well
>>> we are trying to solve it now and I think we are solving it wrong
>>> both
>>> ethically and procedurally.
>>> And a remaining issue - is one where me and RONR come into
>>> conflict.
>>> Rules are tools. Just because a rule allows something doesn't mean
>>> it
>>> is right, and this is probably why the first issue is sticking in
>>> my
>>> craw so badly. It is fundamentally NOT RIGHT to change the rules
>>> of
>>> an
>>> election mid-way. There is a huge difference between majority and
>>> plurality and our candidates deserve to know as it effects the way
>>> they
>>> campaign. We treated them and their efforts as pawns, and it isn't
>>> right.
>>> I know some of you are thinking, just shut up about this already.
>>> Well, I am a hard-nose on some things, and this is one of them.
>>> Just
>>> like it was with the eternal secrecy clause last term.
>>> The only way we are going to learn as an organization is if this is
>>> a
>>> bit painful. And in so doing we will model over-the-top integrity
>>> to
>>> our members rather than political expediency.
>>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:36 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>
>>> <[1][2]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>> ==I get the anger. I'm angry. When we ultimately do get the
>>> state-by-state tallies, I'm sure we'll find that hundreds of
>>> delegates
>>> didn't even vote in the two races because we put them off so long.
>>> In
>>> the 2016 convention, whole states didn't cast votes in the At-Large
>>> and
>>> JC races. Them's the rules - elections are won by those who stay
>>> and
>>> vote - but oh my did we make it hard. The combination of voting
>>> methodology, tabulation method, and scheduling left us in a bad
>>> place.===
>>> You mean we ran in front of a racing car and now are surprised we
>>> got
>>> ran over?
>>> But it is more than that. The delegates were led to make a
>>> decision
>>> in
>>> a certain direction. There WERE other options. Whether or not one
>>> agrees with the voting methodology, it is the methodology and its
>>> intent was to use approval voting to show approval and we turned it
>>> on
>>> its head. Why weren't the delegates given other options?
>>> ==All that said, I don't want to just be angry and complain. As far
>>> as
>>> actions that can be taken, this resolution is the most reasonable.
>>> Other possibilities - revotes or mail votes of all Party members or
>>> us
>>> filling the JC seats or setting multiple JCs in motion - are even
>>> more
>>> violative of the Bylaws and Rules.==
>>> Are they all? I don't think so. And I do think my very real
>>> complaint
>>> of how the delegates were steered in a certain direction is being
>>> ignored at best (or maligned at worst).
>>> ==The contrary view admittedly rests on a thread of legality: the
>>> delegates expressed their wish to take the top at-large candidates
>>> and
>>> the Bylaws say the same applies for the JC. There's also no doubt
>>> in
>>> my
>>> mind that had they been asked they would have done the same for the
>>> JC.
>>> A room of several hundred Libertarians were not coerced into doing
>>> that
>>> - they went with what Nick suggested because that's what they
>>> wanted
>>> to
>>> do. He just told them how.===
>>> And that is where the dispute is. Most of the people there trusted
>>> us
>>> (I use us as Nick was acting as the spokesperson of the LNC and
>>> this
>>> isn't about Nick ultimately) not to tell them what they wanted.
>>> They
>>> were presented with two choices in which they were led down a
>>> particular path. You are an attorney Joe, you know exactly what I
>>> am
>>> getting at here.
>>> Do you really think that if they were offered a majority rising
>>> vote
>>> on
>>> the spot to choose between options they would not have taken that?
>>> It
>>> never ocurred to most of them that there WERE any other options.
>>> It
>>> didn't immediately occur to me and I am well-versed in this stuff.
>>> It
>>> stinks. If a government acted this way we would be all lathered
>>> up.
>>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Joe Bishop-Henchman
>>>
>>> <[2][3]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org> wrote:
>>> I get the anger. I'm angry. When we ultimately do get the
>>> state-by-state tallies, I'm sure we'll find that hundreds of
>>> delegates didn't even vote in the two races because we put them
>>> off
>>> so long. In the 2016 convention, whole states didn't cast votes
>>> in
>>> the At-Large and JC races. Them's the rules - elections are won
>>> by
>>> those who stay and vote - but oh my did we make it hard. The
>>> combination of voting methodology, tabulation method, and
>>> scheduling
>>> left us in a bad place.
>>> All that said, I don't want to just be angry and complain. As far
>>> as
>>> actions that can be taken, this resolution is the most
>>> reasonable.
>>> Other possibilities - revotes or mail votes of all Party members
>>> or
>>> us filling the JC seats or setting multiple JCs in motion - are
>>> even
>>> more violative of the Bylaws and Rules.
>>> I do not dispute that one can reasonably argue that every JC
>>> candidate was disapproved and that it should sit empty until
>>> 2022.
>>> The contrary view admittedly rests on a thread of legality: the
>>> delegates expressed their wish to take the top at-large
>>> candidates
>>> and the Bylaws say the same applies for the JC. There's also no
>>> doubt in my mind that had they been asked they would have done
>>> the
>>> same for the JC. A room of several hundred Libertarians were not
>>> coerced into doing that - they went with what Nick suggested
>>> because
>>> that's what they wanted to do. He just told them how. They didn't
>>> want the LNC fighting over who would fill the seats if they were
>>> left vacant.
>>> I doubt I'm going to convince you but I did want to write this to
>>> emphasize that at least I am not sanguine or sweeping anything
>>> blithely under the rug. I expect rethinking how we do elections
>>> will
>>> be a big priority for many of us.
>>> JBH
>>> On 2018-07-09 16:46, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>> Suspension of the rules has to be specific and there is no way
>>> around
>>> the fact that we used the number 5 over and over.
>>> This is taking things to an even deeper level of improper. I
>>> object to
>>> the whole at-Large process- I don’t think the delegates made
>>> an
>>> independent choice and now to just infer this upon that is two
>>> bridges
>>> too far.
>>> This is a big screwup and I won’t be part of sweeping it under
>>> the rug.
>>> It alarms me to no end how blithely the whole situation is
>>> being
>>> taken.
>>> There are people looking at us and seeing nothing different
>>> than
>>> the
>>> government we wish to reform.
>>> There was a controversial election and at least one state
>>> chair
>>> and
>>> candidate has been asking for the state by state rallies with
>>> no
>>> time
>>> frame given him.
>>> The whole thing was an affront to people expecting an entirely
>>> different thing when they ran. I will not be sanguine about
>>> it.
>>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 2:20 PM Whitney Bilyeu
>>>
>>> <[1][3][4]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org> wrote:
>>> This point did come up immediately after adjournment, while
>>> Nick
>>> was
>>> still at the mic. I don't recall who brought it up, but the
>>> statement
>>> was made that it would follow the same procedure as At-Large
>>> at
>>> that
>>> point, since we were no longer in session.
>>> No one raised the question prior to that.
>>> Whitney Bilyeu
>>> Region 7 Representative
>>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
>>> Lnc-business
>>> <[2][4][5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> Joshua they were not given a choice on this. The JC
>>> never
>>> came
>>> up.
>>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 11:47 AM
>>> <[1][3][5][6]joshua.smith at lp.org>
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>> I vote yes. Given that the delegates were given the
>>> choice
>>> at
>>> convention
>>> just a few short days ago, I believe we should respect
>>> that
>>> decision.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Joshua D. Smith
>>> On 2018-07-07 22:23, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>>> wrote:
>>> > We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due to the
>>> LNC-Business
>>> > list by July 14, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
>>> Co-Sponsors:
>>> > Bishop-Henchman, Goldstein, Hagan, Merced, Van Horn
>>> Motion:
>>> Move
>>> > that
>>> > the Libertarian National Committee acknowledge the
>>> election of
>>> the
>>> > following to the Judicial Committee for a four-year
>>> term:
>>> D.
>>> Frank
>>> > Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry, Ruth Bennett,
>>> Geoff
>>> Neale,
>>> > Jim
>>> > Turney, and Tricia Sprankle. You can keep track of
>>> the
>>> Secretary's
>>> > manual tally of votes here:
>>>
>>> [1][2][4][6][7]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> > --
>>> > --
>>> > In Liberty,
>>> > Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> > Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National
>>> Committee
>>> (Alaska,
>>> > Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana,
>>> Utah,
>>> Wyoming,
>>> > Washington)
>>> > - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>> > Communications Director, [3]Libertarian Party of
>>> Colorado
>>> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> > We defend your rights
>>> > And oppose the use of force
>>> > Taxation is theft
>>> >
>>> > References
>>> >
>>> > 1. [3][5][7][8]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> > 2. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> > 3. [5][6][8][9]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>>> Secretary
>>> - [6]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
>>> LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>> References
>>> 1. mailto:[7][9][10]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 2. [8][10][11]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 3. [9][11][12]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 4. mailto:[10]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 5. [11][12][13]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 6. mailto:[12]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>>> Secretary
>>> - [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>> References
>>> 1. mailto:[13][14]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>> 2. mailto:[14][15]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 3. mailto:[15][16]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 4. [16][17]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 5. [17][18]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 6. [18][19]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 7. mailto:[19][20]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 8. [20][21]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 9. [21][22]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 10. mailto:[22]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 11. [23][23]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 12. mailto:[24]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 13. mailto:[25]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> --
>>> JBH
>>> ------------
>>> Joe Bishop-Henchman
>>> LNC Member (At-Large)
>>> [26][24]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>> [27][25]www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>> - [28]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>> - [29]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>> References
>>> 1. mailto:[26]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>> 2. mailto:[27]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>> 3. mailto:[28]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>> 4. mailto:[29]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 5. mailto:[30]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 6. [31]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 7. [32]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 8. [33]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 9. mailto:[34]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 10. [35]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 11. [36]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 12. [37]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 13. mailto:[38]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>> 14. mailto:[39]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 15. mailto:[40]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 16. [41]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 17. [42]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 18. [43]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 19. mailto:[44]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 20. [45]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 21. [46]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 22. mailto:[47]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 23. [48]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 24. mailto:[49]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 25. mailto:[50]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 26. mailto:[51]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>> 27. [52]http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>>> 28. mailto:[53]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 29. mailto:[54]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>> - [55]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> 1. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
>>> 2. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>> 3. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>> 4. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>> 5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 6. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 7. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 8. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 9. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 10. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 11. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 12. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 13. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 14. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>> 15. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 16. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 17. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 18. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 19. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 20. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 21. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 22. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 23. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 24. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>> 25. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>>> 26. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>> 27. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>> 28. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>> 29. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 30. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 31. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 32. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 33. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 34. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 35. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 36. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 37. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 38. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>> 39. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 40. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 41. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 42. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 43. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 44. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>> 45. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 46. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 47. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 48. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 49. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 50. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 51. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>> 52. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>>> 53. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 54. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 55. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
Oh my goodness. I am sorry but this is beyond belief.
I think our elections were handled wrongfully and I am supposed to NOT
yell it from the rooftops? What Party am I in again?
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:52 PM, John Phillips via Lnc-business
<[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Agreed, to a point. At some time, preaching to the choir becomes
counter productive. As noted earlier, we are all aware that it
sucked, and is a bad situation with no easy fix that will make
everyone happy immediately. We all want to fix it, and fix it
yesterday. I even agree with all of Caryn Ann's points, and yours.
Bring it up once a week. Absolutely. Don't bring it up 5 times a
day. Stopping multiple times to read the same arguments takes away
time from working on fixing it, and promoting the party in other
ways. I love the passion, I really do, but beating us up continually
on a point we 90% or more agree on IS counterproductive. Let's move
on and FIX IT.
Don't shut up, but let's be productive, let's not let this crap
happen again.
John Phillips
Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
Cell 217-412-5973
On 7/9/2018 7:39 PM, Craig Bowden via Lnc-business wrote:
Looking out for the membership and delegates is nothing to be quiet
about. I personally hope it is brought up at least once a week until
solutions are in place to prevent it from ever happening again.
Respectfully,
Craig Bowden
Region 1 Alternate
On 2018-07-09 18:33, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
I respectfully decline.
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Sam Goldstein
<[1][2]sam.goldstein at lp.org>
wrote:
Caryn Ann,
Just shut up about this already!
Respectfully,
---
Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
317-850-0726 Cell
On 2018-07-09 18:34, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
PS: Before this vote ends, I am going to put something together
to try
to convince you that this is actually one of the worst ways to
solve.
My first issue - that of steering the delegates down that road
with
at-large is unsolvable- at least unsolvable in any way that we
would
ever do. If it were up to me, I would punt it all back to the
delegates.
The second issue - of how to handle this situation with the JC
-
well
we are trying to solve it now and I think we are solving it
wrong
both
ethically and procedurally.
And a remaining issue - is one where me and RONR come into
conflict.
Rules are tools. Just because a rule allows something doesn't
mean
it
is right, and this is probably why the first issue is sticking
in my
craw so badly. It is fundamentally NOT RIGHT to change the
rules of
an
election mid-way. There is a huge difference between majority
and
plurality and our candidates deserve to know as it effects the
way
they
campaign. We treated them and their efforts as pawns, and it
isn't
right.
I know some of you are thinking, just shut up about this
already.
Well, I am a hard-nose on some things, and this is one of
them.
Just
like it was with the eternal secrecy clause last term.
The only way we are going to learn as an organization is if
this is
a
bit painful. And in so doing we will model over-the-top
integrity
to
our members rather than political expediency.
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:36 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
<[1][2][3]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
==I get the anger. I'm angry. When we ultimately do get the
state-by-state tallies, I'm sure we'll find that hundreds of
delegates
didn't even vote in the two races because we put them off so
long.
In
the 2016 convention, whole states didn't cast votes in the
At-Large
and
JC races. Them's the rules - elections are won by those who
stay and
vote - but oh my did we make it hard. The combination of
voting
methodology, tabulation method, and scheduling left us in a
bad
place.===
You mean we ran in front of a racing car and now are surprised
we
got
ran over?
But it is more than that. The delegates were led to make a
decision
in
a certain direction. There WERE other options. Whether or
not one
agrees with the voting methodology, it is the methodology and
its
intent was to use approval voting to show approval and we
turned it
on
its head. Why weren't the delegates given other options?
==All that said, I don't want to just be angry and complain.
As far
as
actions that can be taken, this resolution is the most
reasonable.
Other possibilities - revotes or mail votes of all Party
members or
us
filling the JC seats or setting multiple JCs in motion - are
even
more
violative of the Bylaws and Rules.==
Are they all? I don't think so. And I do think my very real
complaint
of how the delegates were steered in a certain direction is
being
ignored at best (or maligned at worst).
==The contrary view admittedly rests on a thread of legality:
the
delegates expressed their wish to take the top at-large
candidates
and
the Bylaws say the same applies for the JC. There's also no
doubt in
my
mind that had they been asked they would have done the same
for the
JC.
A room of several hundred Libertarians were not coerced into
doing
that
- they went with what Nick suggested because that's what they
wanted
to
do. He just told them how.===
And that is where the dispute is. Most of the people there
trusted
us
(I use us as Nick was acting as the spokesperson of the LNC
and this
isn't about Nick ultimately) not to tell them what they
wanted.
They
were presented with two choices in which they were led down a
particular path. You are an attorney Joe, you know exactly
what I
am
getting at here.
Do you really think that if they were offered a majority
rising vote
on
the spot to choose between options they would not have taken
that?
It
never ocurred to most of them that there WERE any other
options. It
didn't immediately occur to me and I am well-versed in this
stuff.
It
stinks. If a government acted this way we would be all
lathered up.
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Joe Bishop-Henchman
<[2][3][4]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org> wrote:
I get the anger. I'm angry. When we ultimately do get the
state-by-state tallies, I'm sure we'll find that hundreds of
delegates didn't even vote in the two races because we put
them
off
so long. In the 2016 convention, whole states didn't cast
votes in
the At-Large and JC races. Them's the rules - elections are
won by
those who stay and vote - but oh my did we make it hard. The
combination of voting methodology, tabulation method, and
scheduling
left us in a bad place.
All that said, I don't want to just be angry and complain.
As far
as
actions that can be taken, this resolution is the most
reasonable.
Other possibilities - revotes or mail votes of all Party
members
or
us filling the JC seats or setting multiple JCs in motion -
are
even
more violative of the Bylaws and Rules.
I do not dispute that one can reasonably argue that every JC
candidate was disapproved and that it should sit empty until
2022.
The contrary view admittedly rests on a thread of legality:
the
delegates expressed their wish to take the top at-large
candidates
and the Bylaws say the same applies for the JC. There's also
no
doubt in my mind that had they been asked they would have
done the
same for the JC. A room of several hundred Libertarians were
not
coerced into doing that - they went with what Nick suggested
because
that's what they wanted to do. He just told them how. They
didn't
want the LNC fighting over who would fill the seats if they
were
left vacant.
I doubt I'm going to convince you but I did want to write
this to
emphasize that at least I am not sanguine or sweeping
anything
blithely under the rug. I expect rethinking how we do
elections
will
be a big priority for many of us.
JBH
On 2018-07-09 16:46, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
wrote:
Suspension of the rules has to be specific and there is no
way
around
the fact that we used the number 5 over and over.
This is taking things to an even deeper level of
improper. I
object to
the whole at-Large process- I don’t think the delegates
made an
independent choice and now to just infer this upon that
is two
bridges
too far.
This is a big screwup and I won’t be part of sweeping it
under
the rug.
It alarms me to no end how blithely the whole situation
is
being
taken.
There are people looking at us and seeing nothing
different
than
the
government we wish to reform.
There was a controversial election and at least one state
chair
and
candidate has been asking for the state by state rallies
with
no
time
frame given him.
The whole thing was an affront to people expecting an
entirely
different thing when they ran. I will not be sanguine
about
it.
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 2:20 PM Whitney Bilyeu
<[1][3][4][5]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org> wrote:
This point did come up immediately after adjournment,
while
Nick
was
still at the mic. I don't recall who brought it up, but
the
statement
was made that it would follow the same procedure as
At-Large
at
that
point, since we were no longer in session.
No one raised the question prior to that.
Whitney Bilyeu
Region 7 Representative
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
Lnc-business
<[2][4][5][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Joshua they were not given a choice on this. The
JC
never
came
up.
On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 11:47 AM
<[1][3][5][6][7]joshua.smith at lp.org>
wrote:
I vote yes. Given that the delegates were given the
choice
at
convention
just a few short days ago, I believe we should
respect
that
decision.
Thanks,
Joshua D. Smith
On 2018-07-07 22:23, Caryn Ann Harlos via
Lnc-business
wrote:
> We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due
to the
LNC-Business
> list by July 14, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific
time.
Co-Sponsors:
> Bishop-Henchman, Goldstein, Hagan, Merced, Van
Horn
Motion:
Move
> that
> the Libertarian National Committee acknowledge
the
election of
the
> following to the Judicial Committee for a
four-year
term:
D.
Frank
> Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry, Ruth
Bennett,
Geoff
Neale,
> Jim
> Turney, and Tricia Sprankle. You can keep track
of
the
Secretary's
> manual tally of votes here:
[1][2][4][6][7][8]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> --
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian
National
Committee
(Alaska,
> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana,
Utah,
Wyoming,
> Washington)
> - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, [3]Libertarian
Party of
Colorado
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. [3][5][7][8][9]https://tinyurl.co
m/lncvoting
> 2. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 3. [5][6][8][9][10]http://www.lpcolor
ado.org/
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National
Committee
Secretary
- [6]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:[7][9][10][11]joshua.smith at lp.org
2. [8][10][11][12]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
3. [9][11][12][13]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
4. mailto:[10]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
5. [11][12][13][14]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
6. mailto:[12]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary
- [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:[13][14][15]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
2. mailto:[14][15][16]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. mailto:[15][16][17]joshua.smith at lp.org
4. [16][17][18]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
5. [17][18][19]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
6. [18][19][20]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
7. mailto:[19][20][21]joshua.smith at lp.org
8. [20][21][22]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
9. [21][22][23]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
10. mailto:[22]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
11. [23][23][24]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
12. mailto:[24]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
13. mailto:[25]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
JBH
------------
Joe Bishop-Henchman
LNC Member (At-Large)
[26][24][25]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
[27][25][26]www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary
- [28]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary
- [29]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:[26][27]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
2. mailto:[27][28]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
3. mailto:[28][29]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
4. mailto:[29][30]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
5. mailto:[30][31]joshua.smith at lp.org
6. [31][32]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
7. [32][33]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
8. [33][34]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
9. mailto:[34][35]joshua.smith at lp.org
10. [35][36]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
11. [36][37]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
12. [37][38]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
13. mailto:[38][39]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
14. mailto:[39][40]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
15. mailto:[40][41]joshua.smith at lp.org
16. [41][42]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
17. [42][43]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
18. [43][44]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
19. mailto:[44][45]joshua.smith at lp.org
20. [45][46]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
21. [46][47]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
22. mailto:[47]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
23. [48][48]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
24. mailto:[49]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
25. mailto:[50]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
26. mailto:[51][49]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
27. [52][50]http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
28. mailto:[53]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
29. mailto:[54]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
- [55]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:[51]sam.goldstein at lp.org
2. mailto:[52]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
3. mailto:[53]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
4. mailto:[54]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
5. mailto:[55]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
6. mailto:[56]joshua.smith at lp.org
7. [57]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
8. [58]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
9. [59]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
10. mailto:[60]joshua.smith at lp.org
11. [61]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
12. [62]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
13. [63]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
14. mailto:[64]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
15. mailto:[65]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
16. mailto:[66]joshua.smith at lp.org
17. [67]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
18. [68]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
19. [69]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
20. mailto:[70]joshua.smith at lp.org
21. [71]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
22. [72]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
23. [73]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
24. mailto:[74]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
25. [75]http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
26. mailto:[76]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
27. mailto:[77]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
28. mailto:[78]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
29. mailto:[79]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
30. mailto:[80]joshua.smith at lp.org
31. [81]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
32. [82]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
33. [83]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
34. mailto:[84]joshua.smith at lp.org
35. [85]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
36. [86]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
37. [87]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
38. mailto:[88]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
39. mailto:[89]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
40. mailto:[90]joshua.smith at lp.org
41. [91]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
42. [92]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
43. [93]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
44. mailto:[94]joshua.smith at lp.org
45. [95]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
46. [96]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
47. mailto:[97]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
48. [98]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
49. mailto:[99]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
50. mailto:[100]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
51. mailto:[101]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
52. [102]http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
53. mailto:[103]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
54. mailto:[104]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
55. mailto:[105]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
- [106]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
3. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
4. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
5. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
7. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
8. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
9. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
10. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
11. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
12. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
13. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
14. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
15. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
16. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
17. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
18. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
19. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
20. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
21. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
22. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
23. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
24. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
25. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
26. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
27. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
28. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
29. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
30. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
31. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
32. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
33. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
34. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
35. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
36. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
37. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
38. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
39. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
40. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
41. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
42. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
43. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
44. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
45. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
46. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
47. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
48. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
49. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
50. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
51. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
52. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
53. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
54. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
55. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
56. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
57. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
58. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
59. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
60. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
61. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
62. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
63. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
64. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
65. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
66. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
67. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
68. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
69. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
70. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
71. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
72. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
73. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
74. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
75. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
76. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
77. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
78. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
79. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
80. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
81. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
82. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
83. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
84. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
85. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
86. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
87. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
88. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
89. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
90. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
91. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
92. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
93. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
94. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
95. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
96. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
97. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
98. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
99. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
100. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
101. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
102. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
103. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
104. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
105. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
106. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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