[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-11: ACKNOWLEDGE ELECTION OF JC

Caryn Ann Harlos caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Mon Jul 9 20:55:35 EDT 2018


Oh my goodness.  I am sorry but this is beyond belief.

I think our elections were handled wrongfully and I am supposed to NOT yell
it from the rooftops?  What Party am I in again?

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:52 PM, John Phillips via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> Agreed, to a point.  At some time, preaching to the choir becomes counter
> productive.  As noted earlier, we are all aware that it sucked, and is a
> bad situation with no easy fix that will make everyone happy immediately.
> We all want to fix it, and fix it yesterday.  I even agree with all of
> Caryn Ann's points, and yours.  Bring it up once a week.  Absolutely.
> Don't bring it up 5 times a day. Stopping multiple times to read the same
> arguments takes away time from working on fixing it, and promoting the
> party in other ways. I love the passion, I really do, but beating us up
> continually on a point we 90% or more agree on IS counterproductive.  Let's
> move on and FIX IT.
>
> Don't shut up, but let's be productive, let's not let this crap happen
> again.
>
> John Phillips
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> Cell 217-412-5973
>
>
> On 7/9/2018 7:39 PM, Craig Bowden via Lnc-business wrote:
>
>> Looking out for the membership and delegates is nothing to be quiet
>> about. I personally hope it is brought up at least once a week until
>> solutions are in place to prevent it from ever happening again.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Craig Bowden
>> Region 1 Alternate
>>
>> On 2018-07-09 18:33, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>
>>> I respectfully decline.
>>>
>>>    On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Sam Goldstein <[1]
>>> sam.goldstein at lp.org>
>>>    wrote:
>>>
>>>      Caryn Ann,
>>>      Just shut up about this already!
>>>      Respectfully,
>>>      ---
>>>      Sam Goldstein
>>>      Libertarian National Committee
>>>      317-850-0726 Cell
>>>
>>>    On 2018-07-09 18:34, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>
>>>    PS:  Before this vote ends, I am going to put something together to
>>> try
>>>       to convince you that this is actually one of the worst ways to
>>>    solve.
>>>       My first issue - that of steering the delegates down that road with
>>>       at-large is unsolvable- at least unsolvable in any way that we
>>> would
>>>       ever do.  If it were up to me, I would punt it all back to the
>>>       delegates.
>>>       The second issue - of how to handle this situation with the JC -
>>>    well
>>>       we are trying to solve it now and I think we are solving it wrong
>>>    both
>>>       ethically and procedurally.
>>>       And a remaining issue - is one where me and RONR come into
>>> conflict.
>>>       Rules are tools.  Just because a rule allows something doesn't mean
>>>    it
>>>       is right, and this is probably why the first issue is sticking in
>>> my
>>>       craw so badly.  It is fundamentally NOT RIGHT to change the rules
>>> of
>>>    an
>>>       election mid-way.  There is a huge difference between majority and
>>>       plurality and our candidates deserve to know as it effects the way
>>>    they
>>>       campaign.  We treated them and their efforts as pawns, and it isn't
>>>       right.
>>>       I know some of you are thinking, just shut up about this already.
>>>       Well, I am a hard-nose on some things, and this is one of them.
>>>    Just
>>>       like it was with the eternal secrecy clause last term.
>>>       The only way we are going to learn as an organization is if this is
>>>    a
>>>       bit painful.  And in so doing we will model over-the-top integrity
>>>    to
>>>       our members rather than political expediency.
>>>       On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:36 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>
>>>       <[1][2]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>>       ==I get the anger. I'm angry. When we ultimately do get the
>>>       state-by-state tallies, I'm sure we'll find that hundreds of
>>>    delegates
>>>       didn't even vote in the two races because we put them off so long.
>>>    In
>>>       the 2016 convention, whole states didn't cast votes in the At-Large
>>>    and
>>>       JC races. Them's the rules - elections are won by those who stay
>>> and
>>>       vote - but oh my did we make it hard. The combination of voting
>>>       methodology, tabulation method, and scheduling left us in a bad
>>>       place.===
>>>       You mean we ran in front of a racing car and now are surprised we
>>>    got
>>>       ran over?
>>>       But it is more than that.  The delegates were led to make a
>>> decision
>>>    in
>>>       a certain direction.  There WERE other options.  Whether or not one
>>>       agrees with the voting methodology, it is the methodology and its
>>>       intent was to use approval voting to show approval and we turned it
>>>    on
>>>       its head.  Why weren't the delegates given other options?
>>>       ==All that said, I don't want to just be angry and complain. As far
>>>    as
>>>       actions that can be taken, this resolution is the most reasonable.
>>>       Other possibilities - revotes or mail votes of all Party members or
>>>    us
>>>       filling the JC seats or setting multiple JCs in motion - are even
>>>    more
>>>       violative of the Bylaws and Rules.==
>>>       Are they all?  I don't think so. And I do think my very real
>>>    complaint
>>>       of how the delegates were steered in a certain direction is being
>>>       ignored at best (or maligned at worst).
>>>       ==The contrary view admittedly rests on a thread of legality: the
>>>       delegates expressed their wish to take the top at-large candidates
>>>    and
>>>       the Bylaws say the same applies for the JC. There's also no doubt
>>> in
>>>    my
>>>       mind that had they been asked they would have done the same for the
>>>    JC.
>>>       A room of several hundred Libertarians were not coerced into doing
>>>    that
>>>       - they went with what Nick suggested because that's what they
>>> wanted
>>>    to
>>>       do. He just told them how.===
>>>       And that is where the dispute is.  Most of the people there trusted
>>>    us
>>>       (I use us as Nick was acting as the spokesperson of the LNC and
>>> this
>>>       isn't about Nick ultimately) not to tell them what they wanted.
>>>    They
>>>       were presented with two choices in which they were led down a
>>>       particular path.  You are an attorney Joe, you know exactly what I
>>>    am
>>>       getting at here.
>>>       Do you really think that if they were offered a majority rising
>>> vote
>>>    on
>>>       the spot to choose between options they would not have taken that?
>>>    It
>>>       never ocurred to most of them that there WERE any other options.
>>> It
>>>       didn't immediately occur to me and I am well-versed in this stuff.
>>>    It
>>>       stinks.  If a government acted this way we would be all lathered
>>> up.
>>>       On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Joe Bishop-Henchman
>>>
>>>       <[2][3]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org> wrote:
>>>         I get the anger. I'm angry. When we ultimately do get the
>>>         state-by-state tallies, I'm sure we'll find that hundreds of
>>>         delegates didn't even vote in the two races because we put them
>>>    off
>>>         so long. In the 2016 convention, whole states didn't cast votes
>>> in
>>>         the At-Large and JC races. Them's the rules - elections are won
>>> by
>>>         those who stay and vote - but oh my did we make it hard. The
>>>         combination of voting methodology, tabulation method, and
>>>    scheduling
>>>         left us in a bad place.
>>>         All that said, I don't want to just be angry and complain. As far
>>>    as
>>>         actions that can be taken, this resolution is the most
>>> reasonable.
>>>         Other possibilities - revotes or mail votes of all Party members
>>>    or
>>>         us filling the JC seats or setting multiple JCs in motion - are
>>>    even
>>>         more violative of the Bylaws and Rules.
>>>         I do not dispute that one can reasonably argue that every JC
>>>         candidate was disapproved and that it should sit empty until
>>> 2022.
>>>         The contrary view admittedly rests on a thread of legality: the
>>>         delegates expressed their wish to take the top at-large
>>> candidates
>>>         and the Bylaws say the same applies for the JC. There's also no
>>>         doubt in my mind that had they been asked they would have done
>>> the
>>>         same for the JC. A room of several hundred Libertarians were not
>>>         coerced into doing that - they went with what Nick suggested
>>>    because
>>>         that's what they wanted to do. He just told them how. They didn't
>>>         want the LNC fighting over who would fill the seats if they were
>>>         left vacant.
>>>         I doubt I'm going to convince you but I did want to write this to
>>>         emphasize that at least I am not sanguine or sweeping anything
>>>         blithely under the rug. I expect rethinking how we do elections
>>>    will
>>>         be a big priority for many of us.
>>>         JBH
>>>         On 2018-07-09 16:46, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>         Suspension of the rules has to be specific and there is no way
>>>         around
>>>            the fact that we used the number 5 over and over.
>>>            This is taking things to an even deeper level of improper.  I
>>>         object to
>>>            the whole at-Large process- I don’t think the delegates made
>>> an
>>>            independent choice and now to just infer this upon that is two
>>>         bridges
>>>            too far.
>>>            This is a big screwup and I won’t be part of sweeping it under
>>>         the rug.
>>>            It alarms me to no end how blithely the whole situation is
>>>    being
>>>         taken.
>>>            There are people looking at us and seeing nothing different
>>>    than
>>>         the
>>>            government we wish to reform.
>>>            There was a controversial election and at least one state
>>> chair
>>>         and
>>>            candidate has been asking for the state by state rallies with
>>>    no
>>>         time
>>>            frame given him.
>>>            The whole thing was an affront to people expecting an entirely
>>>            different thing when they ran.  I will not be sanguine about
>>>    it.
>>>            On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 2:20 PM Whitney Bilyeu
>>>
>>>              <[1][3][4]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org> wrote:
>>>              This point did come up immediately after adjournment, while
>>>      Nick
>>>           was
>>>              still at the mic. I don't recall who brought it up, but the
>>>           statement
>>>              was made that it would follow the same procedure as At-Large
>>>      at
>>>           that
>>>              point, since we were no longer in session.
>>>              No one raised the question prior to that.
>>>              Whitney Bilyeu
>>>              Region 7 Representative
>>>              On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
>>>      Lnc-business
>>>              <[2][4][5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>>                   Joshua they were not given a choice on this. The JC
>>>      never
>>>           came
>>>                up.
>>>                   On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 11:47 AM
>>>           <[1][3][5][6]joshua.smith at lp.org>
>>>
>>>            wrote:
>>>                 I vote yes. Given that the delegates were given the
>>> choice
>>>    at
>>>                 convention
>>>                 just a few short days ago, I believe we should respect
>>>    that
>>>                 decision.
>>>                 Thanks,
>>>                 Joshua D. Smith
>>>                 On 2018-07-07 22:23, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>>>    wrote:
>>>                 > We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due to the
>>>                 LNC-Business
>>>                 >    list by July 14, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
>>>            Co-Sponsors:
>>>                 >    Bishop-Henchman, Goldstein, Hagan, Merced, Van Horn
>>>            Motion:
>>>                 Move
>>>                 > that
>>>                 >    the Libertarian National Committee acknowledge the
>>>            election of
>>>                 the
>>>                 >    following to the Judicial Committee for a four-year
>>>       term:
>>>            D.
>>>                 Frank
>>>                 >    Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry, Ruth Bennett,
>>>       Geoff
>>>                 Neale,
>>>                 > Jim
>>>                 >    Turney, and Tricia Sprankle. You can keep track of
>>>    the
>>>                 Secretary's
>>>                 >    manual tally of votes here:
>>>
>>>                [1][2][4][6][7]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>                     >    --
>>>                     >    --
>>>                     >    In Liberty,
>>>                     >    Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>                     >    Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National
>>>           Committee
>>>                     (Alaska,
>>>                     >    Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana,
>>>      Utah,
>>>           Wyoming,
>>>                     > Washington)
>>>                     >    - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>                     >    Communications Director, [3]Libertarian Party of
>>>           Colorado
>>>                     >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>                     >    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>                     >    We defend your rights
>>>                     >    And oppose the use of force
>>>                     >    Taxation is theft
>>>                     >
>>>                     > References
>>>                     >
>>>                     >    1. [3][5][7][8]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>                     >    2. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>                     >    3. [5][6][8][9]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>                   --
>>>                   --
>>>                   In Liberty,
>>>                   Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>                   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>>>           Secretary
>>>                   - [6]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>>                   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
>>>      LPedia at LP.org
>>>                   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>                   We defend your rights
>>>                   And oppose the use of force
>>>                   Taxation is theft
>>>                References
>>>                   1. mailto:[7][9][10]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>                   2. [8][10][11]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>                   3. [9][11][12]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>                   4. mailto:[10]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>                   5. [11][12][13]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>                   6. mailto:[12]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>              --
>>>              --
>>>              In Liberty,
>>>              Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>              Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>>>      Secretary
>>>              - [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>>              Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>>              A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>              We defend your rights
>>>              And oppose the use of force
>>>              Taxation is theft
>>>           References
>>>              1. mailto:[13][14]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>>              2. mailto:[14][15]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>              3. mailto:[15][16]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>              4. [16][17]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>              5. [17][18]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>              6. [18][19]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>              7. mailto:[19][20]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>              8. [20][21]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>              9. [21][22]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>             10. mailto:[22]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>             11. [23][23]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>             12. mailto:[24]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>             13. mailto:[25]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>           --
>>>         JBH
>>>         ------------
>>>         Joe Bishop-Henchman
>>>         LNC Member (At-Large)
>>>         [26][24]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>>         [27][25]www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>>>         --
>>>         --
>>>         In Liberty,
>>>         Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>         Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>>         - [28]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>>         Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>>         A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>         We defend your rights
>>>         And oppose the use of force
>>>         Taxation is theft
>>>         --
>>>         --
>>>         In Liberty,
>>>         Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>         Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>>         - [29]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>>         Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>>         A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>         We defend your rights
>>>         And oppose the use of force
>>>         Taxation is theft
>>>      References
>>>         1. mailto:[26]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>>         2. mailto:[27]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>>         3. mailto:[28]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>>         4. mailto:[29]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>         5. mailto:[30]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>         6. [31]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>         7. [32]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>         8. [33]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>         9. mailto:[34]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>        10. [35]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>        11. [36]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>        12. [37]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>        13. mailto:[38]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>>        14. mailto:[39]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>        15. mailto:[40]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>        16. [41]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>        17. [42]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>        18. [43]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>        19. mailto:[44]joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>        20. [45]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>        21. [46]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>        22. mailto:[47]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>        23. [48]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>        24. mailto:[49]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>        25. mailto:[50]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>        26. mailto:[51]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>>        27. [52]http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>>>        28. mailto:[53]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>        29. mailto:[54]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>>    --
>>>    --
>>>    In Liberty,
>>>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>>    - [55]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>    We defend your rights
>>>    And oppose the use of force
>>>    Taxation is theft
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>>    1. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
>>>    2. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>>    3. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>>    4. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>>    5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>    6. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>    7. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>    8. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>    9. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>   10. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>   11. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   12. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   13. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>   14. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>>   15. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>   16. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>   17. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   18. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   19. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>   20. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>   21. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   22. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   23. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>   24. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>>   25. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>>>   26. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>>   27. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>>   28. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>>   29. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>   30. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>   31. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   32. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   33. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>   34. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>   35. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   36. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   37. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>   38. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
>>>   39. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>   40. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>   41. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   42. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   43. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>   44. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
>>>   45. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   46. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>   47. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>   48. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>>   49. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>   50. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>   51. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>>>   52. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>>>   53. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>   54. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>   55. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
   Oh my goodness.  I am sorry but this is beyond belief.
   I think our elections were handled wrongfully and I am supposed to NOT
   yell it from the rooftops?  What Party am I in again?

   On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:52 PM, John Phillips via Lnc-business
   <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

     Agreed, to a point.  At some time, preaching to the choir becomes
     counter productive.  As noted earlier, we are all aware that it
     sucked, and is a bad situation with no easy fix that will make
     everyone happy immediately.  We all want to fix it, and fix it
     yesterday.  I even agree with all of Caryn Ann's points, and yours.
     Bring it up once a week.  Absolutely.  Don't bring it up 5 times a
     day. Stopping multiple times to read the same arguments takes away
     time from working on fixing it, and promoting the party in other
     ways. I love the passion, I really do, but beating us up continually
     on a point we 90% or more agree on IS counterproductive.  Let's move
     on and FIX IT.
     Don't shut up, but let's be productive, let's not let this crap
     happen again.
     John Phillips
     Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
     Cell 217-412-5973

   On 7/9/2018 7:39 PM, Craig Bowden via Lnc-business wrote:

     Looking out for the membership and delegates is nothing to be quiet
     about. I personally hope it is brought up at least once a week until
     solutions are in place to prevent it from ever happening again.
     Respectfully,
     Craig Bowden
     Region 1 Alternate
     On 2018-07-09 18:33, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:

     I respectfully decline.
        On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Sam Goldstein
     <[1][2]sam.goldstein at lp.org>
        wrote:
          Caryn Ann,
          Just shut up about this already!
          Respectfully,
          ---
          Sam Goldstein
          Libertarian National Committee
          317-850-0726 Cell
        On 2018-07-09 18:34, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
        PS:  Before this vote ends, I am going to put something together
     to try
           to convince you that this is actually one of the worst ways to
        solve.
           My first issue - that of steering the delegates down that road
     with
           at-large is unsolvable- at least unsolvable in any way that we
     would
           ever do.  If it were up to me, I would punt it all back to the
           delegates.
           The second issue - of how to handle this situation with the JC
     -
        well
           we are trying to solve it now and I think we are solving it
     wrong
        both
           ethically and procedurally.
           And a remaining issue - is one where me and RONR come into
     conflict.
           Rules are tools.  Just because a rule allows something doesn't
     mean
        it
           is right, and this is probably why the first issue is sticking
     in my
           craw so badly.  It is fundamentally NOT RIGHT to change the
     rules of
        an
           election mid-way.  There is a huge difference between majority
     and
           plurality and our candidates deserve to know as it effects the
     way
        they
           campaign.  We treated them and their efforts as pawns, and it
     isn't
           right.
           I know some of you are thinking, just shut up about this
     already.
           Well, I am a hard-nose on some things, and this is one of
     them.
        Just
           like it was with the eternal secrecy clause last term.
           The only way we are going to learn as an organization is if
     this is
        a
           bit painful.  And in so doing we will model over-the-top
     integrity
        to
           our members rather than political expediency.
           On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:36 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
           <[1][2][3]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
           ==I get the anger. I'm angry. When we ultimately do get the
           state-by-state tallies, I'm sure we'll find that hundreds of
        delegates
           didn't even vote in the two races because we put them off so
     long.
        In
           the 2016 convention, whole states didn't cast votes in the
     At-Large
        and
           JC races. Them's the rules - elections are won by those who
     stay and
           vote - but oh my did we make it hard. The combination of
     voting
           methodology, tabulation method, and scheduling left us in a
     bad
           place.===
           You mean we ran in front of a racing car and now are surprised
     we
        got
           ran over?
           But it is more than that.  The delegates were led to make a
     decision
        in
           a certain direction.  There WERE other options.  Whether or
     not one
           agrees with the voting methodology, it is the methodology and
     its
           intent was to use approval voting to show approval and we
     turned it
        on
           its head.  Why weren't the delegates given other options?
           ==All that said, I don't want to just be angry and complain.
     As far
        as
           actions that can be taken, this resolution is the most
     reasonable.
           Other possibilities - revotes or mail votes of all Party
     members or
        us
           filling the JC seats or setting multiple JCs in motion - are
     even
        more
           violative of the Bylaws and Rules.==
           Are they all?  I don't think so. And I do think my very real
        complaint
           of how the delegates were steered in a certain direction is
     being
           ignored at best (or maligned at worst).
           ==The contrary view admittedly rests on a thread of legality:
     the
           delegates expressed their wish to take the top at-large
     candidates
        and
           the Bylaws say the same applies for the JC. There's also no
     doubt in
        my
           mind that had they been asked they would have done the same
     for the
        JC.
           A room of several hundred Libertarians were not coerced into
     doing
        that
           - they went with what Nick suggested because that's what they
     wanted
        to
           do. He just told them how.===
           And that is where the dispute is.  Most of the people there
     trusted
        us
           (I use us as Nick was acting as the spokesperson of the LNC
     and this
           isn't about Nick ultimately) not to tell them what they
     wanted.
        They
           were presented with two choices in which they were led down a
           particular path.  You are an attorney Joe, you know exactly
     what I
        am
           getting at here.
           Do you really think that if they were offered a majority
     rising vote
        on
           the spot to choose between options they would not have taken
     that?
        It
           never ocurred to most of them that there WERE any other
     options.  It
           didn't immediately occur to me and I am well-versed in this
     stuff.
        It
           stinks.  If a government acted this way we would be all
     lathered up.
           On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Joe Bishop-Henchman
           <[2][3][4]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org> wrote:
             I get the anger. I'm angry. When we ultimately do get the
             state-by-state tallies, I'm sure we'll find that hundreds of
             delegates didn't even vote in the two races because we put
     them
        off
             so long. In the 2016 convention, whole states didn't cast
     votes in
             the At-Large and JC races. Them's the rules - elections are
     won by
             those who stay and vote - but oh my did we make it hard. The
             combination of voting methodology, tabulation method, and
        scheduling
             left us in a bad place.
             All that said, I don't want to just be angry and complain.
     As far
        as
             actions that can be taken, this resolution is the most
     reasonable.
             Other possibilities - revotes or mail votes of all Party
     members
        or
             us filling the JC seats or setting multiple JCs in motion -
     are
        even
             more violative of the Bylaws and Rules.
             I do not dispute that one can reasonably argue that every JC
             candidate was disapproved and that it should sit empty until
     2022.
             The contrary view admittedly rests on a thread of legality:
     the
             delegates expressed their wish to take the top at-large
     candidates
             and the Bylaws say the same applies for the JC. There's also
     no
             doubt in my mind that had they been asked they would have
     done the
             same for the JC. A room of several hundred Libertarians were
     not
             coerced into doing that - they went with what Nick suggested
        because
             that's what they wanted to do. He just told them how. They
     didn't
             want the LNC fighting over who would fill the seats if they
     were
             left vacant.
             I doubt I'm going to convince you but I did want to write
     this to
             emphasize that at least I am not sanguine or sweeping
     anything
             blithely under the rug. I expect rethinking how we do
     elections
        will
             be a big priority for many of us.
             JBH
             On 2018-07-09 16:46, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
     wrote:
             Suspension of the rules has to be specific and there is no
     way
             around
                the fact that we used the number 5 over and over.
                This is taking things to an even deeper level of
     improper.  I
             object to
                the whole at-Large process- I don’t think the delegates
     made an
                independent choice and now to just infer this upon that
     is two
             bridges
                too far.
                This is a big screwup and I won’t be part of sweeping it
     under
             the rug.
                It alarms me to no end how blithely the whole situation
     is
        being
             taken.
                There are people looking at us and seeing nothing
     different
        than
             the
                government we wish to reform.
                There was a controversial election and at least one state
     chair
             and
                candidate has been asking for the state by state rallies
     with
        no
             time
                frame given him.
                The whole thing was an affront to people expecting an
     entirely
                different thing when they ran.  I will not be sanguine
     about
        it.
                On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 2:20 PM Whitney Bilyeu
                  <[1][3][4][5]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org> wrote:
                  This point did come up immediately after adjournment,
     while
          Nick
               was
                  still at the mic. I don't recall who brought it up, but
     the
               statement
                  was made that it would follow the same procedure as
     At-Large
          at
               that
                  point, since we were no longer in session.
                  No one raised the question prior to that.
                  Whitney Bilyeu
                  Region 7 Representative
                  On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
          Lnc-business
                  <[2][4][5][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
                       Joshua they were not given a choice on this. The
     JC
          never
               came
                    up.
                       On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 11:47 AM
               <[1][3][5][6][7]joshua.smith at lp.org>
                wrote:
                     I vote yes. Given that the delegates were given the
     choice
        at
                     convention
                     just a few short days ago, I believe we should
     respect
        that
                     decision.
                     Thanks,
                     Joshua D. Smith
                     On 2018-07-07 22:23, Caryn Ann Harlos via
     Lnc-business
        wrote:
                     > We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due
     to the
                     LNC-Business
                     >    list by July 14, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific
     time.
                Co-Sponsors:
                     >    Bishop-Henchman, Goldstein, Hagan, Merced, Van
     Horn
                Motion:
                     Move
                     > that
                     >    the Libertarian National Committee acknowledge
     the
                election of
                     the
                     >    following to the Judicial Committee for a
     four-year
           term:
                D.
                     Frank
                     >    Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry, Ruth
     Bennett,
           Geoff
                     Neale,
                     > Jim
                     >    Turney, and Tricia Sprankle. You can keep track
     of
        the
                     Secretary's
                     >    manual tally of votes here:
                    [1][2][4][6][7][8]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
                         >    --
                         >    --
                         >    In Liberty,
                         >    Caryn Ann Harlos
                         >    Region 1 Representative, Libertarian
     National
               Committee
                         (Alaska,
                         >    Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana,
          Utah,
               Wyoming,
                         > Washington)
                         >    - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
                         >    Communications Director, [3]Libertarian
     Party of
               Colorado
                         >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
                         >    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
                         >    We defend your rights
                         >    And oppose the use of force
                         >    Taxation is theft
                         >
                         > References
                         >
                         >    1. [3][5][7][8][9]https://tinyurl.co
     m/lncvoting
                         >    2. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
                         >    3. [5][6][8][9][10]http://www.lpcolor
     ado.org/
                       --
                       --
                       In Liberty,
                       Caryn Ann Harlos
                       Libertarian Party and Libertarian National
     Committee
               Secretary
                       - [6]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
                       Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
          LPedia at LP.org
                       A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
                       We defend your rights
                       And oppose the use of force
                       Taxation is theft
                    References
                       1. mailto:[7][9][10][11]joshua.smith at lp.org
                       2. [8][10][11][12]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
                       3. [9][11][12][13]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
                       4. mailto:[10]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
                       5. [11][12][13][14]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
                       6. mailto:[12]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
                  --
                  --
                  In Liberty,
                  Caryn Ann Harlos
                  Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
          Secretary
                  - [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
                  Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
     LPedia at LP.org
                  A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
                  We defend your rights
                  And oppose the use of force
                  Taxation is theft
               References
                  1. mailto:[13][14][15]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
                  2. mailto:[14][15][16]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
                  3. mailto:[15][16][17]joshua.smith at lp.org
                  4. [16][17][18]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
                  5. [17][18][19]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
                  6. [18][19][20]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
                  7. mailto:[19][20][21]joshua.smith at lp.org
                  8. [20][21][22]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
                  9. [21][22][23]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
                 10. mailto:[22]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
                 11. [23][23][24]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
                 12. mailto:[24]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
                 13. mailto:[25]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
               --
             JBH
             ------------
             Joe Bishop-Henchman
             LNC Member (At-Large)
             [26][24][25]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
             [27][25][26]www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
             --
             --
             In Liberty,
             Caryn Ann Harlos
             Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
     Secretary
             - [28]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
             Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
             A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
             We defend your rights
             And oppose the use of force
             Taxation is theft
             --
             --
             In Liberty,
             Caryn Ann Harlos
             Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
     Secretary
             - [29]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
             Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
             A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
             We defend your rights
             And oppose the use of force
             Taxation is theft
          References
             1. mailto:[26][27]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
             2. mailto:[27][28]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
             3. mailto:[28][29]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
             4. mailto:[29][30]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
             5. mailto:[30][31]joshua.smith at lp.org
             6. [31][32]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
             7. [32][33]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
             8. [33][34]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
             9. mailto:[34][35]joshua.smith at lp.org
            10. [35][36]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
            11. [36][37]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
            12. [37][38]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
            13. mailto:[38][39]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
            14. mailto:[39][40]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
            15. mailto:[40][41]joshua.smith at lp.org
            16. [41][42]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
            17. [42][43]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
            18. [43][44]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
            19. mailto:[44][45]joshua.smith at lp.org
            20. [45][46]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
            21. [46][47]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
            22. mailto:[47]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
            23. [48][48]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
            24. mailto:[49]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
            25. mailto:[50]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
            26. mailto:[51][49]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
            27. [52][50]http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
            28. mailto:[53]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
            29. mailto:[54]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
        --
        --
        In Liberty,
        Caryn Ann Harlos
        Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
        - [55]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
        Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
        A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
        We defend your rights
        And oppose the use of force
        Taxation is theft
     References
        1. mailto:[51]sam.goldstein at lp.org
        2. mailto:[52]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
        3. mailto:[53]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
        4. mailto:[54]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
        5. mailto:[55]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        6. mailto:[56]joshua.smith at lp.org
        7. [57]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
        8. [58]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
        9. [59]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
       10. mailto:[60]joshua.smith at lp.org
       11. [61]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       12. [62]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       13. [63]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
       14. mailto:[64]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
       15. mailto:[65]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       16. mailto:[66]joshua.smith at lp.org
       17. [67]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       18. [68]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       19. [69]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
       20. mailto:[70]joshua.smith at lp.org
       21. [71]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       22. [72]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       23. [73]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
       24. mailto:[74]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
       25. [75]http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
       26. mailto:[76]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
       27. mailto:[77]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
       28. mailto:[78]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
       29. mailto:[79]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       30. mailto:[80]joshua.smith at lp.org
       31. [81]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       32. [82]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       33. [83]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
       34. mailto:[84]joshua.smith at lp.org
       35. [85]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       36. [86]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       37. [87]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
       38. mailto:[88]whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
       39. mailto:[89]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
       40. mailto:[90]joshua.smith at lp.org
       41. [91]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       42. [92]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       43. [93]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
       44. mailto:[94]joshua.smith at lp.org
       45. [95]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       46. [96]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       47. mailto:[97]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
       48. [98]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
       49. mailto:[99]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
       50. mailto:[100]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
       51. mailto:[101]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
       52. [102]http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
       53. mailto:[103]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
       54. mailto:[104]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
       55. mailto:[105]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org

   --
   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [106]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

References

   1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   2. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
   3. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
   4. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
   5. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
   6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   7. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
   8. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
   9. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  10. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  11. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  12. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  13. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  14. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  15. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
  16. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  17. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  18. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  19. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  20. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  21. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  22. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  23. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  24. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  25. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
  26. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
  27. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
  28. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
  29. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
  30. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  31. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  32. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  33. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  34. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  35. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  36. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  37. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  38. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  39. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
  40. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  41. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  42. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  43. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  44. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  45. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  46. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  47. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  48. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  49. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
  50. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
  51. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
  52. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
  53. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
  54. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
  55. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  56. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  57. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  58. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  59. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  60. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  61. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  62. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  63. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  64. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
  65. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  66. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  67. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  68. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  69. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  70. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  71. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  72. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  73. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  74. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
  75. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
  76. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
  77. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
  78. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
  79. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  80. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  81. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  82. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  83. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  84. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  85. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  86. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  87. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  88. mailto:whitney.bilyeu at lp.org
  89. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  90. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  91. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  92. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  93. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  94. mailto:joshua.smith at lp.org
  95. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  96. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  97. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  98. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  99. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
 100. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
 101. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
 102. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
 103. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
 104. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
 105. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
 106. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org


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