[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-11: ACKNOWLEDGE ELECTION OF JC

Elizabeth Van Horn elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
Tue Jul 10 23:58:35 EDT 2018


I see no indication that a mail ballot would actually serve the member
rights. Where is it shown that the LNC has the authority to hold a mail
ballot regarding elections, after the convention has adjourned?

Also, I'm not convinced that a mail ballot to determine the JC would be
workable.  As the resulting return from a mail ballot wouldn't be a good
percent of the delegates, thereby negating the will of the delegate body
that attended the convention. 

---
Elizabeth Van Horn
LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
LP Social Media Process Review Committee
Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
http://www.lpcaucus.org/ 

On 2018-07-10 23:36, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

> The ballot would be a second ballot as we already had a first. 
> 
> This issue goes beyond member preference and into member rights which cannot be waived by a majority informally. 
> 
> It is one of the few instances where professional parliamentary advice should be sought. 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 9:14 PM Elizabeth Van Horn <elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote: 
> 
>> I'd like to remind new members to listen to your constituency. If you're 
>> a Region Rep, that means your regional members, state affiliate 
>> officers, etc.  For At-Large, that means *all* the LP members are your 
>> constituency, so a broad spectrum feedback might give you information on 
>> what the LP body wishes.
>> 
>> Also, I'll say that some of the feedback I'm getting from Region 3 says 
>> that they'd be fine with *no* Judicial Committee.  This feedback came 
>> from a State Chair and a State VC, in Region 3, and officers of two 
>> other state affiliates in the region. The 'no Judicial Committee" 
>> option, means we just don't have a JC, and then in 2020, during a 
>> regular convention, the delegate body elects a new Judicial Committee.
>> 
>> NO ONE has suggested that the LNC conduct a mail ballot of the former 
>> delegates at the convention, and I'd also be against that method, as 
>> that *would* be the LNC trying to orchestrate an outcome, as we already 
>> had a delegate vote regarding the JC.  That would be the LNC 
>> disregarding the delegate body and votes that we all saw happen at 
>> convention.  The way to respect the delegate body, is to either approve 
>> the top seven JC candidates, or have no JC until the 2020 convention can 
>> elect that committee.  The former would be giving voice to the delegate 
>> body, and the latter would also be giving voice, while recognizing that 
>> the delegate voting procedure didn't finalize a committee.
>> 
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
>> Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
>> LP Social Media Process Review Committee
>> Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
>> http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>> 
>> On 2018-07-10 20:21, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>> And I remind everyone, particularly the new members, this is ultimately
>>> a parliamentary question not a popularity one.  And I urge you to 
>>> avail
>>> yourselves of the opportunity to speak with the convention
>>> parliamentarian on this issue.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> <[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you for considering my points Richard.  I am coming at this 
>>> also
>>> from a keen awareness of how awry things like this can go.  One 
>>> small
>>> well-intentioned expediency on the part the LNC can turn into a 
>>> depth
>>> charge that lasts for a decade.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business
>>> <[2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am changing Region 1's vote to abstain.
>>> I am continuing to think on this and hear back from more in my
>>> region
>>> before finalizing my decision. I am leaning toward voting no at
>>> this
>>> point but will cast a final ballot on Saturday with explanation
>>> (our
>>> deadline). Please continue discussion as all points are 
>>> relevant.
>>> RTL
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:55 William Redpath via Lnc-business
>>> <[1][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> I vote Yes.  Bill Redpath
>>> On 2018-07-09 13:47, joshua.smith--- via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>> I vote yes. Given that the delegates were given the choice at
>>>> convention just a few short days ago, I believe we should
>>> respect
>>> that
>>>> decision.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Joshua D. Smith
>>>> 
>>>> On 2018-07-07 22:23, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>>> We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due to the
>>> LNC-Business
>>>>> list by July 14, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
>>> Co-Sponsors:
>>>>> Bishop-Henchman, Goldstein, Hagan, Merced, Van Horn 
>>> Motion:
>>> Move
>>>>> that
>>>>> the Libertarian National Committee acknowledge the 
>>> election
>>> of
>>> the
>>>>> following to the Judicial Committee for a four-year term: 
>>> D.
>>> Frank
>>>>> Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry, Ruth Bennett, 
>>> Geoff
>>> Neale,
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> Turney, and Tricia Sprankle. You can keep track of the
>>> Secretary's
>>>>> manual tally of votes here:
>>> 
>>> [1][2][4]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>> (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah,
>>> Wyoming,
>>>>> Washington)
>>>>> - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> Communications Director, [3]Libertarian Party of 
>>> Colorado
>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>> We defend your rights
>>>>> And oppose the use of force
>>>>> Taxation is theft
>>>>> 
>>>>> References
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. [3][5]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>>>> 2. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> 3. [5][6]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> References
>>> 1. mailto:[7]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 2. [8]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 
>>> 3. [9]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 4. mailto:[10]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 5. [11]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>> - [12]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>> 
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>> - [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>> 
>>> References
>>> 
>>> 1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>> 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 4. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 5. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 6. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 7. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 8. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 9. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>>> 10. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 11. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>> 12. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>> 13. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> -- 
> 
> -- 
> 
> IN LIBERTY, 
> CARYN ANN HARLOS 
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org. 
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org 
> 
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles: 
> _We defend your rights_ 
> _And oppose the use of force_ 
> _Taxation is theft_
-------------- next part --------------
   I see no indication that a mail ballot would actually serve the member
   rights. Where is it shown that the LNC has the authority to hold a mail
   ballot regarding elections, after the convention has adjourned?
   Also, I'm not convinced that a mail ballot to determine the JC would be
   workable.  As the resulting return from a mail ballot wouldn't be a
   good percent of the delegates, thereby negating the will of the
   delegate body that attended the convention.

   ---
   Elizabeth Van Horn
   LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
   Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
   LP Social Media Process Review Committee
   Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
   [1]http://www.lpcaucus.org/

   On 2018-07-10 23:36, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

   The ballot would be a second ballot as we already had a first.



   This issue goes beyond member preference and into member rights which
   cannot be waived by a majority informally.



   It is one of the few instances where professional parliamentary advice
   should be sought.



   On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 9:14 PM Elizabeth Van Horn
   <[2]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:

     I'd like to remind new members to listen to your constituency. If
     you're
     a Region Rep, that means your regional members, state affiliate
     officers, etc.  For At-Large, that means *all* the LP members are
     your
     constituency, so a broad spectrum feedback might give you
     information on
     what the LP body wishes.
     Also, I'll say that some of the feedback I'm getting from Region 3
     says
     that they'd be fine with *no* Judicial Committee.  This feedback
     came
     from a State Chair and a State VC, in Region 3, and officers of two
     other state affiliates in the region. The 'no Judicial Committee"
     option, means we just don't have a JC, and then in 2020, during a
     regular convention, the delegate body elects a new Judicial
     Committee.
     NO ONE has suggested that the LNC conduct a mail ballot of the
     former
     delegates at the convention, and I'd also be against that method, as
     that *would* be the LNC trying to orchestrate an outcome, as we
     already
     had a delegate vote regarding the JC.  That would be the LNC
     disregarding the delegate body and votes that we all saw happen at
     convention.  The way to respect the delegate body, is to either
     approve
     the top seven JC candidates, or have no JC until the 2020 convention
     can
     elect that committee.  The former would be giving voice to the
     delegate
     body, and the latter would also be giving voice, while recognizing
     that
     the delegate voting procedure didn't finalize a committee.
     ---
     Elizabeth Van Horn
     LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
     Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
     LP Social Media Process Review Committee
     Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
     [3]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
     On 2018-07-10 20:21, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
     > And I remind everyone, particularly the new members, this is
     ultimately
     >    a parliamentary question not a popularity one.  And I urge you
     to
     > avail
     >    yourselves of the opportunity to speak with the convention
     >    parliamentarian on this issue.
     >
     >    On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
     >    <[1][4]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
     >
     >    Thank you for considering my points Richard.  I am coming at
     this
     > also
     >    from a keen awareness of how awry things like this can go.  One
     > small
     >    well-intentioned expediency on the part the LNC can turn into a
     > depth
     >    charge that lasts for a decade.
     >
     >    On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Richard Longstreth via
     Lnc-business
     >    <[2][5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
     >
     >         I am changing Region 1's vote to abstain.
     >         I am continuing to think on this and hear back from more
     in my
     >      region
     >         before finalizing my decision. I am leaning toward voting
     no at
     >      this
     >         point but will cast a final ballot on Saturday with
     explanation
     >      (our
     >         deadline). Please continue discussion as all points are
     > relevant.
     >         RTL
     >
     >       On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:55 William Redpath via Lnc-business
     >       <[1][3][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
     >         I vote Yes.  Bill Redpath
     >         On 2018-07-09 13:47, joshua.smith--- via Lnc-business
     wrote:
     >         > I vote yes. Given that the delegates were given the
     choice at
     >         > convention just a few short days ago, I believe we
     should
     >    respect
     >         that
     >         > decision.
     >         >
     >         > Thanks,
     >         > Joshua D. Smith
     >         >
     >         > On 2018-07-07 22:23, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
     wrote:
     >         >> We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due to the
     >         LNC-Business
     >         >>    list by July 14, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
     >    Co-Sponsors:
     >         >>    Bishop-Henchman, Goldstein, Hagan, Merced, Van Horn
     > Motion:
     >         Move
     >         >> that
     >         >>    the Libertarian National Committee acknowledge the
     > election
     >    of
     >         the
     >         >>    following to the Judicial Committee for a four-year
     term:
     > D.
     >         Frank
     >         >>    Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry, Ruth Bennett,
     > Geoff
     >         Neale,
     >         >> Jim
     >         >>    Turney, and Tricia Sprankle. You can keep track of
     the
     >         Secretary's
     >         >>    manual tally of votes here:
     >
     >           [1][2][4][7]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >           >>    --
     >           >>    --
     >           >>    In Liberty,
     >           >>    Caryn Ann Harlos
     >           >>    Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National
     Committee
     >           (Alaska,
     >           >>    Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah,
     >      Wyoming,
     >           >> Washington)
     >           >>    - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
     >           >>    Communications Director, [3]Libertarian Party of
     > Colorado
     >           >>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
     >           >>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
     >           >>    We defend your rights
     >           >>    And oppose the use of force
     >           >>    Taxation is theft
     >           >>
     >           >> References
     >           >>
     >           >>    1. [3][5][8]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >           >>    2. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
     >           >>    3. [5][6][9]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
     >      References
     >         1. mailto:[7][10]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     >         2. [8][11]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >
     >       3. [9][12]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >       4. mailto:[10]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
     >       5. [11][13]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
     >
     >    --
     >    --
     >    In Liberty,
     >    Caryn Ann Harlos
     >    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
     >    - [12]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
     >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
     >    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
     >    We defend your rights
     >    And oppose the use of force
     >    Taxation is theft
     >
     >    --
     >    --
     >    In Liberty,
     >    Caryn Ann Harlos
     >    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
     >    - [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
     >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
     >    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
     >    We defend your rights
     >    And oppose the use of force
     >    Taxation is theft
     >
     > References
     >
     >    1. mailto:[14]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
     >    2. mailto:[15]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     >    3. mailto:[16]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     >    4. [17]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >    5. [18]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >    6. [19]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
     >    7. mailto:[20]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     >    8. [21]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >    9. [22]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >   10. mailto:[23]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
     >   11. [24]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
     >   12. mailto:[25]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
     >   13. mailto:[26]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org

     --

   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [27]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org

   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

References

   1. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
   2. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
   3. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
   4. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
   5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   7. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
   8. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
   9. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  10. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  11. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  12. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  13. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  14. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
  15. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  16. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  17. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  18. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  19. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  20. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  21. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  22. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  23. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  24. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
  25. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  26. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  27. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org


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