[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-12: INDEPENDENT AUDIT OF AT-LARGE VOTE RESULTS
Alicia Mattson
alicia.mattson at lp.org
Sun Jul 15 19:53:09 EDT 2018
I think we should use whichever time zone the secretary feels is optimal
for her convenience. To me, it seems like you'd want to do it all on
Mountain Time so that when you put a mail ballot out you don't have to take
the extra step of asking what day it is in another time zone. Just add 7
days to whatever date it is for you when you send it. But whatever time
zone you pick as the start point, that same time zone must be used as the
end point.
The two reasonable interpretations of the 7-day period are:
1) 7 days * 24 hours = 168 hours - so it would end exactly 168 hours later
to the second, and we'd all have to pay attention to the time of day on
each email ballot to make sure our votes are cast on time
2) 7 calendar days, in the sense that something that happens at any time
on Wednesday is only one day after Tuesday. We've used this approach so we
could have a consistent ending time of 11:59:59 on the 7th day, and we
don't have to remember different ending times for each mail ballot.
For this email ballot to start at 11:53 Pacific on June 11, and end at
11:59:59 Pacific on June 19, that means it is open for 8 periods of 24
hours plus 7 minutes, though the bylaws prescribe a 7-day voting period.
Ending instead at 11:59:59 on June 18 means it is open for 7 days and 7
minutes.
Any vote that is cast on the 8th day should not be counted, per LP Bylaws
which prescribe a 7-day vote. I don't see a good argument that a 7-day
time frame runs longer than 8 days. I urge my fellow LNC members to vote
by the 18th so as to avoid it being questioned whether or not it should be
counted.
-Alicia
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 7:27 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Not sure a Bylaws change is required Joe- this has been custom and I’m
> willing to hear your custom.
> If this is going to be issue. I’m just going to do everything by
> mountain time or eastern time.
> But we sure do find a way to major on the minors.
> This vote end date I am leaving the same pending a correction by the
> Chiair but members should take note.
> Future ones I’ll take care of at a different time of day or switch the
> custom to something more convenient to me. My job is eastern time so
> that is what I would likely choose and everyone seems very familiar
> with that as a standard.
> One thing I’m not going to do is argue about it.
> -Caryn Ann
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 7:36 AM Joe Bishop-Henchman
> <[1]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org> wrote:
>
> Not on this point precisely, but I do have a suggestion in this
> regard
> that would not require a Bylaws change. Rather than making the due
> date
> at midnight PT as is current custom, instead it being noon PT or 5pm
> PT.
> We in DC certainly love our midnight deadlines on government
> shutdowns
> and budget deals and whatnot but it does result in unnecessary late
> nights.
> When I was chair of Bylaws, I had a couple occasions of being up
> until
> 3am (midnight PT) to immediately begin votes on submitted proposals
> or
> to process results, particularly on series of related e-mail ballots
> (amendments to a proposal, or motions to reconsider) near our final
> deadline where we couldn't lose a day. I know we have some night
> owls
> but I might prefer if we didn't technically transact business in the
> middle of the night.
> JBH
> On 2018-07-13 23:20, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> > I always understood it to be given the benefit of the doubt on
> both
> > ends per your email to the list in 2016 to interpret things the
> most
> > generous way possible. That is my interpretation and I ask the
> > Chair’s
> > advice on this.
> > I have been calculating the beginning date as Mountain and end
> as
> > Pacific to give the most generous interpretation. This only
> comes
> > into
> > play in the two hour window around midnight which though is a
> > typical
> > work time for me.
> > -Caryn Ann
> > On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 9:03 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
> > <[1][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Okay, this is a time zone issue, but shouldn't this email
> > ballot
> > end on
> > July 18 instead of July 19?
> > If the end date is for the Pacific time zone, shouldn't
> the
> > start
> > date
> > also be considered as the Pacific time zone? When this
> was
> > sent,
> > it
> > was July 12 in Colorado, but it was still July 11 in
> Pacific
> > time...
> > Then 7 days would make it end a second before midnight on
> July
> > 18
> > instead. With it starting on July 11 Pacific but ending
> on
> > July
> > 19
> > Pacific, we're spanning 8 days rather than 7 days.
> > -Alicia
> > On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 11:53 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
> > Lnc-business
> > <[1][2][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due to
> the
> > LNC-Business
> > list by July 19, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
> > Co-Sponsors:
> > Bowden,
> > Harlos, Longstreth, Mattson
> > Motion: Move that the LNC would have an audit of the
> At
> > Large
> > ballots
> > done by two independent auditors appointed by the
> Chair,
> > ie
> > someone not
> > in the race. You can keep track of the Secretary's
> manual
> > tally
> > of
> > votes here: [1][2][3][4]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> > --
> > --
> > In Liberty,
> > Caryn Ann Harlos
> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> > Secretary
> > - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
> > LPedia at LP.org
> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> > We defend your rights
> > And oppose the use of force
> > Taxation is theft
> > References
> > 1. [3][4][5]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> > 2. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> > References
> > 1. mailto:[5][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> > 2. [6][7]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> > 3. [7][8]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> > 4. mailto:[8]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > In Liberty,
> > Caryn Ann Harlos
> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> > - [9]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> > We defend your rights
> > And oppose the use of force
> > Taxation is theft
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:[9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> > 2. mailto:[10]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> > 3. [11]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> > 4. [12]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> > 5. mailto:[13]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> > 6. [14]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> > 7. [15]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> > 8. mailto:[16]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> > 9. mailto:[17]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> --
> JBH
> ------------
> Joe Bishop-Henchman
> LNC Member (At-Large)
> [18]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> [19]www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>
> --
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> - [20]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 5. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 7. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 8. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 10. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 11. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 12. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 13. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 14. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 15. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 16. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 17. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 18. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 19. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
> 20. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
I think we should use whichever time zone the secretary feels is
optimal for her convenience. To me, it seems like you'd want to do it
all on Mountain Time so that when you put a mail ballot out you don't
have to take the extra step of asking what day it is in another time
zone. Just add 7 days to whatever date it is for you when you send
it. But whatever time zone you pick as the start point, that same time
zone must be used as the end point.
The two reasonable interpretations of the 7-day period are:
1) 7 days * 24 hours = 168 hours - so it would end exactly 168 hours
later to the second, and we'd all have to pay attention to the time of
day on each email ballot to make sure our votes are cast on time
2) 7 calendar days, in the sense that something that happens at any
time on Wednesday is only one day after Tuesday. We've used this
approach so we could have a consistent ending time of 11:59:59 on the
7th day, and we don't have to remember different ending times for each
mail ballot.
For this email ballot to start at 11:53 Pacific on June 11, and end at
11:59:59 Pacific on June 19, that means it is open for 8 periods of 24
hours plus 7 minutes, though the bylaws prescribe a 7-day voting
period.
Ending instead at 11:59:59 on June 18 means it is open for 7 days and 7
minutes.
Any vote that is cast on the 8th day should not be counted, per LP
Bylaws which prescribe a 7-day vote. I don't see a good argument that
a 7-day time frame runs longer than 8 days. I urge my fellow LNC
members to vote by the 18th so as to avoid it being questioned whether
or not it should be counted.
-Alicia
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 7:27 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
<[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Not sure a Bylaws change is required Joe- this has been custom
and I’m
willing to hear your custom.
If this is going to be issue. I’m just going to do everything by
mountain time or eastern time.
But we sure do find a way to major on the minors.
This vote end date I am leaving the same pending a correction by
the
Chiair but members should take note.
Future ones I’ll take care of at a different time of day or
switch the
custom to something more convenient to me. My job is eastern
time so
that is what I would likely choose and everyone seems very
familiar
with that as a standard.
One thing I’m not going to do is argue about it.
-Caryn Ann
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 7:36 AM Joe Bishop-Henchman
<[1][2]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org> wrote:
Not on this point precisely, but I do have a suggestion in this
regard
that would not require a Bylaws change. Rather than making the due
date
at midnight PT as is current custom, instead it being noon PT or
5pm
PT.
We in DC certainly love our midnight deadlines on government
shutdowns
and budget deals and whatnot but it does result in unnecessary
late
nights.
When I was chair of Bylaws, I had a couple occasions of being up
until
3am (midnight PT) to immediately begin votes on submitted
proposals
or
to process results, particularly on series of related e-mail
ballots
(amendments to a proposal, or motions to reconsider) near our
final
deadline where we couldn't lose a day. I know we have some night
owls
but I might prefer if we didn't technically transact business in
the
middle of the night.
JBH
On 2018-07-13 23:20, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> I always understood it to be given the benefit of the doubt on
both
> ends per your email to the list in 2016 to interpret things
the
most
> generous way possible. That is my interpretation and I ask
the
> Chair’s
> advice on this.
> I have been calculating the beginning date as Mountain and
end
as
> Pacific to give the most generous interpretation. This only
comes
> into
> play in the two hour window around midnight which though is a
> typical
> work time for me.
> -Caryn Ann
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 9:03 PM Alicia Mattson via
Lnc-business
> <[1][2][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> Okay, this is a time zone issue, but shouldn't this
email
> ballot
> end on
> July 18 instead of July 19?
> If the end date is for the Pacific time zone, shouldn't
the
> start
> date
> also be considered as the Pacific time zone? When this
was
> sent,
> it
> was July 12 in Colorado, but it was still July 11 in
Pacific
> time...
> Then 7 days would make it end a second before midnight
on
July
> 18
> instead. With it starting on July 11 Pacific but ending
on
> July
> 19
> Pacific, we're spanning 8 days rather than 7 days.
> -Alicia
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 11:53 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
> Lnc-business
> <[1][2][3][4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due
to
the
> LNC-Business
> list by July 19, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific
time.
> Co-Sponsors:
> Bowden,
> Harlos, Longstreth, Mattson
> Motion: Move that the LNC would have an audit of
the
At
> Large
> ballots
> done by two independent auditors appointed by
the
Chair,
> ie
> someone not
> in the race. You can keep track of the
Secretary's
manual
> tally
> of
> votes here: [1][2][3][4][5]https://tinyurl.
com/lncvoting
> --
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National
Committee
> Secretary
> - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or
Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
> LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
> References
> 1. [3][4][5][6]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 2. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> References
> 1. mailto:[5][6][7]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. [6][7][8]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 3. [7][8][9]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 4. mailto:[8]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
> --
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary
> - [9]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[9][10]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. mailto:[10][11]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. [11][12]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 4. [12][13]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 5. mailto:[13][14]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 6. [14][15]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 7. [15][16]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 8. mailto:[16]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 9. mailto:[17]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
JBH
------------
Joe Bishop-Henchman
LNC Member (At-Large)
[18][17]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
[19][18]www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
- [20]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:[19]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
2. mailto:[20]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. mailto:[21]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. [22]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
5. [23]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
6. mailto:[24]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
7. [25]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
8. [26]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
9. mailto:[27]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
10. mailto:[28]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
11. [29]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
12. [30]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
13. mailto:[31]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
14. [32]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
15. [33]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
16. mailto:[34]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
17. mailto:[35]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
18. mailto:[36]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
19. [37]http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
20. mailto:[38]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
References
1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
5. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
6. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
7. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
8. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
9. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
10. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
12. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
13. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
14. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
15. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
16. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
17. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
18. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
19. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
20. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
21. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
22. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
23. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
24. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
25. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
26. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
27. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
28. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
29. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
30. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
31. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
32. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
33. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
34. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
35. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
36. mailto:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
37. http://www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
38. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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