[Lnc-business] Fwd: Judicial Committee motions

Sam Goldstein sam.goldstein at lp.org
Mon Jul 16 12:27:23 EDT 2018


I believe that Ms. Harlos is asking for an actual paper ballot mailed to 
delegates for a JC vote which is
expensive and not likely to get anywhere close to a 50% response.  We 
have no precedent or procedure for
an email ballot of delegates which is also likely to not get a 50% 
response.

I am content to let the former JC's solution ride with no further action 
by the LNC since we have no authority
in the matter anyway.

---
Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
317-850-0726 Cell

On 2018-07-16 12:03, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> Which is what we theoretically have now.  Same 2 choices. So yes, same
>    result.  As for the rest, we were selected to REPRESENT THEM.  But
>    honestly that point is moot at this time.
>    I maintain my one objection/modification regarding credentialed
>    delegates, if that is present I will support this.
>    Though compelled to point out I already said I would, and if this
>    option of 1 email ballot, instead of multiple rounds that were, had
>    been presented at the first, I would have supported it then.
>    I also feel compelled to point out that if people thought what Nick 
> did
>    was "leading" the delegates, this is as much or more so.  Not a 
> problem
>    with me because I disagreed with that statement from the time I 
> heard
>    it, but it needed to be said.
>    John Phillips
>    Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>    Cell [1]217-412-5973
> 
>    ------ Original message------
>    From: Caryn Ann Harlos
>    Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2018 10:36 AM
>    To: [2]john.phillips at lp.org;
>    Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business;
>    Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Fwd: Judicial Committee motions
>    It *may* not result in the same thing - the delegates could choose 
> no
>    JC.  *Who* makes the decision makes all the difference in the world,
>    not *what* the decision is.
>    -Caryn Ann
>    On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 9:10 AM, [3]john.phillips at lp.org
>    <[4]john.phillips at lp.org> wrote:
> 
>    So basically exactly the same thing, same result as we would have 
> had?
>    Which was what was basically already suggested to us by the precious
>    JC.  You just want it to be email ballot of delegates instead of the
>    LNC?
>    Ok.  If that will get this done, lets get it done.  My patience, and
>    that of the delegates in my region, for jumping through hoops on 
> this
>    when it could have already been done with exactly the same results 
> is
>    wearing thin.
>    HOWEVER, If we are going to be so meticulous about it , then it 
> should
>    only be those delegates still credentialed at the close.  People who
>    left early already knew they were giving up their votes and should 
> not
>    magically get a new vote.
>    Considering the last section - they are going to proceed as if they
>    were elected already - lets get this done and move the hell on.
>    John Phillips
>    Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>    Cell [5]217-412-5973
>    ------ Original message------
>    From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>    Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2018 9:21 AM
>    To: Libertarian National Committee list;
>    Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos;
>    Subject:[Lnc-business] Fwd: Judicial Committee motions
> Please see the below communication from Chuck Moulton.
> 
> Which brings to mind another way to handle.  Since the maybe JC did 
> this
> outside of our direction - if we refer ratification of this to the
> delegates my mail - majority vote- we have as legitimate of JC that we 
> are
> going to get.
> 
> -Caryn Ann
> 
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Chuck Moulton
> Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:41 AM
> Subject: Judicial Committee motions
> To: Nick Sarwark , Caryn Ann Harlos
> CC: D Frank Robinson , Chuck Moulton <[6]
> chuck at moulton.org>, Darryl Perry , Ruth Bennett <[7]
> bennettruthaz at gmail.com>, Geoff Neale , Jim Turney <[8]
> LP at jimturney.com>, Tricia Sprankle , Alicia Dearn <[9]
> aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com>, William Hall , John Buttrick <[10]
> jabuttrick at gmail.com>, Rob Latham , Michael Badnarik <[11]
> scholar at constitutionpreservation.org>, Gary Johnson
> 
> 
> Chuck Moulton wrote (7/6/2018 at 4:31 pm):
>> Because no one received a majority vote with approval voting, there is 
>> a
>> controversy as to whether the Judicial Committee was properly elected.
>> 
>> Without getting into details of the relative merits of each
>> interpretation, I believe this is an exhaustive list:
>> 
>> 1. The convention elected all 7 JC members by plurality (the motion to
>> suspend the rules for at-large applies to JC because our rules say the
>> JC uses the same method of election as at-large).
>> 
>> 2. The convention elected 5 JC members by plurality (the motion
>> referenced above explicitly said the top 5 would be elected by 
>> plurality)
>> 
>> 3. The JC from the previous term continues serving another 2 or 4 
>> years
>> (no one received a majority)
>> 
>> 4. The LNC can appoint the JC (the LNC can fill at-large vacancies, 
>> and
>> our rules say the JC is elected by the same method as at-large)
>> 
>> 5. We have no JC (no one received a majority and our bylaws say the JC
>> serves until the final adjournment of the next convention rather than
>> when the next JC is elected)
>> 
>> I can't do anything about interpretation #5.
>> 
>> I am trying my best to at least make the interpretations in #1, #2, 
>> #3,
>> and #4 be the same people so those with different interpretations 
>> don't
>> think we have 4 different JCs.  I believe this will add to the
>> legitimacy of the JC.
> 
> 
> Mr. Chair and Ms. Secretary,
> 
> 
> Please relay the following information to the Libertarian National
> Committee.  I write both on behalf of the [12]2016-2018 Judicial 
> Committee
> and on behalf of the [13]2018-2020 Judicial Committee.
> 
> 
> First (to harmonize #3 with #1), the Judicial Committee from the
> 
>    [14]2016-2018 term (which consisted of Michael Badnarik, John 
> Buttrick,
>    Alicia Dearn, Bill Hall, Gary E. Johnson, Rob Latham, and Chuck 
> Moulton
>    with Chuck Moulton serving as chair) passed the following motion by
>    email ballot with a vote of 6-0-1: ------------------------------
>    ---------------------------------------- I move that the following
>    people be appointed to the Judicial Committee to fill the 6 
> vacancies
>    created upon the resignations of 6 members of the Judicial 
> Committee: *
>    D. Frank Robinson * Darryl Perry * Ruth Bennett * Geoff Neale * Jim
>    Turney * Tricia Sprankle ------------------------------
>    ---------------------------------------- The following members of 
> the
>    old JC submitted letters of resignation contingent on the motion
>    passing: * Alicia Dearn * John Buttrick * Bill Hall * Rob Latham *
>    Michael Badnarik Gary E. Johnson did not respond to emails, 
> participate
>    in the vote, or submit a letter of resignation. By phone he told me
>    that he is not on the Judicial Committee. He also believes we have 
> no
>    JC this term. Second (to harmonize #2 with #1), the Judicial 
> Committee
>    which was arguably elected by plurality for the [15]2016-2018 term
>    under the interpretation that the top 5 (but not the top 7) were
>    elected (which consisted of D. Frank Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl
>    Perry, Ruth Bennett, and Geoff Neale with Chuck Moulton serving as
>    interim chair) passed the following motion by email ballot with a 
> vote
>    of 5-0-0: 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>    ---------- I move that the following people be appointed to the
>    Judicial Committee to fill the 2 vacancies left on Judicial 
> Committee
>    (if such vacancies exist): * Jim Turney * Tricia Sprankle
>    
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>    At this point we 7 (D. Frank Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry,
>    Ruth Bennett, Geoff Neale, Jim Turney, and Tricia Sprankle) plan to
>    elect a committee chair and consider rules of appellate procedure to
>    submit to the Libertarian National Committee by the 90 day deadline 
> in
>    bylaw 8.3. We realize that the JC election may still be a mess, but 
> any
>    further resolution is out of our hands. Therefore, we will proceed 
> as
>    if we were legitimately elected in order to meet bylaws deadlines.
>    Chuck Moulton Interim Chair, [16]2018-2020 LP Judicial Committee 
> Chair,
>    [17]2016-2018
>    LP Judicial Committee -- -- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
>    [18]Caryn.Ann.[19] Harlos at LP.org or[20] Secretary at LP.org. Chair, LP
>    Historical Preservation Committee -[21] LPedia at LP.org A haiku to the
>    Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use 
> of
>    force* *Taxation is theft* Please see the below communication from
>    Chuck Moulton. Which brings to mind another way to handle. Since the
>    maybe JC did this outside of our direction - if we refer 
> ratification
>    of this to the delegates my mail - majority vote- we have as 
> legitimate
>    of JC that we are going to get. -Caryn Ann ---------- Forwarded 
> message
>    --------- From: Chuck Moulton <[1[22]]chuck at moulton.org> Date: Mon, 
> Jul
>    16, 2018 at 7:41 AM Subject: Judicial Committee motions To: Nick
>    Sarwark <[2[23]]chair at lp.org>, Caryn Ann Harlos
>    <[3[24]]secretary at lp.org> CC: D Frank Robinson
>    <[4[25]]dfrank_robinson at yahoo.com>, Chuck Moulton
>    <[5[26]]chuck at moulton.org>, Darryl Perry
>    <[6[27]]Darryl at darrylwperry.com>, Ruth Bennett
>    <[7[28]]bennettruthaz at gmail.com>, Geoff Neale
>    <[8[29]]liber8or at austin.rr.com>, Jim Turney 
> <[9[30]]LP at jimturney.com>,
>    Tricia Sprankle <[10[31]]tricia at spranklelaw.com>, Alicia Dearn
>    <[11[32]]aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com>, William Hall
>    <[12[33]]WHall at wnj.com>, John Buttrick 
> <[13[34]]jabuttrick at gmail.com>,
>    Rob Latham <[14[35]]freeutahns at gmail.com>, Michael Badnarik
>    <[15[36]]scholar at constitutionpreservation.org>, Gary Johnson
>    <[16[37]]sedition at aol.com> Chuck Moulton wrote (7/6/2018 at 4:31 
> pm): >
>    Because no one received a majority vote with approval voting, there 
> is
>    a > controversy as to whether the Judicial Committee was properly
>    elected. > > Without getting into details of the relative merits of
>    each > interpretation, I believe this is an exhaustive list: > > 1. 
> The
>    convention elected all 7 JC members by plurality (the motion to >
>    suspend the rules for at-large applies to JC because our rules say 
> the
>    > JC uses the same method of election as at-large). > > 2. The
>    convention elected 5 JC members by plurality (the motion > 
> referenced
>    above explicitly said the top 5 would be elected by plurality) > > 
> 3.
>    The JC from the previous term continues serving another 2 or 4 years 
> >
>    (no one received a majority) > > 4. The LNC can appoint the JC (the 
> LNC
>    can fill at-large vacancies, and > our rules say the JC is elected 
> by
>    the same method as at-large) > > 5. We have no JC (no one received a
>    majority and our bylaws say the JC > serves until the final 
> adjournment
>    of the next convention rather than > when the next JC is elected) > 
> > I
>    can't do anything about interpretation #5. > > I am trying my best 
> to
>    at least make the interpretations in #1, #2, #3, > and #4 be the 
> same
>    people so those with different interpretations don't > think we have 
> 4
>    different JCs. I believe this will add to the > legitimacy of the 
> JC.
>    Mr. Chair and Ms. Secretary, Please relay the following information 
> to
>    the Libertarian National Committee. I write both on behalf of the
>    [38]2016-2018 Judicial Committee and on behalf of the [39]2018-2020
>    Judicial Committee. First (to harmonize #3 with #1), the Judicial
>    Committee from the
>    [40]2016-2018 term (which consisted of Michael Badnarik, John 
> Buttrick,
>    Alicia Dearn, Bill Hall, Gary E. Johnson, Rob Latham, and Chuck 
> Moulton
>    with Chuck Moulton serving as chair) passed the following motion by
>    email ballot with a vote of 6-0-1: ------------------------------
>    ---------------------------------------- I move that the following
>    people be appointed to the Judicial Committee to fill the 6 
> vacancies
>    created upon the resignations of 6 members of the Judicial 
> Committee: *
>    D. Frank Robinson * Darryl Perry * Ruth Bennett * Geoff Neale * Jim
>    Turney * Tricia Sprankle ------------------------------
>    ---------------------------------------- The following members of 
> the
>    old JC submitted letters of resignation contingent on the motion
>    passing: * Alicia Dearn * John Buttrick * Bill Hall * Rob Latham *
>    Michael Badnarik Gary E. Johnson did not respond to emails, 
> participate
>    in the vote, or submit a letter of resignation. By phone he told me
>    that he is not on the Judicial Committee. He also believes we have 
> no
>    JC this term. Second (to harmonize #2 with #1), the Judicial 
> Committee
>    which was arguably elected by plurality for the [41]2016-2018 term
>    under the interpretation that the top 5 (but not the top 7) were
>    elected (which consisted of D. Frank Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl
>    Perry, Ruth Bennett, and Geoff Neale with Chuck Moulton serving as
>    interim chair) passed the following motion by email ballot with a 
> vote
>    of 5-0-0: 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>    ---------- I move that the following people be appointed to the
>    Judicial Committee to fill the 2 vacancies left on Judicial 
> Committee
>    (if such vacancies exist): * Jim Turney * Tricia Sprankle
>    
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>    At this point we 7 (D. Frank Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry,
>    Ruth Bennett, Geoff Neale, Jim Turney, and Tricia Sprankle) plan to
>    elect a committee chair and consider rules of appellate procedure to
>    submit to the Libertarian National Committee by the 90 day deadline 
> in
>    bylaw 8.3. We realize that the JC election may still be a mess, but 
> any
>    further resolution is out of our hands. Therefore, we will proceed 
> as
>    if we were legitimately elected in order to meet bylaws deadlines.
>    Chuck Moulton Interim Chair, [42]2018-2020 LP Judicial Committee 
> Chair,
>    [43]2016-2018
>    LP Judicial Committee -- -- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Libertarian
>    Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
>    [17][44]Caryn.Ann.[45] Harlos at LP.org or[46] Secretary at LP.org. Chair, 
> LP
>    Historical Preservation Committee -[47] LPedia at LP.org A haiku to the
>    Statement of Principles: We defend your rights And oppose the use of
>    force Taxation is theft References 1. mailto[48]:chuck at moulton.org 
> 2.
>    mailto[49]:chair at lp.org 3. mailto[50]:secretary at lp.org 4.
>    mailto[51]:dfrank_robinson at yahoo.com 5. mailto[52]:chuck at moulton.org 
> 6.
>    mailto[53]:Darryl at darrylwperry.com 7.
>    mailto[54]:bennettruthaz at gmail.com 8. 
> mailto[55]:liber8or at austin.rr.com
>    9. mailto[56]:LP at jimturney.com 10. mailto[57]:tricia at spranklelaw.com
>    11. mailto[58]:aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com 12.
>    mailto[59]:WHall at wnj.com 13. mailto[60]:jabuttrick at gmail.com 14.
>    mailto[61]:freeutahns at gmail.com 15. mailto[62]:scholar@
>    constitutionpreservation.org 16. mailto[63]:sedition at aol.com 17.
>    mailto[64]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 
>    --
> 
>    --
>    In Liberty,
>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>    - [65]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or[66] Secretary at LP.org.
>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[67] LPedia at LP.org
>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>    We defend your rights
>    And oppose the use of force
>    Taxation is theft
> 
> References
> 
>    1. tel:217-412-5973
>    2. mailto:john.phillips at lp.org
>    3. mailto:john.phillips at lp.org
>    4. mailto:john.phillips at lp.org
>    5. tel:217-412-5973
>    6. mailto:chuck at moulton.org
>    7. mailto:bennettruthaz at gmail.com
>    8. mailto:LP at jimturney.com
>    9. mailto:aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com
>   10. mailto:jabuttrick at gmail.com
>   11. mailto:scholar at constitutionpreservation.org
>   12. tel:2016-2018
>   13. tel:2018-2020
>   14. tel:2016-2018
>   15. tel:2016-2018
>   16. tel:2018-2020
>   17. tel:2016-2018
>   18. http://Caryn.An/
>   19. mailto:Harlos at LP.org
>   20. mailto:+Secretary at LP.org.
>   21. mailto:+LPedia at LP.org
>   22. mailto:]chuck at moulton.org
>   23. mailto:]chair at lp.org
>   24. mailto:]secretary at lp.org
>   25. mailto:]dfrank_robinson at yahoo.com
>   26. mailto:]chuck at moulton.org
>   27. mailto:]Darryl at darrylwperry.com
>   28. mailto:]bennettruthaz at gmail.com
>   29. mailto:]liber8or at austin.rr.com
>   30. mailto:]LP at jimturney.com
>   31. mailto:]tricia at spranklelaw.com
>   32. mailto:]aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com
>   33. mailto:]WHall at wnj.com
>   34. mailto:]jabuttrick at gmail.com
>   35. mailto:]freeutahns at gmail.com
>   36. mailto:]scholar at constitutionpreservation.org
>   37. mailto:]sedition at aol.com
>   38. tel:2016-2018
>   39. tel:2018-2020
>   40. tel:2016-2018
>   41. tel:2016-2018
>   42. tel:2018-2020
>   43. tel:2016-2018
>   44. http://Caryn.An/
>   45. mailto:+Harlos at LP.org
>   46. mailto:+Secretary at LP.org.
>   47. mailto:+LPedia at LP.org
>   48. mailto::chuck at moulton.org
>   49. mailto::chair at lp.org
>   50. mailto::secretary at lp.org
>   51. mailto::dfrank_robinson at yahoo.com
>   52. mailto::chuck at moulton.org
>   53. mailto::Darryl at darrylwperry.com
>   54. mailto::bennettruthaz at gmail.com
>   55. mailto::liber8or at austin.rr.com
>   56. mailto::LP at jimturney.com
>   57. mailto::tricia at spranklelaw.com
>   58. mailto::aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com
>   59. mailto::WHall at wnj.com
>   60. mailto::jabuttrick at gmail.com
>   61. mailto::freeutahns at gmail.com
>   62. mailto::scholar at constitutionpreservation.org
>   63. mailto::sedition at aol.com
>   64. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>   65. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>   66. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
>   67. mailto: LPedia at LP.org



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