[Lnc-business] Fwd: Judicial Committee motions
Sam Goldstein
sam.goldstein at lp.org
Mon Jul 16 12:27:23 EDT 2018
I believe that Ms. Harlos is asking for an actual paper ballot mailed to
delegates for a JC vote which is
expensive and not likely to get anywhere close to a 50% response. We
have no precedent or procedure for
an email ballot of delegates which is also likely to not get a 50%
response.
I am content to let the former JC's solution ride with no further action
by the LNC since we have no authority
in the matter anyway.
---
Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
317-850-0726 Cell
On 2018-07-16 12:03, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> Which is what we theoretically have now. Same 2 choices. So yes, same
> result. As for the rest, we were selected to REPRESENT THEM. But
> honestly that point is moot at this time.
> I maintain my one objection/modification regarding credentialed
> delegates, if that is present I will support this.
> Though compelled to point out I already said I would, and if this
> option of 1 email ballot, instead of multiple rounds that were, had
> been presented at the first, I would have supported it then.
> I also feel compelled to point out that if people thought what Nick
> did
> was "leading" the delegates, this is as much or more so. Not a
> problem
> with me because I disagreed with that statement from the time I
> heard
> it, but it needed to be said.
> John Phillips
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> Cell [1]217-412-5973
>
> ------ Original message------
> From: Caryn Ann Harlos
> Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2018 10:36 AM
> To: [2]john.phillips at lp.org;
> Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business;
> Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Fwd: Judicial Committee motions
> It *may* not result in the same thing - the delegates could choose
> no
> JC. *Who* makes the decision makes all the difference in the world,
> not *what* the decision is.
> -Caryn Ann
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 9:10 AM, [3]john.phillips at lp.org
> <[4]john.phillips at lp.org> wrote:
>
> So basically exactly the same thing, same result as we would have
> had?
> Which was what was basically already suggested to us by the precious
> JC. You just want it to be email ballot of delegates instead of the
> LNC?
> Ok. If that will get this done, lets get it done. My patience, and
> that of the delegates in my region, for jumping through hoops on
> this
> when it could have already been done with exactly the same results
> is
> wearing thin.
> HOWEVER, If we are going to be so meticulous about it , then it
> should
> only be those delegates still credentialed at the close. People who
> left early already knew they were giving up their votes and should
> not
> magically get a new vote.
> Considering the last section - they are going to proceed as if they
> were elected already - lets get this done and move the hell on.
> John Phillips
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> Cell [5]217-412-5973
> ------ Original message------
> From: Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
> Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2018 9:21 AM
> To: Libertarian National Committee list;
> Cc: Caryn Ann Harlos;
> Subject:[Lnc-business] Fwd: Judicial Committee motions
> Please see the below communication from Chuck Moulton.
>
> Which brings to mind another way to handle. Since the maybe JC did
> this
> outside of our direction - if we refer ratification of this to the
> delegates my mail - majority vote- we have as legitimate of JC that we
> are
> going to get.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Chuck Moulton
> Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 7:41 AM
> Subject: Judicial Committee motions
> To: Nick Sarwark , Caryn Ann Harlos
> CC: D Frank Robinson , Chuck Moulton <[6]
> chuck at moulton.org>, Darryl Perry , Ruth Bennett <[7]
> bennettruthaz at gmail.com>, Geoff Neale , Jim Turney <[8]
> LP at jimturney.com>, Tricia Sprankle , Alicia Dearn <[9]
> aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com>, William Hall , John Buttrick <[10]
> jabuttrick at gmail.com>, Rob Latham , Michael Badnarik <[11]
> scholar at constitutionpreservation.org>, Gary Johnson
>
>
> Chuck Moulton wrote (7/6/2018 at 4:31 pm):
>> Because no one received a majority vote with approval voting, there is
>> a
>> controversy as to whether the Judicial Committee was properly elected.
>>
>> Without getting into details of the relative merits of each
>> interpretation, I believe this is an exhaustive list:
>>
>> 1. The convention elected all 7 JC members by plurality (the motion to
>> suspend the rules for at-large applies to JC because our rules say the
>> JC uses the same method of election as at-large).
>>
>> 2. The convention elected 5 JC members by plurality (the motion
>> referenced above explicitly said the top 5 would be elected by
>> plurality)
>>
>> 3. The JC from the previous term continues serving another 2 or 4
>> years
>> (no one received a majority)
>>
>> 4. The LNC can appoint the JC (the LNC can fill at-large vacancies,
>> and
>> our rules say the JC is elected by the same method as at-large)
>>
>> 5. We have no JC (no one received a majority and our bylaws say the JC
>> serves until the final adjournment of the next convention rather than
>> when the next JC is elected)
>>
>> I can't do anything about interpretation #5.
>>
>> I am trying my best to at least make the interpretations in #1, #2,
>> #3,
>> and #4 be the same people so those with different interpretations
>> don't
>> think we have 4 different JCs. I believe this will add to the
>> legitimacy of the JC.
>
>
> Mr. Chair and Ms. Secretary,
>
>
> Please relay the following information to the Libertarian National
> Committee. I write both on behalf of the [12]2016-2018 Judicial
> Committee
> and on behalf of the [13]2018-2020 Judicial Committee.
>
>
> First (to harmonize #3 with #1), the Judicial Committee from the
>
> [14]2016-2018 term (which consisted of Michael Badnarik, John
> Buttrick,
> Alicia Dearn, Bill Hall, Gary E. Johnson, Rob Latham, and Chuck
> Moulton
> with Chuck Moulton serving as chair) passed the following motion by
> email ballot with a vote of 6-0-1: ------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------- I move that the following
> people be appointed to the Judicial Committee to fill the 6
> vacancies
> created upon the resignations of 6 members of the Judicial
> Committee: *
> D. Frank Robinson * Darryl Perry * Ruth Bennett * Geoff Neale * Jim
> Turney * Tricia Sprankle ------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------- The following members of
> the
> old JC submitted letters of resignation contingent on the motion
> passing: * Alicia Dearn * John Buttrick * Bill Hall * Rob Latham *
> Michael Badnarik Gary E. Johnson did not respond to emails,
> participate
> in the vote, or submit a letter of resignation. By phone he told me
> that he is not on the Judicial Committee. He also believes we have
> no
> JC this term. Second (to harmonize #2 with #1), the Judicial
> Committee
> which was arguably elected by plurality for the [15]2016-2018 term
> under the interpretation that the top 5 (but not the top 7) were
> elected (which consisted of D. Frank Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl
> Perry, Ruth Bennett, and Geoff Neale with Chuck Moulton serving as
> interim chair) passed the following motion by email ballot with a
> vote
> of 5-0-0:
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------- I move that the following people be appointed to the
> Judicial Committee to fill the 2 vacancies left on Judicial
> Committee
> (if such vacancies exist): * Jim Turney * Tricia Sprankle
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> At this point we 7 (D. Frank Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry,
> Ruth Bennett, Geoff Neale, Jim Turney, and Tricia Sprankle) plan to
> elect a committee chair and consider rules of appellate procedure to
> submit to the Libertarian National Committee by the 90 day deadline
> in
> bylaw 8.3. We realize that the JC election may still be a mess, but
> any
> further resolution is out of our hands. Therefore, we will proceed
> as
> if we were legitimately elected in order to meet bylaws deadlines.
> Chuck Moulton Interim Chair, [16]2018-2020 LP Judicial Committee
> Chair,
> [17]2016-2018
> LP Judicial Committee -- -- *In Liberty,* *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
> [18]Caryn.Ann.[19] Harlos at LP.org or[20] Secretary at LP.org. Chair, LP
> Historical Preservation Committee -[21] LPedia at LP.org A haiku to the
> Statement of Principles: *We defend your rights* *And oppose the use
> of
> force* *Taxation is theft* Please see the below communication from
> Chuck Moulton. Which brings to mind another way to handle. Since the
> maybe JC did this outside of our direction - if we refer
> ratification
> of this to the delegates my mail - majority vote- we have as
> legitimate
> of JC that we are going to get. -Caryn Ann ---------- Forwarded
> message
> --------- From: Chuck Moulton <[1[22]]chuck at moulton.org> Date: Mon,
> Jul
> 16, 2018 at 7:41 AM Subject: Judicial Committee motions To: Nick
> Sarwark <[2[23]]chair at lp.org>, Caryn Ann Harlos
> <[3[24]]secretary at lp.org> CC: D Frank Robinson
> <[4[25]]dfrank_robinson at yahoo.com>, Chuck Moulton
> <[5[26]]chuck at moulton.org>, Darryl Perry
> <[6[27]]Darryl at darrylwperry.com>, Ruth Bennett
> <[7[28]]bennettruthaz at gmail.com>, Geoff Neale
> <[8[29]]liber8or at austin.rr.com>, Jim Turney
> <[9[30]]LP at jimturney.com>,
> Tricia Sprankle <[10[31]]tricia at spranklelaw.com>, Alicia Dearn
> <[11[32]]aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com>, William Hall
> <[12[33]]WHall at wnj.com>, John Buttrick
> <[13[34]]jabuttrick at gmail.com>,
> Rob Latham <[14[35]]freeutahns at gmail.com>, Michael Badnarik
> <[15[36]]scholar at constitutionpreservation.org>, Gary Johnson
> <[16[37]]sedition at aol.com> Chuck Moulton wrote (7/6/2018 at 4:31
> pm): >
> Because no one received a majority vote with approval voting, there
> is
> a > controversy as to whether the Judicial Committee was properly
> elected. > > Without getting into details of the relative merits of
> each > interpretation, I believe this is an exhaustive list: > > 1.
> The
> convention elected all 7 JC members by plurality (the motion to >
> suspend the rules for at-large applies to JC because our rules say
> the
> > JC uses the same method of election as at-large). > > 2. The
> convention elected 5 JC members by plurality (the motion >
> referenced
> above explicitly said the top 5 would be elected by plurality) > >
> 3.
> The JC from the previous term continues serving another 2 or 4 years
> >
> (no one received a majority) > > 4. The LNC can appoint the JC (the
> LNC
> can fill at-large vacancies, and > our rules say the JC is elected
> by
> the same method as at-large) > > 5. We have no JC (no one received a
> majority and our bylaws say the JC > serves until the final
> adjournment
> of the next convention rather than > when the next JC is elected) >
> > I
> can't do anything about interpretation #5. > > I am trying my best
> to
> at least make the interpretations in #1, #2, #3, > and #4 be the
> same
> people so those with different interpretations don't > think we have
> 4
> different JCs. I believe this will add to the > legitimacy of the
> JC.
> Mr. Chair and Ms. Secretary, Please relay the following information
> to
> the Libertarian National Committee. I write both on behalf of the
> [38]2016-2018 Judicial Committee and on behalf of the [39]2018-2020
> Judicial Committee. First (to harmonize #3 with #1), the Judicial
> Committee from the
> [40]2016-2018 term (which consisted of Michael Badnarik, John
> Buttrick,
> Alicia Dearn, Bill Hall, Gary E. Johnson, Rob Latham, and Chuck
> Moulton
> with Chuck Moulton serving as chair) passed the following motion by
> email ballot with a vote of 6-0-1: ------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------- I move that the following
> people be appointed to the Judicial Committee to fill the 6
> vacancies
> created upon the resignations of 6 members of the Judicial
> Committee: *
> D. Frank Robinson * Darryl Perry * Ruth Bennett * Geoff Neale * Jim
> Turney * Tricia Sprankle ------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------- The following members of
> the
> old JC submitted letters of resignation contingent on the motion
> passing: * Alicia Dearn * John Buttrick * Bill Hall * Rob Latham *
> Michael Badnarik Gary E. Johnson did not respond to emails,
> participate
> in the vote, or submit a letter of resignation. By phone he told me
> that he is not on the Judicial Committee. He also believes we have
> no
> JC this term. Second (to harmonize #2 with #1), the Judicial
> Committee
> which was arguably elected by plurality for the [41]2016-2018 term
> under the interpretation that the top 5 (but not the top 7) were
> elected (which consisted of D. Frank Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl
> Perry, Ruth Bennett, and Geoff Neale with Chuck Moulton serving as
> interim chair) passed the following motion by email ballot with a
> vote
> of 5-0-0:
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------- I move that the following people be appointed to the
> Judicial Committee to fill the 2 vacancies left on Judicial
> Committee
> (if such vacancies exist): * Jim Turney * Tricia Sprankle
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> At this point we 7 (D. Frank Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry,
> Ruth Bennett, Geoff Neale, Jim Turney, and Tricia Sprankle) plan to
> elect a committee chair and consider rules of appellate procedure to
> submit to the Libertarian National Committee by the 90 day deadline
> in
> bylaw 8.3. We realize that the JC election may still be a mess, but
> any
> further resolution is out of our hands. Therefore, we will proceed
> as
> if we were legitimately elected in order to meet bylaws deadlines.
> Chuck Moulton Interim Chair, [42]2018-2020 LP Judicial Committee
> Chair,
> [43]2016-2018
> LP Judicial Committee -- -- In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos Libertarian
> Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
> [17][44]Caryn.Ann.[45] Harlos at LP.org or[46] Secretary at LP.org. Chair,
> LP
> Historical Preservation Committee -[47] LPedia at LP.org A haiku to the
> Statement of Principles: We defend your rights And oppose the use of
> force Taxation is theft References 1. mailto[48]:chuck at moulton.org
> 2.
> mailto[49]:chair at lp.org 3. mailto[50]:secretary at lp.org 4.
> mailto[51]:dfrank_robinson at yahoo.com 5. mailto[52]:chuck at moulton.org
> 6.
> mailto[53]:Darryl at darrylwperry.com 7.
> mailto[54]:bennettruthaz at gmail.com 8.
> mailto[55]:liber8or at austin.rr.com
> 9. mailto[56]:LP at jimturney.com 10. mailto[57]:tricia at spranklelaw.com
> 11. mailto[58]:aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com 12.
> mailto[59]:WHall at wnj.com 13. mailto[60]:jabuttrick at gmail.com 14.
> mailto[61]:freeutahns at gmail.com 15. mailto[62]:scholar@
> constitutionpreservation.org 16. mailto[63]:sedition at aol.com 17.
> mailto[64]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
> --
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> - [65]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or[66] Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[67] LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. tel:217-412-5973
> 2. mailto:john.phillips at lp.org
> 3. mailto:john.phillips at lp.org
> 4. mailto:john.phillips at lp.org
> 5. tel:217-412-5973
> 6. mailto:chuck at moulton.org
> 7. mailto:bennettruthaz at gmail.com
> 8. mailto:LP at jimturney.com
> 9. mailto:aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com
> 10. mailto:jabuttrick at gmail.com
> 11. mailto:scholar at constitutionpreservation.org
> 12. tel:2016-2018
> 13. tel:2018-2020
> 14. tel:2016-2018
> 15. tel:2016-2018
> 16. tel:2018-2020
> 17. tel:2016-2018
> 18. http://Caryn.An/
> 19. mailto:Harlos at LP.org
> 20. mailto:+Secretary at LP.org.
> 21. mailto:+LPedia at LP.org
> 22. mailto:]chuck at moulton.org
> 23. mailto:]chair at lp.org
> 24. mailto:]secretary at lp.org
> 25. mailto:]dfrank_robinson at yahoo.com
> 26. mailto:]chuck at moulton.org
> 27. mailto:]Darryl at darrylwperry.com
> 28. mailto:]bennettruthaz at gmail.com
> 29. mailto:]liber8or at austin.rr.com
> 30. mailto:]LP at jimturney.com
> 31. mailto:]tricia at spranklelaw.com
> 32. mailto:]aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com
> 33. mailto:]WHall at wnj.com
> 34. mailto:]jabuttrick at gmail.com
> 35. mailto:]freeutahns at gmail.com
> 36. mailto:]scholar at constitutionpreservation.org
> 37. mailto:]sedition at aol.com
> 38. tel:2016-2018
> 39. tel:2018-2020
> 40. tel:2016-2018
> 41. tel:2016-2018
> 42. tel:2018-2020
> 43. tel:2016-2018
> 44. http://Caryn.An/
> 45. mailto:+Harlos at LP.org
> 46. mailto:+Secretary at LP.org.
> 47. mailto:+LPedia at LP.org
> 48. mailto::chuck at moulton.org
> 49. mailto::chair at lp.org
> 50. mailto::secretary at lp.org
> 51. mailto::dfrank_robinson at yahoo.com
> 52. mailto::chuck at moulton.org
> 53. mailto::Darryl at darrylwperry.com
> 54. mailto::bennettruthaz at gmail.com
> 55. mailto::liber8or at austin.rr.com
> 56. mailto::LP at jimturney.com
> 57. mailto::tricia at spranklelaw.com
> 58. mailto::aliciadearn at bellatrixlaw.com
> 59. mailto::WHall at wnj.com
> 60. mailto::jabuttrick at gmail.com
> 61. mailto::freeutahns at gmail.com
> 62. mailto::scholar at constitutionpreservation.org
> 63. mailto::sedition at aol.com
> 64. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 65. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 66. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
> 67. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
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