[Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix
Elizabeth Van Horn
elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
Sat Jul 21 06:17:27 EDT 2018
What matters is what actually happened at convention, and how the
national LP has bylaws and rules in place, which spells out the results
of what happened.
A self-appointed JC will have no authority. I doubt *that's* what the
delegates intended either, but that's what they'll get if the LNC and
LPHQ staff accept the self-proclaimed JC.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On 2018-07-21 04:56, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> If the JC sends me amended appellate rules I will direct the staff to
> post them absent a contrary directive from the Chair or a contrary
> motion from the LNC.
> There is no way the delegates intended to leave themselves without a
> watchdog. This is a matter of member rights and when I was regional
> I
> clearly told my Region that there was a big BUT to my
> representation.
> I would never advocate against my own principles (not merely
> opinion)
> or removing member rights.
> -Caryn Ann
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 1:20 AM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> JP> On a personal note. Are we not Libertarians? I find the
> arguments
> of rules and legality disturbingly dogmatic. We argue all the
> time
> about changing bad laws and rules that have created a problem,
> but when
> it comes down to our rules failing we can't adjust? Seems sort
> of
> hypocritical to me, actually far more than sort of.
> I don't understand how some Libertarians want to tell society
> that many
> things will work much better managed by voluntary agreements
> rather
> than by government, but then don't care about the terms of the
> voluntary agreement that is our organizational rules. If we
> won't
> follow our own agreements, that feels hypocritical to me, and
> it
> sets a
> poor example for the product we're trying to sell.
> -Alicia
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 10:26 AM, john.phillips--- via
> Lnc-business
> <[1][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Shrug. If I wanted to take it to a court of law I would
> have a
> 50/50
> shot imho, and that of the 8 lawyers I asked to look at
> it.
> Some
> of
> them thought they could win maybe 70%.
> So i would say the argument for them being the JC is as
> good
> as
> the
> argument against.
> However, the vast majority seem to want them from what I
> see, so
> I fail
> to see the issue that people keep making of this. Just
> accept it
> and
> move on, it is what we should have done from the
> beginning.
> On a personal note. Are we not Libertarians? I find the
> arguments of
> rules and legality disturbingly dogmatic. We argue all
> the
> time
> about
> changing bad laws and rules that have created a problem,
> but
> when
> it
> comes down to our rules failing we can't adjust? Seems
> sort
> of
> hypocritical to me, actually far more than sort of.
> So my stance is this. I stand opposed to anything that
> continues
> to
> drag this out. I stand opposed to anything other than
> accepting
> the
> recommendation of the previous JC and what appears to me
> to
> be
> the will
> of vast majority of our constituents. The correct route
> in
> my
> not so
> humble opinion is that we accept them, get the hell out of
> the
> way,
> move on, and hope we don't need them like the last LNC
> didn't.
> John Phillips
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> Cell [1]217-412-5973
> ------ Original message------
> From: Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
> Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2018 11:32 AM
> To: Caryn Ann Harlos;
> Cc: Elizabeth Van Horn[2];[2][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
> Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix
> They can disagree all they want. But, there's no authority
> for
> them.
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
> On [3]2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> > There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn wrote:
> >
> >> There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Elizabeth Van Horn
> >>
> >> On [4]2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
> wrote:
> >>> It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it
> is
> up
> to the
> >>> membership to complain about that if they wish. I submit
> we
> simply
> >>> go
> >>> on about our jobs and stay out of it.
> >>> -Caryn Ann
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via
> Lnc-business
> >>> <[1[5]][3][4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix. If
> >>> not,
> >>> could
> >>> we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion
> and
> >>> simply
> >>> not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion?
> I
> >>> want
> >>> to
> >>> fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward.
> I
> >>> abstained
> >>> last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
> >>> There is no good solution here, but one of may state chairs
> put
> >>> very
> >>> simply:
> >>> "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental
> and
> >>> don't
> >>> really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody is
> >>> going
> >>> to be
> >>> 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of the
> >>> first
> >>> true
> >>> membership affecting votes from the LNC."
> >>> We need to resolve and move forward.
> >>> Richard
> >>> --
> >>> Richard Longstreth
> >>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI,
> UT,
> >>> WA,
> >>> WY)
> >>> Libertarian National Committee
> >>> [1][2[6]][4][5]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >>> [7]931.538.9300
> >>> References
> >>> 1. mailto:[3[8]][5][6]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> --
> >>> In Liberty,
> >>> Caryn Ann Harlos
> >>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary
> >>> - [4][9]Caryn.Ann.[10] Harlos at LP.org or[11]
> Secretary at LP.org.
> >>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[12]
> LPedia at LP.org
> >>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> >>> We defend your rights
> >>> And oppose the use of force
> >>> Taxation is theft
> >>>
> >>> References
> >>>
> >>> 1. mailto[13]:[6][7]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >>> 2. mailto[14]:[7][8]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >>> 3. mailto[15]:[8][9]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >>> 4. mailto[16]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> > --
> >
> > --
> >
> > IN LIBERTY,
> > CARYN ANN HARLOS
> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary -
> [17]Caryn.Ann
> .[18] Harlos at LP.org or[19] Secretary at LP.org.
> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[20]
> LPedia at LP.org
> >
> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> > _We defend your rights_
> > _And oppose the use of force_
> > _Taxation is theft_
> They can disagree all they want. But, there's no
> authority
> for
> them.
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
> On [21]2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn
> <[1[22]][9][10]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
> There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
> On [23]2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via
> Lnc-business
> wrote:
> > It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve -
> it
> is
> up to
> the
> > membership to complain about that if they wish. I
> submit
> we
> simply
> > go
> > on about our jobs and stay out of it.
> > -Caryn Ann
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth
> via
> Lnc-business
> > <[1][2[24]][10][11]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> > I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in
> Phoenix.
> If
> > not,
> > could
> > we please add it? If not, are we done with that
> discussion
> and
> > simply
> > not having a JC or what are the next points of
> discussion?
> I
> > want
> > to
> > fully resolve this issue the best we can and
> move
> forward.
> I
> > abstained
> > last vote to approve but my mind is still not
> settled.
> > There is no good solution here, but one of may
> state
> chairs put
> > very
> > simply:
> > "I find this whole debacle with process to be
> detrimental
> and
> > don't
> > really care one way or the other how it pans
> out.
> Nobody
> is
> > going
> > to be
> > 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on
> some of
> the
> > first
> > true
> > membership affecting votes from the LNC."
> > We need to resolve and move forward.
> > Richard
> > --
> > Richard Longstreth
> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM,
> OR, HI,
> UT,
> > WA,
> > WY)
> > Libertarian National Committee
> > [1][2][3[25]][11][12]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> > [26]931.538.9300
> > References
> > 1.
> mailto:[3][4[27]][12][13]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >
> > --
> > --
> > In Liberty,
> > Caryn Ann Harlos
> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National
> Committee
> Secretary
> > - [4][28]Caryn.Ann.[29] Harlos at LP.org or[30]
> Secretary at LP.org.
> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[31]
> LPedia at LP.org
> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> > We defend your rights
> > And oppose the use of force
> > Taxation is theft
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:[5[32]][13][14]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> > 2. mailto:[6[33]][14][15]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> > 3. mailto:[7[34]][15][16]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> > 4. mailto:[8[35]]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> --
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary
> - [9][36]Caryn.Ann.[37] Harlos at LP.org or[38]
> Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[39]
> LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
> References
> 1. mailto[40]:[16][17]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 2. mailto[41]:[17][18]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. mailto[42]:[18][19]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 4. mailto[43]:[19][20]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 5. mailto[44]:[20][21]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 6. mailto[45]:[21][22]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 7. mailto[46]:[22][23]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 8. mailto[47]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 9. mailto[48]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> References
> 1. tel:217-412-5973
> 2. mailto:;[23][24]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. tel:2018-07-20 11
> 4. tel:2018-07-20 08
> 5. mailto:][24][25]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 6. mailto:][25][26]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 7. tel:931.538.9300
> 8. mailto:][26][27]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 9. [27][28]http://Caryn.An/
> 10. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
> 11. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
> 12. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
> 13. mailto::[28][29]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 14. mailto::[29][30]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 15. mailto::[30][31]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 16. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 17. [31][32]http://Caryn.An/
> 18. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
> 19. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
> 20. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
> 21. tel:2018-07-20 11
> 22. mailto:][32][33]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 23. tel:2018-07-20 08
> 24. mailto:][33][34]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 25. mailto:][34][35]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 26. tel:931.538.9300
> 27. mailto:][35][36]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 28. [36][37]http://Caryn.An/
> 29. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
> 30. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
> 31. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
> 32. mailto:][37][38]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 33. mailto:][38][39]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 34. mailto:][39][40]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 35. mailto:]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 36. [40][41]http://Caryn.An/
> 37. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
> 38. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
> 39. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
> 40. mailto::[41][42]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 41. mailto::[42][43]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 42. mailto::[43][44]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 43. mailto::[44][45]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 44. mailto::[45][46]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 45. mailto::[46][47]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 46. mailto::[47][48]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 47. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 48. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> References
> 1. mailto:[49]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. mailto:[50]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. mailto:[51]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. mailto:[52]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 5. mailto:[53]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 6. mailto:[54]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 7. mailto:[55]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 8. mailto:[56]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 9. mailto:[57]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 10. mailto:[58]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 11. mailto:[59]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 12. mailto:[60]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 13. mailto:[61]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 14. mailto:[62]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 15. mailto:[63]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 16. mailto:[64]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 17. mailto:[65]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 18. mailto:[66]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 19. mailto:[67]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 20. mailto:[68]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 21. mailto:[69]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 22. mailto:[70]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 23. mailto:[71]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 24. mailto:[72]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 25. mailto:[73]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 26. mailto:[74]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 27. [75]http://Caryn.An/
> 28. mailto:[76]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 29. mailto:[77]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 30. mailto:[78]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 31. [79]http://Caryn.An/
> 32. mailto:[80]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 33. mailto:[81]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 34. mailto:[82]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 35. mailto:[83]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 36. [84]http://Caryn.An/
> 37. mailto:[85]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 38. mailto:[86]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 39. mailto:[87]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 40. [88]http://Caryn.An/
> 41. mailto:[89]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 42. mailto:[90]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 43. mailto:[91]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 44. mailto:[92]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 45. mailto:[93]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 46. mailto:[94]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 47. mailto:[95]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>
> --
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> - [96]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 5. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 6. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 7. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 8. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 9. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 10. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 12. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 13. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 14. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 15. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 16. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 17. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 18. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 19. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 20. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 21. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 22. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 23. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 24. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 25. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 26. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 27. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 28. http://Caryn.An/
> 29. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 30. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 31. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 32. http://Caryn.An/
> 33. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 34. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 35. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 36. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 37. http://Caryn.An/
> 38. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 39. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 40. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 41. http://Caryn.An/
> 42. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 43. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 44. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 45. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 46. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 47. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 48. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 49. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 50. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 51. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 52. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 53. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 54. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 55. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 56. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 57. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 58. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 59. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 60. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 61. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 62. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 63. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 64. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 65. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 66. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 67. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 68. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 69. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 70. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 71. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 72. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 73. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 74. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 75. http://Caryn.An/
> 76. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 77. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 78. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 79. http://Caryn.An/
> 80. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 81. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 82. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 83. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 84. http://Caryn.An/
> 85. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 86. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 87. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 88. http://Caryn.An/
> 89. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 90. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 91. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 92. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 93. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 94. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 95. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 96. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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