[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors for Resolution to Re-Affirm The LP's Stance For Property Rights

Elizabeth Van Horn elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
Tue Aug 14 19:16:23 EDT 2018


Anyone can point to the LP platform and show what support.




---
Elizabeth Van Horn

On 2018-08-14 18:45, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> Exactly.
> 
>    I mean - is this policy part of our diversity?
>    [cid:1653a9dd1c7d299af1d1]
> 
>    On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 4:36 PM Justin O'Donnell via Lnc-business
>    <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> 
>      How can we promote practical solutions to our ideological platform
>      if we
>      can't even agree on the fundamentals of our ideological platform?
>      ---
>      Yours in Liberty,
>      Justin O'Donnell
>      LNC Region 8 Representative
>      LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
>      Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
>      Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
>      [2]www.odonnell2018.org
>      On 2018-08-14 18:34, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
>      > Jeff, thank you!  Well said.  You've articulated the position of
>      the
>      > caucus I belong to.
>      > -------------------
>      > We even say:
>      >
>      > "We celebrate our ideological diversity.
>      >
>      > AS LIBERTARIANS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO AGREE ON EVERYTHING - AND
>      THAT'S
>      > OK!
>      > What we can agree on:
>      >
>      > We need to elect Libertarians to state and local public office.
>      > We need to promote practical solutions to our ideological
>      platform."
>      > -----------------
>      >
>      > Cheers,
>      > EVH
>      > ---
>      > Elizabeth Van Horn
>      >
>      >
>      > On 2018-08-14 18:07, Jeff Lyons wrote:
>      >> Good Afternoon,
>      >>
>      >>      There are a bunch of different threads on this whole
>      property
>      >> rights vs. libsoc thing. I don't get where these discussions 
> are
>      >> going, I'm not going to go through it and as an Alternate my 
> vote
>      >> won't decide anything anyways.  I just think this is a 
> completely
>      >> fruitless effort, a waste of time, and of brainpower.
>      >>
>      >>      Some Libertarians have good ideas, some have bad ideas.  
> The
>      >> answer is MORE speech, more dialogue, more ideas, and the good
>      ideas
>      >> will always win eventually.  People are smart enough to decide
>      for
>      >> themselves if socialism can be voluntary or if property should 
> be
>      >> personally / privately owned.  Let them debate it all they 
> want.
>      I
>      >> don't think anyone who can't make a serious case for whatever
>      their
>      >> ideology is will last long before they learn something new and
>      >> inevitably evolve their position.  Libertarians don't have to
>      agree on
>      >> everything and I don't think we should bother trying to force
>      them to
>      >> get along.  The people will figure it out on their own, through
>      their
>      >> discussions.
>      >>
>      >>      I respectfully disagree there is even a need for US to 
> have
>      this
>      >> discussion and vote no on whatever the resolution is because I
>      don't
>      >> think we really need one. At all. Ever.  That's not our job.
>      >>
>      >> --
>      >> In Liberty,
>      >> Jeff Lyons
>      >>
>      >> Region 8 Alternate
>      >> (Acting Region 8 Rep)
>      >>
>      >> Libertarian Assoc. of MA
>      >> Membership Director
>      >> [3]http://www.lpmass.org/join
>      >>
>      >> Daniel Fishman for Auditor
>      >> Campaign Manager
>      >> [4]http://www.AuditMassachusetts.com
>      >>
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> On 2018-08-14 15:37, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
>      >>> BS.
>      >>>    (all about brevity ; )
>      >>>
>      >>>    ---
>      >>>    Elizabeth Van Horn
>      >>>
>      >>>    On 2018-08-14 15:34, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>      >>>
>      >>>    The brevity caucus keeps the exegesis of our Platform out.
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>>    It becomes necessary to apply and explicate.
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>>    -Caryn Ann
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>>
>      >>>    On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:29 PM Elizabeth Van Horn via
>      >>> Lnc-business
>      >>>    <[1][5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>      >>>
>      >>>      Then why not a resolution saying that the LNC stands in
>      support
>      >>> of
>      >>>      our
>      >>>      LP platform?  Because, I think it's pretty obvious that 
> we
>      do.
>      >>>      (Although, I know that the Radical caucus, Mises caucus,
>      and
>      >>>      libsocs,
>      >>>      all have their *own* platforms.  I support our LP 
> platform,
>      and
>      >>>      that's a
>      >>>      founding point of the caucus I'm in, that we don't have a
>      >>> separate
>      >>>      platform, we instead embrace the LP platform.
>      >>>      Do all the board members in various caucuses want to come
>      out in
>      >>>      favor
>      >>>      of the *LP Platform*?  I like to see that resolution.
>      >>>      ---
>      >>>      Elizabeth Van Horn
>      >>>      On 2018-08-14 15:07, Justin O'Donnell via Lnc-business
>      wrote:
>      >>>      > This resolution is an affirmation of that platform and
>      it's
>      >>>      underlying
>      >>>      > principles. It serves simply to acknowledge rhetoric
>      contrary
>      >>> to
>      >>>      our
>      >>>      > platform and affirm that the Libertarian Party stands 
> by
>      the
>      >>>      messaging
>      >>>      > and platform adopted by it's delegates in convention, 
> as
>      >>> opposed
>      >>>      to
>      >>>      > those who would argue otherwise. It does not purge
>      anyone, but
>      >>>      simply
>      >>>      > distances the LP from their economic views. They are
>      members,
>      >>> and
>      >>>      many
>      >>>      > will remain so, but the resolution is to affirm that
>      their
>      >>>      outspoken
>      >>>      > beliefs do not represent the party as a whole. Some of
>      these
>      >>>      > individual members are even candidates in profiled 
> races,
>      >>> where
>      >>>      they
>      >>>      > are espousing ideas contrary to our platform, and it is
>      >>> incumbent
>      >>>      upon
>      >>>      > this body to recognize that this is a risk to the
>      integrity of
>      >>> our
>      >>>      > messaging. An individual or a candidate may proclaim
>      whatever
>      >>>      platform
>      >>>      > they wish, but when they claim that it is 
> representative
>      of
>      >>>      > Libertarian Ideology when it is clearly contrary to our
>      >>> platform
>      >>>      and
>      >>>      > statement of principles, it requires an acknowledgement
>      from
>      >>> the
>      >>>      LNC.
>      >>>      >
>      >>>      > ---
>      >>>      > Yours in Liberty,
>      >>>      >
>      >>>      > Justin O'Donnell
>      >>>      > LNC Region 8 Representative
>      >>>      > LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
>      >>>      > Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
>      >>>      > Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
>      >>>      > [2][6]www.odonnell2018.org
>      >>>      >
>      >>>      > On 2018-08-14 15:01, Elizabeth Van Horn via 
> Lnc-business
>      >>> wrote:
>      >>>      >> We have a platform that states what we stand for, and
>      you
>      >>> were
>      >>>      the
>      >>>      >>    platform committee chair for 2018.  I was on that
>      >>> committee,
>      >>>      as
>      >>>      >> were
>      >>>      >>    several other members of this board.
>      >>>      >>    Did we not do our duty?  Did we leave the platform 
> to
>      be
>      >>>      ambiguous
>      >>>      >> and
>      >>>      >>    confusing?  I don't think so.
>      >>>      >>    Our wonderful LP platform speaks for the LP, and
>      tells
>      >>>      prospective
>      >>>      >>    members where we stand.   We educate from that
>      document,
>      >>> and I
>      >>>      know
>      >>>      >>    that you understand this, as you were instrumental 
> in
>      >>> doing
>      >>>      >> platform
>      >>>      >>    plank posts on social media.  You know that the
>      platform
>      >>>      speaks for
>      >>>      >> us
>      >>>      >>    on issues of property rights.
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>    ---
>      >>>      >>    Elizabeth Van Horn
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>    On 2018-08-14 14:55, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>    It is quite problematic that stating the Party's
>      >>> foundational
>      >>>      >>    Principles is controversial or thought to need a
>      platform
>      >>>      change.
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>    We have gone far from our roots.
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>    -Caryn Ann
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>    On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 12:51 PM Elizabeth Van Horn
>      via
>      >>>      >> Lnc-business
>      >>>      >>    <[1][3][7]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>      I also would have supported the first effort 
> (with
>      my
>      >>>      language
>      >>>      >>      changes)
>      >>>      >>      as it was a clear support of capitalism.  Too bad
>      that
>      >>>      wasn't
>      >>>      >>      embraced.
>      >>>      >>      On this list I've seen multiple times someone 
> talk
>      about
>      >>>      past
>      >>>      >>      actions as
>      >>>      >>      a reason, (we denounced that, so why not this?) 
> the
>      more
>      >>>      times I
>      >>>      >>      see,
>      >>>      >>      the more this looks like a grudge match.
>      >>>      >>      As the players in this drama, and yes it's a big
>      drama
>      >>> on
>      >>>      social
>      >>>      >>      media,
>      >>>      >>      are ones that have had an ongoing war-of-words 
> with
>      the
>      >>>      targets
>      >>>      >> of
>      >>>      >>      this
>      >>>      >>      suggested resolution.  Only, some of the players
>      also
>      >>> happen
>      >>>      to
>      >>>      >> be
>      >>>      >>      on
>      >>>      >>      the LNC, and are now using that position to
>      escalate.
>      >>>      >>      I was willing to support a resolution that 
> embraced
>      >>>      capitalism,
>      >>>      >> as I
>      >>>      >>      live my life as a capitalist. It is my economic
>      system
>      >>> of
>      >>>      choice,
>      >>>      >>      and I
>      >>>      >>      make an effort to teach this to others.
>      >>>      >>      Too bad this isn't about championing the 
> wonderful
>      >>> economic
>      >>>      >> system
>      >>>      >>      of
>      >>>      >>      capitalism, but instead is about targeting a few
>      noisy
>      >>> LP
>      >>>      >> members.
>      >>>      >>      ---
>      >>>      >>      Elizabeth Van Horn
>      >>>      >>      On 2018-08-14 14:26, john.phillips--- via
>      Lnc-business
>      >>>      wrote:
>      >>>      >>      > This is not the same language as was presented
>      and
>      >>>      discussed
>      >>>      >>      earlier.
>      >>>      >>      >    Just to clarify for people who may just be
>      >>> skimming.
>      >>>      >>      >    I probably would have gone along with the
>      first.
>      >>> This
>      >>>      one
>      >>>      >> is
>      >>>      >>      toxic
>      >>>      >>      > and
>      >>>      >>      >    the language clearly meant to be be a purge.
>      >>>      >>      >    If it was just a supporting of property 
> rights
>      I
>      >>> would
>      >>>      >>      absolutely
>      >>>      >>      >    support it.  This is far more than that, and
>      >>> honestly
>      >>>      far
>      >>>      >>      exceeds
>      >>>      >>      > the
>      >>>      >>      >    scope of the duties of this body.  It is a
>      direct
>      >>>      change to
>      >>>      >>      policy
>      >>>      >>      >    seriously impacts current members and
>      activists.
>      >>>      >>      >    If you want a platform change take it to
>      Austin.
>      >>> That
>      >>>      is not
>      >>>      >>      our
>      >>>      >>      > job.
>      >>>      >>      >    I will be voting no on this, and urge 
> everyone
>      else
>      >>> to
>      >>>      >>      seriously
>      >>>      >>      >    consider whether they support a precedent of
>      >>> purging
>      >>>      groups.
>      >>>      >>      Not to
>      >>>      >>      >    mention how many of you during the JC
>      discussion
>      >>> were
>      >>>      >> treading
>      >>>      >>      very
>      >>>      >>      >    carefully about not exceeding our scope, a
>      point
>      >>> that
>      >>>      was
>      >>>      >> well
>      >>>      >>      taken
>      >>>      >>      >    after reflection, will you be consistent 
> here?
>      >>>      >>      >    John Phillips
>      >>>      >>      >    Libertarian National Committee Region 6
>      >>> Representative
>      >>>      >>      >    Cell [1]217-412-5973
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      >    ------ Original message------
>      >>>      >>      >    From: Steven Nekhaila via Lnc-business
>      >>>      >>      >    Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2018 10:50 AM
>      >>>      >>      >    To: LNC-Business List;
>      >>>      >>      >    Cc: Steven Nekhaila;
>      >>>      >>      >    Subject:[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors 
> for
>      >>>      Resolution to
>      >>>      >>      > Re-Affirm
>      >>>      >>      >    The LP's Stance For Property Rights
>      >>>      >>      > Dear Colleagues,
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > I invite you to co-sponsor the following
>      resolution
>      >>> which
>      >>>      >> disavows
>      >>>      >>      > socialist & communist policies and re-affirms 
> the
>      >>>      Libertarian
>      >>>      >>      Party
>      >>>      >>      > position on championing property rights.
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > Co-Sponsors: Joshua Smith, Justin O'Donnel, and
>      Caryn
>      >>> Ann
>      >>>      >> Harlos
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the 
> free
>      >>> market
>      >>>      and
>      >>>      >>      therefore
>      >>>      >>      > the right of privatization of property as an
>      extension
>      >>> of
>      >>>      the
>      >>>      >>      > individual;
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The
>      >>> Libertarian
>      >>>      Party
>      >>>      >>      > explicitly
>      >>>      >>      > supports the right to private property 
> ownership,
>      >>>      including the
>      >>>      >>      right
>      >>>      >>      > to
>      >>>      >>      > do business utilizing that property as capital;
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly 
> supports
>      the
>      >>>      rights of
>      >>>      >>      > individuals to own private property including
>      land,
>      >>>      structures,
>      >>>      >>      natural
>      >>>      >>      > resources and other private space through
>      >>> homesteading,
>      >>>      >> purchase,
>      >>>      >>      and
>      >>>      >>      > other lawful libertarian means;
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > WHEREAS, ownership of private property, 
> including
>      but
>      >>> not
>      >>>      >> limited
>      >>>      >>      to
>      >>>      >>      > land and housing, does not require continual or
>      >>> personal
>      >>>      use to
>      >>>      >>      exist
>      >>>      >>      > as
>      >>>      >>      > justly owned property unless otherwise 
> abandoned;
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles
>      of the
>      >>>      >> Libertarian
>      >>>      >>      > Party
>      >>>      >>      > since its inception;
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and
>      >>> communist
>      >>>      >> property
>      >>>      >>      > ownership schemes, including the 
> collectivization
>      of
>      >>>      property,
>      >>>      >>      unlawful
>      >>>      >>      > usurpation of property, and incorrect
>      >>> characterizations of
>      >>>      >> private
>      >>>      >>      > property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed 
> by
>      all
>      >>>      parties,
>      >>>      >> are
>      >>>      >>      > incompatible with the philosophy of the
>      Libertarian
>      >>> Party.
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > In Liberty,
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > Steven Nekhaila
>      >>>      >>      > Region 2 Representative
>      >>>      >>      > Libertarian National Committee
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt
>      >>>      >>      > "Those without power cannot defend freedom"
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      > References
>      >>>      >>      >
>      >>>      >>      >    1. tel:217-412-5973
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>      --
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>    --
>      >>>      >>    In Liberty,
>      >>>      >>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>      >>>      >>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National 
> Committee
>      >>> Secretary
>      >>>      >>    - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>      >>>      >>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
>      >>> LPedia at LP.org
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>      >>>      >>    We defend your rights
>      >>>      >>    And oppose the use of force
>      >>>      >>    Taxation is theft
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >> References
>      >>>      >>
>      >>>      >>    1. mailto:[4][8]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>      >>>      >>    2. mailto:[5]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>      >>>
>      >>>      --
>      >>>
>      >>>    --
>      >>>    In Liberty,
>      >>>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>      >>>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>      Secretary
>      >>>    - [6]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>      >>>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>      >>>
>      >>>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>      >>>    We defend your rights
>      >>>    And oppose the use of force
>      >>>    Taxation is theft
>      >>>
>      >>> References
>      >>>
>      >>>    1. mailto:[9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>      >>>    2. [10]http://www.odonnell2018.org/
>      >>>    3. mailto:[11]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>      >>>    4. mailto:[12]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>      >>>    5. mailto:[13]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>      >>>    6. mailto:[14]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 
>    --
> 
>    --
>    In Liberty,
>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>    - [15]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>    We defend your rights
>    And oppose the use of force
>    Taxation is theft
> 
> References
> 
>    1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    2. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
>    3. http://www.lpmass.org/join
>    4. http://www.AuditMassachusetts.com/
>    5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    6. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
>    7. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    8. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>   10. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
>   11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>   12. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>   13. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>   14. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>   15. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org



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