[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors for Resolution to Re-Affirm The LP's Stance For Property Rights
Elizabeth Van Horn
elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
Tue Aug 14 19:16:23 EDT 2018
Anyone can point to the LP platform and show what support.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On 2018-08-14 18:45, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> Exactly.
>
> I mean - is this policy part of our diversity?
> [cid:1653a9dd1c7d299af1d1]
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 4:36 PM Justin O'Donnell via Lnc-business
> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> How can we promote practical solutions to our ideological platform
> if we
> can't even agree on the fundamentals of our ideological platform?
> ---
> Yours in Liberty,
> Justin O'Donnell
> LNC Region 8 Representative
> LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
> Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
> Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
> [2]www.odonnell2018.org
> On 2018-08-14 18:34, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
> > Jeff, thank you! Well said. You've articulated the position of
> the
> > caucus I belong to.
> > -------------------
> > We even say:
> >
> > "We celebrate our ideological diversity.
> >
> > AS LIBERTARIANS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO AGREE ON EVERYTHING - AND
> THAT'S
> > OK!
> > What we can agree on:
> >
> > We need to elect Libertarians to state and local public office.
> > We need to promote practical solutions to our ideological
> platform."
> > -----------------
> >
> > Cheers,
> > EVH
> > ---
> > Elizabeth Van Horn
> >
> >
> > On 2018-08-14 18:07, Jeff Lyons wrote:
> >> Good Afternoon,
> >>
> >> There are a bunch of different threads on this whole
> property
> >> rights vs. libsoc thing. I don't get where these discussions
> are
> >> going, I'm not going to go through it and as an Alternate my
> vote
> >> won't decide anything anyways. I just think this is a
> completely
> >> fruitless effort, a waste of time, and of brainpower.
> >>
> >> Some Libertarians have good ideas, some have bad ideas.
> The
> >> answer is MORE speech, more dialogue, more ideas, and the good
> ideas
> >> will always win eventually. People are smart enough to decide
> for
> >> themselves if socialism can be voluntary or if property should
> be
> >> personally / privately owned. Let them debate it all they
> want.
> I
> >> don't think anyone who can't make a serious case for whatever
> their
> >> ideology is will last long before they learn something new and
> >> inevitably evolve their position. Libertarians don't have to
> agree on
> >> everything and I don't think we should bother trying to force
> them to
> >> get along. The people will figure it out on their own, through
> their
> >> discussions.
> >>
> >> I respectfully disagree there is even a need for US to
> have
> this
> >> discussion and vote no on whatever the resolution is because I
> don't
> >> think we really need one. At all. Ever. That's not our job.
> >>
> >> --
> >> In Liberty,
> >> Jeff Lyons
> >>
> >> Region 8 Alternate
> >> (Acting Region 8 Rep)
> >>
> >> Libertarian Assoc. of MA
> >> Membership Director
> >> [3]http://www.lpmass.org/join
> >>
> >> Daniel Fishman for Auditor
> >> Campaign Manager
> >> [4]http://www.AuditMassachusetts.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2018-08-14 15:37, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
> >>> BS.
> >>> (all about brevity ; )
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> Elizabeth Van Horn
> >>>
> >>> On 2018-08-14 15:34, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The brevity caucus keeps the exegesis of our Platform out.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It becomes necessary to apply and explicate.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Caryn Ann
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:29 PM Elizabeth Van Horn via
> >>> Lnc-business
> >>> <[1][5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Then why not a resolution saying that the LNC stands in
> support
> >>> of
> >>> our
> >>> LP platform? Because, I think it's pretty obvious that
> we
> do.
> >>> (Although, I know that the Radical caucus, Mises caucus,
> and
> >>> libsocs,
> >>> all have their *own* platforms. I support our LP
> platform,
> and
> >>> that's a
> >>> founding point of the caucus I'm in, that we don't have a
> >>> separate
> >>> platform, we instead embrace the LP platform.
> >>> Do all the board members in various caucuses want to come
> out in
> >>> favor
> >>> of the *LP Platform*? I like to see that resolution.
> >>> ---
> >>> Elizabeth Van Horn
> >>> On 2018-08-14 15:07, Justin O'Donnell via Lnc-business
> wrote:
> >>> > This resolution is an affirmation of that platform and
> it's
> >>> underlying
> >>> > principles. It serves simply to acknowledge rhetoric
> contrary
> >>> to
> >>> our
> >>> > platform and affirm that the Libertarian Party stands
> by
> the
> >>> messaging
> >>> > and platform adopted by it's delegates in convention,
> as
> >>> opposed
> >>> to
> >>> > those who would argue otherwise. It does not purge
> anyone, but
> >>> simply
> >>> > distances the LP from their economic views. They are
> members,
> >>> and
> >>> many
> >>> > will remain so, but the resolution is to affirm that
> their
> >>> outspoken
> >>> > beliefs do not represent the party as a whole. Some of
> these
> >>> > individual members are even candidates in profiled
> races,
> >>> where
> >>> they
> >>> > are espousing ideas contrary to our platform, and it is
> >>> incumbent
> >>> upon
> >>> > this body to recognize that this is a risk to the
> integrity of
> >>> our
> >>> > messaging. An individual or a candidate may proclaim
> whatever
> >>> platform
> >>> > they wish, but when they claim that it is
> representative
> of
> >>> > Libertarian Ideology when it is clearly contrary to our
> >>> platform
> >>> and
> >>> > statement of principles, it requires an acknowledgement
> from
> >>> the
> >>> LNC.
> >>> >
> >>> > ---
> >>> > Yours in Liberty,
> >>> >
> >>> > Justin O'Donnell
> >>> > LNC Region 8 Representative
> >>> > LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
> >>> > Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
> >>> > Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
> >>> > [2][6]www.odonnell2018.org
> >>> >
> >>> > On 2018-08-14 15:01, Elizabeth Van Horn via
> Lnc-business
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >> We have a platform that states what we stand for, and
> you
> >>> were
> >>> the
> >>> >> platform committee chair for 2018. I was on that
> >>> committee,
> >>> as
> >>> >> were
> >>> >> several other members of this board.
> >>> >> Did we not do our duty? Did we leave the platform
> to
> be
> >>> ambiguous
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> confusing? I don't think so.
> >>> >> Our wonderful LP platform speaks for the LP, and
> tells
> >>> prospective
> >>> >> members where we stand. We educate from that
> document,
> >>> and I
> >>> know
> >>> >> that you understand this, as you were instrumental
> in
> >>> doing
> >>> >> platform
> >>> >> plank posts on social media. You know that the
> platform
> >>> speaks for
> >>> >> us
> >>> >> on issues of property rights.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> ---
> >>> >> Elizabeth Van Horn
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On 2018-08-14 14:55, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> It is quite problematic that stating the Party's
> >>> foundational
> >>> >> Principles is controversial or thought to need a
> platform
> >>> change.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> We have gone far from our roots.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> -Caryn Ann
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 12:51 PM Elizabeth Van Horn
> via
> >>> >> Lnc-business
> >>> >> <[1][3][7]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I also would have supported the first effort
> (with
> my
> >>> language
> >>> >> changes)
> >>> >> as it was a clear support of capitalism. Too bad
> that
> >>> wasn't
> >>> >> embraced.
> >>> >> On this list I've seen multiple times someone
> talk
> about
> >>> past
> >>> >> actions as
> >>> >> a reason, (we denounced that, so why not this?)
> the
> more
> >>> times I
> >>> >> see,
> >>> >> the more this looks like a grudge match.
> >>> >> As the players in this drama, and yes it's a big
> drama
> >>> on
> >>> social
> >>> >> media,
> >>> >> are ones that have had an ongoing war-of-words
> with
> the
> >>> targets
> >>> >> of
> >>> >> this
> >>> >> suggested resolution. Only, some of the players
> also
> >>> happen
> >>> to
> >>> >> be
> >>> >> on
> >>> >> the LNC, and are now using that position to
> escalate.
> >>> >> I was willing to support a resolution that
> embraced
> >>> capitalism,
> >>> >> as I
> >>> >> live my life as a capitalist. It is my economic
> system
> >>> of
> >>> choice,
> >>> >> and I
> >>> >> make an effort to teach this to others.
> >>> >> Too bad this isn't about championing the
> wonderful
> >>> economic
> >>> >> system
> >>> >> of
> >>> >> capitalism, but instead is about targeting a few
> noisy
> >>> LP
> >>> >> members.
> >>> >> ---
> >>> >> Elizabeth Van Horn
> >>> >> On 2018-08-14 14:26, john.phillips--- via
> Lnc-business
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >> > This is not the same language as was presented
> and
> >>> discussed
> >>> >> earlier.
> >>> >> > Just to clarify for people who may just be
> >>> skimming.
> >>> >> > I probably would have gone along with the
> first.
> >>> This
> >>> one
> >>> >> is
> >>> >> toxic
> >>> >> > and
> >>> >> > the language clearly meant to be be a purge.
> >>> >> > If it was just a supporting of property
> rights
> I
> >>> would
> >>> >> absolutely
> >>> >> > support it. This is far more than that, and
> >>> honestly
> >>> far
> >>> >> exceeds
> >>> >> > the
> >>> >> > scope of the duties of this body. It is a
> direct
> >>> change to
> >>> >> policy
> >>> >> > seriously impacts current members and
> activists.
> >>> >> > If you want a platform change take it to
> Austin.
> >>> That
> >>> is not
> >>> >> our
> >>> >> > job.
> >>> >> > I will be voting no on this, and urge
> everyone
> else
> >>> to
> >>> >> seriously
> >>> >> > consider whether they support a precedent of
> >>> purging
> >>> groups.
> >>> >> Not to
> >>> >> > mention how many of you during the JC
> discussion
> >>> were
> >>> >> treading
> >>> >> very
> >>> >> > carefully about not exceeding our scope, a
> point
> >>> that
> >>> was
> >>> >> well
> >>> >> taken
> >>> >> > after reflection, will you be consistent
> here?
> >>> >> > John Phillips
> >>> >> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6
> >>> Representative
> >>> >> > Cell [1]217-412-5973
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > ------ Original message------
> >>> >> > From: Steven Nekhaila via Lnc-business
> >>> >> > Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2018 10:50 AM
> >>> >> > To: LNC-Business List;
> >>> >> > Cc: Steven Nekhaila;
> >>> >> > Subject:[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors
> for
> >>> Resolution to
> >>> >> > Re-Affirm
> >>> >> > The LP's Stance For Property Rights
> >>> >> > Dear Colleagues,
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > I invite you to co-sponsor the following
> resolution
> >>> which
> >>> >> disavows
> >>> >> > socialist & communist policies and re-affirms
> the
> >>> Libertarian
> >>> >> Party
> >>> >> > position on championing property rights.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Co-Sponsors: Joshua Smith, Justin O'Donnel, and
> Caryn
> >>> Ann
> >>> >> Harlos
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the
> free
> >>> market
> >>> and
> >>> >> therefore
> >>> >> > the right of privatization of property as an
> extension
> >>> of
> >>> the
> >>> >> > individual;
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The
> >>> Libertarian
> >>> Party
> >>> >> > explicitly
> >>> >> > supports the right to private property
> ownership,
> >>> including the
> >>> >> right
> >>> >> > to
> >>> >> > do business utilizing that property as capital;
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly
> supports
> the
> >>> rights of
> >>> >> > individuals to own private property including
> land,
> >>> structures,
> >>> >> natural
> >>> >> > resources and other private space through
> >>> homesteading,
> >>> >> purchase,
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> > other lawful libertarian means;
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > WHEREAS, ownership of private property,
> including
> but
> >>> not
> >>> >> limited
> >>> >> to
> >>> >> > land and housing, does not require continual or
> >>> personal
> >>> use to
> >>> >> exist
> >>> >> > as
> >>> >> > justly owned property unless otherwise
> abandoned;
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles
> of the
> >>> >> Libertarian
> >>> >> > Party
> >>> >> > since its inception;
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and
> >>> communist
> >>> >> property
> >>> >> > ownership schemes, including the
> collectivization
> of
> >>> property,
> >>> >> unlawful
> >>> >> > usurpation of property, and incorrect
> >>> characterizations of
> >>> >> private
> >>> >> > property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed
> by
> all
> >>> parties,
> >>> >> are
> >>> >> > incompatible with the philosophy of the
> Libertarian
> >>> Party.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > In Liberty,
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Steven Nekhaila
> >>> >> > Region 2 Representative
> >>> >> > Libertarian National Committee
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt
> >>> >> > "Those without power cannot defend freedom"
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > References
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > 1. tel:217-412-5973
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> In Liberty,
> >>> >> Caryn Ann Harlos
> >>> >> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National
> Committee
> >>> Secretary
> >>> >> - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >>> >> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
> >>> LPedia at LP.org
> >>> >>
> >>> >> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> >>> >> We defend your rights
> >>> >> And oppose the use of force
> >>> >> Taxation is theft
> >>> >>
> >>> >> References
> >>> >>
> >>> >> 1. mailto:[4][8]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >>> >> 2. mailto:[5]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> In Liberty,
> >>> Caryn Ann Harlos
> >>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary
> >>> - [6]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >>>
> >>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> >>> We defend your rights
> >>> And oppose the use of force
> >>> Taxation is theft
> >>>
> >>> References
> >>>
> >>> 1. mailto:[9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >>> 2. [10]http://www.odonnell2018.org/
> >>> 3. mailto:[11]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >>> 4. mailto:[12]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >>> 5. mailto:[13]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >>> 6. mailto:[14]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
> --
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> - [15]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
> 3. http://www.lpmass.org/join
> 4. http://www.AuditMassachusetts.com/
> 5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 6. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
> 7. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 8. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 10. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
> 11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 12. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 13. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 14. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 15. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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