[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-22: PROPERTY RIGHTS RESOLUTION
john.phillips at lp.org
john.phillips at lp.org
Wed Aug 15 15:52:24 EDT 2018
I agree with everything you said, but just to satisfy the "muh rules" crowd, you might want to put your vote in its own email. Or at least at the beginning.
John Phillips
Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
Cell 217-412-5973
------ Original message------From: Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2018 2:46 PMTo: lnc-business at hq.lp.org;Cc: Elizabeth Van Horn;Caryn Ann Harlos;Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-22: PROPERTY RIGHTS RESOLUTION
Why isn't capitalism included along with socialism and communism?
If: We believe that: "....unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all
parties, are
> incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian Party."
Then it doesn't matter what economic system it is. We don't believe in
*forcing* people into submission. That stands true for ALL economic
systems. Currently, we live in a semi-capitalistic economic system. We
aspire to the true free-market, but don't have it.
IF: We don't believe in the "unlawful
> usurpation of property,.."
Whose laws? Laws come from the state. Yet, we have anarchists in the
LP who assert that the state has no right to enact laws without the
voluntary agreement of ALL people. So, are property laws taking into
consideration the agreement of *all* people? No, of course not.
Because, not all people agree, nor wish to have those laws. (Mind you,
I believe in the right of owning property, but I *don't* believe in
forcing my beliefs onto others.)
IF: We believe in the rights of individuals...
Then, why would be disavow the right to, "incorrect characterizations of
private property,.." ? People have a right to incorrectly characterize
ideas. Are we now saying that people have no right to thoughts and
speech with which we disagree? It doesn't matter if, "unless otherwise
voluntarily agreed by all parties", when it comes to free speech rights.
That's the whole point of free speech! Since when is free speech,
"incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian Party."? Who
decides what is an "incorrect characterization"? If freely agreed upon
by a group, then it doesn't matter what characterization one makes.
What has caused the sponsors of this resolution to single out two
economic systems that a handful of noisy LP members support? If our LP
platform already spells out our values, then we point to the platform.
But, this resolution isn't about just support of our platform, which was
confirmed by delegates at our 2018 national convention in July. This is
about acknowledging that a few noisy people within the LP have irked and
scared some other members. They're so scared that the free market of
ideas might not have their ideas come out on top. So, out of fear, they
wish to use an LNC Top-Down Resolution, to give a smack-down to the tiny
rabble that dare to challenge their ideas.
It's too bad that the original suggested resolution, which championed
capitalism and I was willing to co-sponsor after tweaking the language,
was rejected in favor of this poorly worded one.
I vote: NO
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On 2018-08-15 05:56, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>
> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by July 22, 2018 at
> 11:59:59pm
> Pacific time.
>
> Co-Sponsors: Caryn Ann Harlos, Richard Longstreth, Steven Nekhaila,
> Justin O’Donnell, Joshua Smith
>
> Motion: Move to adopt the following resolution:
>
> WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the free market and
> therefore
> the right of privatization of property as an extension of the
> individual;
>
> WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The Libertarian Party
> explicitly supports the right to private property ownership,
> including
> the right to do business utilizing that property as capital;
>
> WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly supports the rights of
> individuals to own private property including land, structures,
> natural
> resources and other private space through homesteading, purchase,
> and
> other lawful libertarian means;
>
> WHEREAS, ownership of private property, including but not limited to
> land and housing, does not require continual or personal use to
> exist
> as justly owned property unless otherwise abandoned;
>
> WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles of the Libertarian
> Party since its inception;
>
> THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and communist property
> ownership schemes, including the collectivization of property,
> unlawful
> usurpation of property, and incorrect characterizations of private
> property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all parties, are
> incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian Party.
>
> =============================================
>
> Important Bylaws note:
>
> Resolutions require passage by 3/4 vote as follows:
>
> Article 7:
>
> ***
>
> The National Committee may adopt public policy resolutions by a ¾
> vote
> with previous notice or by unanimous consent without previous
> notice.
>
> =============================================
>
> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:
> [1]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting. Votes are noted with a link to
> the
> actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the
> manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.
>
> Please notify me of any discrepancies.
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
> [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 2. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
-------------- next part --------------
I agree with everything you said, but just to satisfy the "muh rules"
crowd, you might want to put your vote in its own email. Or at least at
the beginning.
John Phillips
Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
Cell [1]217-412-5973
------ Original message------
From: Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2018 2:46 PM
To: [2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
Cc: Elizabeth Van Horn;Caryn Ann Harlos;
Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-22: PROPERTY RIGHTS
RESOLUTION
Why isn't capitalism included along with socialism and communism?
If: We believe that: "....unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all
parties, are
> incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian Party."
Then it doesn't matter what economic system it is. We don't believe in
*forcing* people into submission. That stands true for ALL economic
systems. Currently, we live in a semi-capitalistic economic system. We
aspire to the true free-market, but don't have it.
IF: We don't believe in the "unlawful
> usurpation of property,.."
Whose laws? Laws come from the state. Yet, we have anarchists in the
LP who assert that the state has no right to enact laws without the
voluntary agreement of ALL people. So, are property laws taking into
consideration the agreement of *all* people? No, of course not.
Because, not all people agree, nor wish to have those laws. (Mind you,
I believe in the right of owning property, but I *don't* believe in
forcing my beliefs onto others.)
IF: We believe in the rights of individuals...
Then, why would be disavow the right to, "incorrect characterizations of
private property,.." ? People have a right to incorrectly characterize
ideas. Are we now saying that people have no right to thoughts and
speech with which we disagree? It doesn't matter if, "unless otherwise
voluntarily agreed by all parties", when it comes to free speech rights.
That's the whole point of free speech! Since when is free speech,
"incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian Party."? Who
decides what is an "incorrect characterization"? If freely agreed upon
by a group, then it doesn't matter what characterization one makes.
What has caused the sponsors of this resolution to single out two
economic systems that a handful of noisy LP members support? If our LP
platform already spells out our values, then we point to the platform.
But, this resolution isn't about just support of our platform, which was
confirmed by delegates at our 2018 national convention in July. This is
about acknowledging that a few noisy people within the LP have irked and
scared some other members. They're so scared that the free market of
ideas might not have their ideas come out on top. So, out of fear, they
wish to use an LNC Top-Down Resolution, to give a smack-down to the tiny
rabble that dare to challenge their ideas.
It's too bad that the original suggested resolution, which championed
capitalism and I was willing to co-sponsor after tweaking the language,
was rejected in favor of this poorly worded one.
I vote: NO
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On [3]2018-08-15 05:56, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>
> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by July 22, 2018 at
> 11:59:59pm
> Pacific time.
>
> Co-Sponsors: Caryn Ann Harlos, Richard Longstreth, Steven Nekhaila,
> Justin O’Donnell, Joshua Smith
>
> Motion: Move to adopt the following resolution:
>
> WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the free market and
> therefore
> the right of privatization of property as an extension of the
> individual;
>
> WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The Libertarian Party
> explicitly supports the right to private property ownership,
> including
> the right to do business utilizing that property as capital;
>
> WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly supports the rights of
> individuals to own private property including land, structures,
> natural
> resources and other private space through homesteading, purchase,
> and
> other lawful libertarian means;
>
> WHEREAS, ownership of private property, including but not limited to
> land and housing, does not require continual or personal use to
> exist
> as justly owned property unless otherwise abandoned;
>
> WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles of the Libertarian
> Party since its inception;
>
> THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and communist property
> ownership schemes, including the collectivization of property,
> unlawful
> usurpation of property, and incorrect characterizations of private
> property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all parties, are
> incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian Party.
>
> =============================================
>
> Important Bylaws note:
>
> Resolutions require passage by 3/4 vote as follows:
>
> Article 7:
>
> ***
>
> The National Committee may adopt public policy resolutions by a ¾
> vote
> with previous notice or by unanimous consent without previous
> notice.
>
> =============================================
>
> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:
> [1][4]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting. Votes are noted with a link to
> the
> actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the
> manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.
>
> Please notify me of any discrepancies.
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
> [2][5]Caryn.Ann.[6] Harlos at LP.org or[7] Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[8] LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. [9]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> 2. mailto[10]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
References
1. tel:217-412-5973
2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. tel:2018-08-15 05
4. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting.
5. http://Caryn.An/
6. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
7. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
8. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
9. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
10. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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