[Lnc-business] BALLOT 190203-1 Immigration Resolution

Joe Bishop-Henchman joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
Mon Feb 11 17:00:21 EST 2019


I would certainly appreciate the clarification. I'm struck that we are 
both counting Mr. O'Donnell's abstention as a non-vote to reduce the 
threshold for passage but then also counting it as vote to not 
substitute in Mr. Lyons's vote. I could see doing both or neither but 
have trouble understanding doing one but not the other.

If the intent of our Region 8 colleagues was for Mr. O'Donnell to 
expressly let Mr. Lyons vote on this one, I'm guessing we would all 
benefit from knowing how to do that correctly.

JBH

------------
Joe Bishop-Henchman
LNC Member (At-Large)
joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837

On 2019-02-11 16:38, Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business wrote:
> I will apologize for my ignorance on Robert's Rules, and whatever the
> clarification is as a result of the Point of Order, Mr. O'Donnell and
> I will take care to abide in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as sharing emails, which I am assuming you are referring to
> when I shared the Resolution, along with only Mr. O'Donnells and my
> response with our LNC Region 8 group- you are not Region 8.  This is
> not a confidential topic, and it is in fact publicly accessible to our
> members, is it not?  Regardless, we are free to share our responses
> and communicate with our constituents whom those responses are
> supposed to represent.  Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the Point of Order is already in motion, I guess we have to let
> it run its course, but I acknowledge that the mistake is ours (Mr.
> O'Donnell and I), and am willing to stand down.  Apologies for the
> rookie mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Liberty,
> 
> 
> Jeff Lyons
> 
> 
> LNC 8A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get Outlook for Android
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get Outlook for Android
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 4:16 PM -0500, "Caryn Ann Harlos"
> <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will alert the Chair that you raised a Point of Order
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 2:15 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
> <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> I can’t make rulings.  The proper procedure is to raise a point of
> order to the Chair.
> I will note this has been the LNC practice for the four years I’ve
> been observing.  Further, this is not what happens at meetings.  You
> do not see the Chair scanning the room to see if an alternate is
> present every time a regional objects.
> The purpose is for an alt to participate when a regional is not “at
> the table.”  By registering an abstention Mr. O’Donnel registered a
> “present” 
> I would also note that the notation was in my voting tally sheet for
> days to avoid issues like this and nothing was said.  Other people may
> have changed their votes or the Chair may have voted if the count was
> different - that is why I urge everyone to review during voting.
> I lastly submit that I think the sharing of the personal
> correspondence in bad taste.  I would not be happy if I found out my
> peers called my resolution “stupid” and I would remind everyone this
> was submitted by a member to whom we serve.  
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 12:20 PM Justin O'Donnell
> <justin.odonnell at lp.org> wrote:
> If need be for procedural reasons, I will move the appeal on Mr Lyons'
> 
> Behalf.
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Yours in Liberty,
> 
> 
> 
> Justin O'Donnell
> 
> LNC Region 8 Representative
> 
> Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
> 
> www.justinodonnell.me
> 
> 
> 
> Renew your membership today at https://www.lp.org/wethepeople/?f=jod !
> 
> 
> 
> On 2019-02-11 14:05, Jeff Lyons wrote:
> 
>> All,
> 
>> 
> 
>>       I would like to Appeal the Secretary's ruling and Raise a Point
> 
>> of Order.  Not because I want to override the near 3/4 support for
> 
>> this resolution, but because it was in fact Mr. O'Donnell's intention
> 
>> to not be counted, and allow me as alternate to express a more
> 
>> strongly held conviction in my vote casting (albeit only slightly),
> 
>> and I think this should fall under our Policy Manual:
> 
>> 
> 
>>   "Section 1.01 GENERAL DELEGATION OF AUTHORITY
> 
>> 
> 
>> 1) Participation by LNC Alternates at Meetings
> 
>> 
> 
>> Free substitution of Alternates for Regional Representatives at LNC
> 
>> meetings is permitted."
> 
>> 
> 
>>       Roberts Rules does not have much on the topic of alternates in
> 
>> the way we use them.  In my view, an Abstention on an Electronic Mail
> 
>> Ballot should automatically defer to the Alternate, because that is
> 
>> what alternates are for.
> 
>> 
> 
>> Thanks for your consideration, sorry for being a pain, but both LNC 8
> 
>> Reps were generally against this resolution and should ultimately be
> 
>> counted as such.
> 
>> 
> 
>> Very Respectfully,
> 
>> 
> 
>> Jeff Lyons
> 
>> 
> 
>> LNC 8A
> 
>> 
> 
>> Get Outlook for Android [1]
> 
>> 
> 
>> Get Outlook for Android [1]
> 
>> 
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 8:21 AM -0500, "Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business"
> 
>> <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
>>> Actually now that I see this takes 3/4 votes, and 14 * .75 = 10.5,
> 
>>> and the motion should then fail?
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> -Jeff Lyons
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> LNC 8A
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> Get Outlook for Android
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM -0500, "Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business"
> 
>>> wrote:
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> Mrs. Harlos,
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> It doesn't effect the result but Mr. O'Donnell abstained, and
> 
>>> as the alternate I voted No.
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> Thanks.
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> -Jeff Lyons
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> Get Outlook for Android
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 4:38 AM -0500, "Caryn Ann Harlos via
> 
>>> Lnc-business"  wrote:
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> Voting has ENDED for the email *BALLOT 190203-1 Immigration
> 
>>> Resolution*
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> All names are listed alphabetically by surname.
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *Motion:* Move to adopt the following resolution:
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party believes that the only proper role
> 
>>> of law
> 
>>> is in the protection of the natural rights of individuals from the
> 
>>> initiation of force or fraud; WHEREAS, no individual has a natural
> 
>>> right to
> 
>>> prohibit consensual visitation to or consensual habitation on the
> 
>>> private
> 
>>> property of another individual; WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party
> 
>>> believes
> 
>>> that eminent domain is a violation of private property rights;
> 
>>> WHEREAS, we
> 
>>> affirm the right of individuals to set whatever standards they wish
> 
>>> for
> 
>>> entry onto their own private property but not that owned by others;
> 
>>> WHEREAS, we believe that all individuals have the same natural
> 
>>> rights
> 
>>> regardless of their citizenship; WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party
> 
>>> holds that
> 
>>> any concerns related to the border, valid or otherwise, are better
> 
>>> addressed by removing the root causes of such concerns. Actions such
> 
>>> as
> 
>>> ending the War on Drugs, decriminalization of sex work, ending the
> 
>>> welfare
> 
>>> state, and allowing free trade would not only address those
> 
>>> concerns, but
> 
>>> do so in a budget positive way rather than costing billions;
> 
>>> WHEREAS, the
> 
>>> Libertarian Party acknowledges that economic freedom demands the
> 
>>> unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across
> 
>>> national
> 
>>> borders: NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Libertarian Party
> 
>>> condemns
> 
>>> and opposes efforts to build a governmental border wall, be it
> 
>>> through
> 
>>> congress or gross abuse of authority in an ill-founded declaration
> 
>>> of
> 
>>> emergency. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Libertarian Party
> 
>>> supports the
> 
>>> natural right of freedom of movement of all peaceful people, for any
> 
>>> reason, subject only to rights of other individuals to control their
> 
>>> own
> 
>>> privately owned property.*
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *Co-Sponsors: * Harlos, Longstreth, Merced, Phillips
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *Voting "aye":*  Bilyeu, Bishop-Henchman, Goldstein, Harlos, Hewitt,
> 
>>> Lark,
> 
>>> Longstreth, Merced, Phillips, Redpath
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *Voting "nay": *Mattson, Smith, Van Horn
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *Express Abstention:*  O''Donnell
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *No Vote Cast:* Hagan, Nekhaila/Lee, Sarwark
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> With a final vote tally of 10-3-1 the motion *PASSED.*
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *Note: * Secretary's Notes: Public policy resolutions require a 3/4
> 
>>> vote as
> 
>>> per Bylaw 7.11. There were thirteen votes cast (excluding the one
> 
>>> abstention) which would set the 3/4 threshold at 10. The "aye" votes
> 
>>> met
> 
>>> that threshold.
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> You can view the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:
> 
>>> https://tinyurl.com/lncvotes2019.  Votes are noted with a link to
> 
>>> the
> 
>>> actual ballot cast for verification.
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> Please notify me of any discrepancies.
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 11:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
> 
>>> wrote:
> 
>>> 
> 
>>>> Joshua is having email troubles and sent me a screenshot of his
> 
>>> email to
> 
>>>> record.  He has tried sending to the list and to me personally and
> 
>>> none
> 
>>>> have gotten through.  He votes no.  See attached.
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 6:16 PM Jeff Hewitt  wrote:
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>>> I vote Yes on the resolution. Jeff Hewitt Region 4 Rep
> 
>>>>> 
> 
>>>>> On 2019-02-10 07:36, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> 
>>>>>> Reminder on this ballot ending today.
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>> I do not record votes from Hagan, Hewitt/Olsen, Lark/Hogarth,
> 
>>>>>> Longstreth/Bowden, Nekhaila/Lee, Sarwark, Smith
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 5:32 AM Joe Bishop-Henchman <
> 
>>>>>> joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>>> I vote yes.
> 
>>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>> --
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>> *  In Liberty,*
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> 
>>> *-
> 
>>>>>> Caryn.Ann.
> 
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org  or Secretary at LP.org.
> 
>>>>>> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> 
>>>>>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> 
>>>>>> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>> 
> 
>>> 
> 
>> =========================================================================
> 
>>>>>> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> 
>>> Re-Legalize
> 
>>>>>> All
> 
>>>>>> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All
> 
>>> Gun Laws *
> 
>>>>>> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
> 
>>> Fed * End
> 
>>>>>> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
> 
>>> Income
> 
>>>>>> Tax
> 
>>>>>> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
> 
>>> Emergency
> 
>>>>>> Services
> 
>>>>>> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private
> 
>>> Sector *
> 
>>>>>> Eliminate Regulation *
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>>> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
> 
>>>>>> *
> 
>>>>>> 
> 
>>>>> 
> 
>>> 
> 
>> =========================================================================
> 
>>>>> 
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> --
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> *  In Liberty,*
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> 
>>> Caryn.Ann.
> 
>>>> Harlos at LP.org  or Secretary at LP.org.
> 
>>>> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> 
>>>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> 
>>>> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>> 
> 
>> =========================================================================
> 
>>>> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> 
>>> Re-Legalize All
> 
>>>> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
> 
>>> Laws *
> 
>>>> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed
> 
>>> * End
> 
>>>> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
> 
>>> Income Tax
> 
>>>> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> 
>>> Services
> 
>>>> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private
> 
>>> Sector *
> 
>>>> Eliminate Regulation *
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org *
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>> 
> 
>> =========================================================================
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>>> 
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> --
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *  In Liberty,*
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> 
>>> Caryn.Ann.
> 
>>> Harlos at LP.org  or Secretary at LP.org.
> 
>>> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> 
>>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> 
>>> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> 
> 
>> =========================================================================
> 
>>> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> 
>>> Re-Legalize All
> 
>>> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
> 
>>> Laws *
> 
>>> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed *
> 
>>> End
> 
>>> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
> 
>>> Income Tax
> 
>>> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> 
>>> Services
> 
>>> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector
> 
>>> *
> 
>>> Eliminate Regulation *
> 
>>> 
> 
>>> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org *
> 
>>> 
> 
>> =========================================================================
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> Links:
> 
>> ------
> 
>> [1] https://aka.ms/ghei36
> 
> --
> 
>   In Liberty,
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.Chair, LP
> Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
> at facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> =========================================================================Peaceful
> Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws
> * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed *
> End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
> Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
> Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
> The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation * 
> VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US
> or http://www.LP.org=========================================================================



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