[Lnc-business] DRAFT MINUTES LNC Meeting December 1-2, 2018 v4

Caryn Ann Harlos caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Wed Feb 13 01:42:45 EST 2019


I think you pointed out inadvertently what was not accurate - we have had a
practice of including such requests that did not originate with me, ie
Starchild (and often my) requests and the Legend of New Jersey Quarter.

I think any other back and forth will just annoy others so I’ve said what I
wish to.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 11:10 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> I am sure that some readers quickly get tired of back-and-forth, however I
> think I do need to respond to this because of the implication that I am
> mischaracterizing an off-list exchange.
>
> I wrote:
>
> "3)  I previously commented about the footnote which was then numbered 56,
> but is now numbered 54.  Previously it merely indicated that you voted
> “present” and it was “counted as” an abstention, and I commented that is a
> distinction without a difference.  After you inquired about it on an
> internet forum and were advised to not indulge the member requesting you to
> include the reason for their abstention in the minutes, version 4 has
> specifically added to the original phrasing an explanation that the
> abstention was a “protest” vote.  Now one person’s abstention is explained,
> though others’ votes/abstentions are not explained."
>
> CAH response:
>
> "On the last, that is not an entirely accurate account of the discussion on
> the RONR forum.  And in the past, when a member requested (Starchild often
> did) and at my request you included a winsome story about the New Jersey
> quarter, so I am not agreeing to that change.  I know not all other members
> feel we were out of line at that time, I do, and members of the gallery and
> Mr. Koerner expresses appreciation at my protest, thus it is significant
> and relevant."
>
> I think my comment was a fair summary of the account of the discussion on
> the RONR forum.  Though there was another side theme among some who thought
> your question was whether a secretary is obligated to record the verbatim
> words that one used to abstain even if they recited the Pledge of
> Allegiance, or whether the secretary ignores the vocabulary and merely
> categorizes it as an abstention just like the other abstentions -- of the
> comments that directly answered the question of whether it was proper for
> the minutes to say it was a "protest" abstention went like this:
>
> 1) Not really.
> 2) It would not be proper to note in the minutes that the non-vote was an
> act of protest.
> 3) Minutes should be minimalist:  "what was done, not what was said"  Put
> the other (entirely valuable, to be sure) stuff in a newsletter.
> 4) I would strongly suggest that you not indulge her. Record her
> abstention.
>
> The closest thing to support for the idea was not very supportive:  "Well,
> it's up to the assembly what to include.  RONR does not allow
> "explanations" to accompany voting. If you have a conflicting custom, and
> nobody objects, well, you'll have to live with the results."
>
> Which of those pieces of advice suggested that the footnote be updated to
> add that the reason for abstaining was a desire to protest?  I don't agree
> that my characterization was inaccurate.
>
> I also don't believe that I did indulge Starchild's many requests for
> special notes in the minutes.  I have a vague recollection of one instance
> in which there was some informal-procedure agreement made for something
> which would overcome his objection, or some such, so I put that in the
> minutes because there actually was a collective decision made by the LNC to
> address it.
>
> It seems rather apples and oranges to say adding the detail that it was a
> New Jersey coin used to break an election tie is the same as documenting
> the rationale for one person's vote but not including the same for all the
> other voters.  I'm sure not all LNC members share the sentiment that the
> reason for your vote was more "significant and relevant" than was the
> reason for their vote.  I think all my debate is significant and relevant,
> else I wouldn't bother to take the time to say it.
>
> -Alicia
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 12:50 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Thank you - I will take a look.  Have you had a chance to review the 1/6
> > minutes?
> >
> > On the last, that is not an entirely accurate account of the discussion
> on
> > the RONR forum.  And in the past, when a member requested (Starchild
> often
> > did) and at my request you included a winsome story about the New Jersey
> > quarter, so I am not agreeing to that change.  I know not all other
> members
> > feel we were out of line at that time, I do, and members of the gallery
> and
> > Mr. Koerner expresses appreciation at my protest, thus it is significant
> > and relevant.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 12:34 AM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Below are my comments regarding version 4 of the December minutes.
> >>
> >> 1)  My previous comments included, “p. 31, footnote 44 documents only
> part
> >> of the net -$2,000 change. A previous Mattson motion increased it by
> >> $8,000, then part H of the Henchman motion reduced it by $10,000 for the
> >> net change.”
> >>
> >> In version 4, the change was made to the wrong footnote.  It was added
> to
> >> then-footnote-46, which is now-footnote-44 after the elimination of two
> >> other footnotes.  What version 4 needs now is to delete the phrase “,
> and
> >> Henchman-Longstreth Proposal H, Ballot 181202-6” from footnote 44, and
> add
> >> “and Mattson amendments on page 22” to footnote 42.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2)  My previous comments included that footnote 33 was factually
> >> incorrect,
> >> since three is the normal number of annual LNC meetings, thus it is not
> a
> >> reduction.  To address that comment, version 4 merely changed the phrase
> >> “reducing the number of in-person LNC meetings to three…” to “limiting
> the
> >> number of in-person LNC meetings to three…”  The same comment still
> >> applies
> >> to this new wording.  Since three is the normal number, limiting it to
> >> three would not actually effect a reduction in that budget expense
> >> category.  The LNC only voted on the dollar reduction, without
> specifying
> >> how it would be accomplished, though the footnote implies that debate
> >> comments by one or two people constituted some sort of group agreement.
> >>
> >>
> >> 3)  I previously commented about the footnote which was then numbered
> 56,
> >> but is now numbered 54.  Previously it merely indicated that you voted
> >> “present” and it was “counted as” an abstention, and I commented that
> is a
> >> distinction without a difference.  After you inquired about it on an
> >> internet forum and were advised to not indulge the member requesting you
> >> to
> >> include the reason for their abstention in the minutes, version 4 has
> >> specifically added to the original phrasing an explanation that the
> >> abstention was a “protest” vote.  Now one person’s abstention is
> >> explained,
> >> though others’ votes/abstentions are not explained.
> >>
> >> -Alicia
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:00 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> >    I also uploaded to Dropbox
> >> >    - [1]
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zfvfwnu1xbgrprz/2018-12-01-02-MINUTES-V4
> >> >    .pdf?dl=0
> >> >
> >> >    On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:56 AM Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> >    <[2]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >    It is attached... I see it on my email.  You are not opening with
> AOL
> >> >    are you?  It was sent as a google drive link as it is a large file.
> >> >
> >> >    On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:40 AM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business
> >> >    <[3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >      Ms. Harlos,
> >> >      Where is the attachment?
> >> >      ---
> >> >      Sam Goldstein
> >> >      Libertarian National Committee
> >> >      317-850-0726 Cell
> >> >      On 2019-01-20 00:03, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> >> >      > After reviewing Ms. Mattson's comments, attached please find
> >> >      version 4
> >> >      >    of the draft minutes.  Please advise of any comments or
> >> >      corrections.
> >> >      >    If I do not hear otherwise, after time has passed, I will
> >> >      asking for
> >> >      >    co-sponsors to put these up for an email vote.
> >> >      >    [1][icon_10_generic_list.png]  2018-12-01-02-MINUTES-V4.pdf
> >> >      > [x_8px.png]
> >> >      >    --
> >> >      >      In Liberty,
> >> >      >
> [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
> >> >      >    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary
> >> >      >    - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> >      >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >> >      >    Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
> >> >      >    at [3][4]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >      >
> >> >      >
> >> >
> >> ====================================================================
> >> >      ===
> >> >      >    ==
> >> >      >    Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> >> >      > Re-Legalize
> >> >      >    All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal
> >> >      All Gun
> >> >      >    Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money *
> >> >      Abolish The
> >> >      >    Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS
> and
> >> >      > Repeal
> >> >      >    the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
> >> >      > Free-market
> >> >      >    Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government
> >> >      Schools To
> >> >      >    The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
> >> >      >    VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [4][5]http://www.LP.org
> >> >      >
> >> >      >
> >> >
> >> ====================================================================
> >> >      ===
> >> >      >    ==
> >> >      >
> >> >      > References
> >> >      >
> >> >      >    1.
> >> >      >
> >> >      [6]
> >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sHtAyO_RikgGmyJOHTb0cAnQfkc3hd8M
> >> >      /view?usp=drive_web
> >> >      >    2. mailto:[7]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >> >      >    3. [8]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >      >    4. [9]http://www.lp.org/
> >> >
> >> >      --
> >> >
> >> >      In Liberty,
> >> >    [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
> >> >    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> >> >    Secretary - [10]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >> >    Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
> >> >    at [11]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >
> >> =======================================================================
> >> >    ==
> >> >    Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> >> Re-Legalize
> >> >    All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All
> Gun
> >> >    Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish
> The
> >> >    Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and
> Repeal
> >> >    the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
> >> Free-market
> >> >    Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools
> To
> >> >    The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
> >> >    VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [12]http://www.LP.org
> >> >
> >> =======================================================================
> >> >    ==
> >> >
> >> >    --
> >> >
> >> >      In Liberty,
> >> >    [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
> >> >    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> >> >    Secretary - [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >> >    Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
> >> >    at [14]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >
> >> =======================================================================
> >> >    ==
> >> >    Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> >> Re-Legalize
> >> >    All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All
> Gun
> >> >    Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish
> The
> >> >    Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and
> Repeal
> >> >    the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
> >> Free-market
> >> >    Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools
> To
> >> >    The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
> >> >    VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [15]http://www.LP.org
> >> >
> >> =======================================================================
> >> >    ==
> >> >
> >> > References
> >> >
> >> >    1.
> >> >
> >>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zfvfwnu1xbgrprz/2018-12-01-02-MINUTES-V4.pdf?dl=0
> >> >    2. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> >> >    3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >> >    4. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >    5. http://www.LP.org/
> >> >    6.
> >> >
> >>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sHtAyO_RikgGmyJOHTb0cAnQfkc3hd8M/view?usp=drive_web
> >> >    7. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >> >    8. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >    9. http://www.lp.org/
> >> >   10. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >> >   11. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >   12. http://www.lp.org/
> >> >   13. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >> >   14. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >   15. http://www.lp.org/
> >> >
> >>
> > --
> >
> > *  In Liberty,*
> >
> > *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> Caryn.Ann.
> > Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
> > *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> > facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >
> > =========================================================================
> > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
> All
> > Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
> > Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
> > Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income
> Tax
> > * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> Services
> > * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
> > Eliminate Regulation *
> >
> > *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <
> http://www.lp.org/>*
> > =========================================================================
> >
>
-- 

*  In Liberty,*

*Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
*Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/

=========================================================================
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax
* Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services
* Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
Eliminate Regulation *

*VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>*
=========================================================================



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