[Lnc-business] DRAFT MINUTES LNC Meeting December 1-2, 2018 v4
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Wed Feb 13 01:42:45 EST 2019
I think you pointed out inadvertently what was not accurate - we have had a
practice of including such requests that did not originate with me, ie
Starchild (and often my) requests and the Legend of New Jersey Quarter.
I think any other back and forth will just annoy others so I’ve said what I
wish to.
On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 11:10 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> I am sure that some readers quickly get tired of back-and-forth, however I
> think I do need to respond to this because of the implication that I am
> mischaracterizing an off-list exchange.
>
> I wrote:
>
> "3) I previously commented about the footnote which was then numbered 56,
> but is now numbered 54. Previously it merely indicated that you voted
> “present” and it was “counted as” an abstention, and I commented that is a
> distinction without a difference. After you inquired about it on an
> internet forum and were advised to not indulge the member requesting you to
> include the reason for their abstention in the minutes, version 4 has
> specifically added to the original phrasing an explanation that the
> abstention was a “protest” vote. Now one person’s abstention is explained,
> though others’ votes/abstentions are not explained."
>
> CAH response:
>
> "On the last, that is not an entirely accurate account of the discussion on
> the RONR forum. And in the past, when a member requested (Starchild often
> did) and at my request you included a winsome story about the New Jersey
> quarter, so I am not agreeing to that change. I know not all other members
> feel we were out of line at that time, I do, and members of the gallery and
> Mr. Koerner expresses appreciation at my protest, thus it is significant
> and relevant."
>
> I think my comment was a fair summary of the account of the discussion on
> the RONR forum. Though there was another side theme among some who thought
> your question was whether a secretary is obligated to record the verbatim
> words that one used to abstain even if they recited the Pledge of
> Allegiance, or whether the secretary ignores the vocabulary and merely
> categorizes it as an abstention just like the other abstentions -- of the
> comments that directly answered the question of whether it was proper for
> the minutes to say it was a "protest" abstention went like this:
>
> 1) Not really.
> 2) It would not be proper to note in the minutes that the non-vote was an
> act of protest.
> 3) Minutes should be minimalist: "what was done, not what was said" Put
> the other (entirely valuable, to be sure) stuff in a newsletter.
> 4) I would strongly suggest that you not indulge her. Record her
> abstention.
>
> The closest thing to support for the idea was not very supportive: "Well,
> it's up to the assembly what to include. RONR does not allow
> "explanations" to accompany voting. If you have a conflicting custom, and
> nobody objects, well, you'll have to live with the results."
>
> Which of those pieces of advice suggested that the footnote be updated to
> add that the reason for abstaining was a desire to protest? I don't agree
> that my characterization was inaccurate.
>
> I also don't believe that I did indulge Starchild's many requests for
> special notes in the minutes. I have a vague recollection of one instance
> in which there was some informal-procedure agreement made for something
> which would overcome his objection, or some such, so I put that in the
> minutes because there actually was a collective decision made by the LNC to
> address it.
>
> It seems rather apples and oranges to say adding the detail that it was a
> New Jersey coin used to break an election tie is the same as documenting
> the rationale for one person's vote but not including the same for all the
> other voters. I'm sure not all LNC members share the sentiment that the
> reason for your vote was more "significant and relevant" than was the
> reason for their vote. I think all my debate is significant and relevant,
> else I wouldn't bother to take the time to say it.
>
> -Alicia
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 12:50 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Thank you - I will take a look. Have you had a chance to review the 1/6
> > minutes?
> >
> > On the last, that is not an entirely accurate account of the discussion
> on
> > the RONR forum. And in the past, when a member requested (Starchild
> often
> > did) and at my request you included a winsome story about the New Jersey
> > quarter, so I am not agreeing to that change. I know not all other
> members
> > feel we were out of line at that time, I do, and members of the gallery
> and
> > Mr. Koerner expresses appreciation at my protest, thus it is significant
> > and relevant.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 12:34 AM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Below are my comments regarding version 4 of the December minutes.
> >>
> >> 1) My previous comments included, “p. 31, footnote 44 documents only
> part
> >> of the net -$2,000 change. A previous Mattson motion increased it by
> >> $8,000, then part H of the Henchman motion reduced it by $10,000 for the
> >> net change.”
> >>
> >> In version 4, the change was made to the wrong footnote. It was added
> to
> >> then-footnote-46, which is now-footnote-44 after the elimination of two
> >> other footnotes. What version 4 needs now is to delete the phrase “,
> and
> >> Henchman-Longstreth Proposal H, Ballot 181202-6” from footnote 44, and
> add
> >> “and Mattson amendments on page 22” to footnote 42.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2) My previous comments included that footnote 33 was factually
> >> incorrect,
> >> since three is the normal number of annual LNC meetings, thus it is not
> a
> >> reduction. To address that comment, version 4 merely changed the phrase
> >> “reducing the number of in-person LNC meetings to three…” to “limiting
> the
> >> number of in-person LNC meetings to three…” The same comment still
> >> applies
> >> to this new wording. Since three is the normal number, limiting it to
> >> three would not actually effect a reduction in that budget expense
> >> category. The LNC only voted on the dollar reduction, without
> specifying
> >> how it would be accomplished, though the footnote implies that debate
> >> comments by one or two people constituted some sort of group agreement.
> >>
> >>
> >> 3) I previously commented about the footnote which was then numbered
> 56,
> >> but is now numbered 54. Previously it merely indicated that you voted
> >> “present” and it was “counted as” an abstention, and I commented that
> is a
> >> distinction without a difference. After you inquired about it on an
> >> internet forum and were advised to not indulge the member requesting you
> >> to
> >> include the reason for their abstention in the minutes, version 4 has
> >> specifically added to the original phrasing an explanation that the
> >> abstention was a “protest” vote. Now one person’s abstention is
> >> explained,
> >> though others’ votes/abstentions are not explained.
> >>
> >> -Alicia
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:00 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I also uploaded to Dropbox
> >> > - [1]
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zfvfwnu1xbgrprz/2018-12-01-02-MINUTES-V4
> >> > .pdf?dl=0
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:56 AM Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> > <[2]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > It is attached... I see it on my email. You are not opening with
> AOL
> >> > are you? It was sent as a google drive link as it is a large file.
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 6:40 AM Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business
> >> > <[3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Ms. Harlos,
> >> > Where is the attachment?
> >> > ---
> >> > Sam Goldstein
> >> > Libertarian National Committee
> >> > 317-850-0726 Cell
> >> > On 2019-01-20 00:03, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> >> > > After reviewing Ms. Mattson's comments, attached please find
> >> > version 4
> >> > > of the draft minutes. Please advise of any comments or
> >> > corrections.
> >> > > If I do not hear otherwise, after time has passed, I will
> >> > asking for
> >> > > co-sponsors to put these up for an email vote.
> >> > > [1][icon_10_generic_list.png] 2018-12-01-02-MINUTES-V4.pdf
> >> > > [x_8px.png]
> >> > > --
> >> > > In Liberty,
> >> > >
> [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
> >> > > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary
> >> > > - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> > > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >> > > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
> >> > > at [3][4]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> ====================================================================
> >> > ===
> >> > > ==
> >> > > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> >> > > Re-Legalize
> >> > > All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal
> >> > All Gun
> >> > > Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money *
> >> > Abolish The
> >> > > Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS
> and
> >> > > Repeal
> >> > > the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
> >> > > Free-market
> >> > > Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government
> >> > Schools To
> >> > > The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
> >> > > VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [4][5]http://www.LP.org
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> ====================================================================
> >> > ===
> >> > > ==
> >> > >
> >> > > References
> >> > >
> >> > > 1.
> >> > >
> >> > [6]
> >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sHtAyO_RikgGmyJOHTb0cAnQfkc3hd8M
> >> > /view?usp=drive_web
> >> > > 2. mailto:[7]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >> > > 3. [8]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> > > 4. [9]http://www.lp.org/
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > In Liberty,
> >> > [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
> >> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> >> > Secretary - [10]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >> > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
> >> > at [11]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >
> >> =======================================================================
> >> > ==
> >> > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> >> Re-Legalize
> >> > All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All
> Gun
> >> > Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish
> The
> >> > Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and
> Repeal
> >> > the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
> >> Free-market
> >> > Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools
> To
> >> > The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
> >> > VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [12]http://www.LP.org
> >> >
> >> =======================================================================
> >> > ==
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > In Liberty,
> >> > [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
> >> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> >> > Secretary - [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >> > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
> >> > at [14]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >
> >> =======================================================================
> >> > ==
> >> > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> >> Re-Legalize
> >> > All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All
> Gun
> >> > Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish
> The
> >> > Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and
> Repeal
> >> > the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
> >> Free-market
> >> > Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools
> To
> >> > The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
> >> > VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [15]http://www.LP.org
> >> >
> >> =======================================================================
> >> > ==
> >> >
> >> > References
> >> >
> >> > 1.
> >> >
> >>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zfvfwnu1xbgrprz/2018-12-01-02-MINUTES-V4.pdf?dl=0
> >> > 2. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> >> > 3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >> > 4. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> > 5. http://www.LP.org/
> >> > 6.
> >> >
> >>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sHtAyO_RikgGmyJOHTb0cAnQfkc3hd8M/view?usp=drive_web
> >> > 7. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >> > 8. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> > 9. http://www.lp.org/
> >> > 10. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >> > 11. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> > 12. http://www.lp.org/
> >> > 13. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >> > 14. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> > 15. http://www.lp.org/
> >> >
> >>
> > --
> >
> > * In Liberty,*
> >
> > *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> Caryn.Ann.
> > Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
> > *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> > facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >
> > =========================================================================
> > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
> All
> > Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
> > Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
> > Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income
> Tax
> > * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> Services
> > * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
> > Eliminate Regulation *
> >
> > *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <
> http://www.lp.org/>*
> > =========================================================================
> >
>
--
* In Liberty,*
*Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
*Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
=========================================================================
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax
* Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services
* Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
Eliminate Regulation *
*VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>*
=========================================================================
More information about the Lnc-business
mailing list