[Lnc-business] Point of Inquiry - Article 7.6
brent.olsen at lp.org
brent.olsen at lp.org
Wed Mar 13 15:31:40 EDT 2019
Thanks for the clarification. I think it is perfectly reasonable for
such an expectation be added to a regional agreement. That expectation
is not stated in our regional agreement in Region 4. However, I still
do try to stay up on LNC activities and do plan to attend as many of the
meetings as I am able, regardless of whether Jeff will be there or not.
I did miss two in a row, though I only expected to miss the one in
December, initially.
-Brent
On 2019-03-13 12:12, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business wrote:
> One quick comment regarding Craig's resignation. It is in our regional
> agreement that the alternates are expected to attend the LNC meetings
> and
> submit reports to be included with the regional report. That is a small
> but
> significant exception for my region as compared to the other regions as
> I
> am unaware of another regional agreement including such a provision for
> their alternates.
>
> Richard Longstreth
> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY)
> Libertarian National Committee
> richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 931.538.9300
>
> Sent from my Mobile Device
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2019, 11:24 Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>> Dr. Olsen,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In no way, by my making this inquiry, did I intend to insist it
>> be
>> applied immediately to remove you or Mr. Anderson from this committee,
>> and
>> if that is how it was received, I apologize. It's quite the opposite.
>> Recently, Alternate Bowden resigned citing his inability to
>> participate to
>> his own satisfaction. I believe the constraints the Bylaws places on
>> us
>> forces us to consider these questions automatically, so that it
>> doesn't
>> come down to a "political football game". Mr. Sarwark's ruling was
>> that
>> the rule exists and applies to alternates, and I hope it only serves
>> as a
>> notice that in the future, it will. As we continue to create and
>> populate
>> subcommittees, fill other important roles and prepare our organization
>> to
>> enter the 2020 stage, we need all hands on deck! I look forward to
>> meeting
>> you in Austin and working together on these important projects in the
>> future, which I am sure will become plentiful after we hire a new
>> Executive
>> Director at the end of the month.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Stay tuned for our next non-troversy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Very Respectfully,
>>
>>
>> Jeff Lyons
>>
>>
>> World's Worst Alternate
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for Android
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 2:02 PM -0400, "brent.olsen--- via
>> Lnc-business" <
>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks! I will go ahead and make my reservations then. I look
>> forward
>> to seeing you all in July (and some of you in April at the California
>> convention).
>>
>> -Brent
>>
>> On 2019-03-13 09:36, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>> > Brent I fear it may not be resolved until then if ever and prices keep
>> > going up. No LNC ever would have considered you resigned and I’m
>> > truly sorry you are being treated like a political football.
>> >
>> > I’m planning on acting as if this unfortunate incident never
>> > happened and hope people find better things to do with their time.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 9:14 AM wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thank you Caryn Ann,
>> >>
>> >> I have certainly not voluntarily resigned. I will, however, wait to
>> >> see
>> >> what the end result of this nonsense is before making my travel
>> >> reservations for Austin...
>> >>
>> >> -Brent
>> >>
>> >> On 2019-03-13 07:24, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>> >>> Here is where I am at. I smell a game, and I don’t appreciate
>> >> being an
>> >>> unwilling participant.
>> >>>
>> >>> I intend to conduct my business precisely as I have and the Chair
>> >> can
>> >>> rule
>> >>> me out of Order. I refuse to recognize that Brent and Phill have
>> >>> resigned
>> >>> and suggest they refuse as well.
>> >>>
>> >>> If there is a game being played here stop it. I do not sacrifice
>> >> my
>> >>> life
>> >>> and treasure for this and consider political games to be a form of
>> >>
>> >>> fraud
>> >>> and a violation of our membership pledge.
>> >>>
>> >>> Notice I said IF there is a game. But my instincts are screaming
>> >> there
>> >>> is
>> >>> and if so count me out. I will not play and do not consent.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 8:03 AM Phil Anderson
>> >>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> The simplest thing to do is to acknowledge that this committee
>> >>>> understands
>> >>>> the concept of 'alternate', and that each region has one
>> >>>> representative to
>> >>>> the LNC and an alternate to that representative, and let that
>> >> common
>> >>>> sense
>> >>>> and probably universal understanding guide interpretation of our
>> >>>> bylaws. If
>> >>>> there are facially conflicting bylaws, let's fix those at
>> >> convention.
>> >>>> This
>> >>>> committee doesn't serve the bylaws, the bylaws serve the will and
>> >>
>> >>>> intent of
>> >>>> the party as expressed in convention, and I don't think there is
>> >> a
>> >>>> dispute
>> >>>> as to what the understanding and intent of the party are...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Get Outlook for Android
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 6:02 AM -0500, "Caryn Ann Harlos via
>> >>>> Lnc-business"
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thank you Alicia I had that in my list of nonsensical outcomes as
>> >>
>> >>>> well- and
>> >>>>> say for instance on that suspension vote for Mr. Vohra - why
>> >> were not
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> alternates told they could and should vote at that e-meeting
>> >> (even
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> email vote) since it is the ENTIRE LNC mentioned. I’m trying
>> >> to
>> >>>>> remember
>> >>>>> the opinion of those alternates but I’m fairly positive the
>> >> outcome
>> >>>>> would
>> >>>>> have been different. I know region 1 would be miffed to know
>> >> this
>> >>>>> since
>> >>>>> both of my alternates were pro-suspension and Mr. Nielson wished
>> >> to
>> >>>>> sponsor
>> >>>>> Mr. McKnight’s initial motion.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In fact I’m fairly certain if alts were members Mr. Vohra
>> >> would have
>> >>>>> been
>> >>>>> soundly removed.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -Caryn Ann
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 3:11 AM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Bylaws Article 13 provides that, "The chair or secretary shall
>> >> send out
>> >>>>>> electronic mail ballots on any question submitted by the chair
>> >> or
>> >>>>>> cosponsored by at least 1/5 of the members of the board or
>> >> committee."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Is it the chair's position that LNC alternates can co-sponsor
>> >> email
>> >>>>>> ballots? And that rather than having 17 members of the LNC,
>> >> we instead
>> >>>>>> have 24 (while Region 1 is short an alternate)? And that
>> >> quorum is 13
>> >>>>>> rather than 9? And the 1/5-of-the-members email ballot
>> >> threshold is 5
>> >>>>>> rather than 4? And a few other implications...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Some of the alternates whose statuses are not challenged under
>> >> this ruling
>> >>>>>> should co-sponsor the appeal to see what happens...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -Alicia
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 6:16 PM Nicholas Sarwark via
>> >> Lnc-business <
>> >>>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> > I would note that I didn't discuss the policy manual at all.
>> >> My
>> >>>>>> > analysis is based on the bylaws entirely.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > Specifically, Article 7.2 defines "members," and regional
>> >> alternates
>> >>>>>> > are "members" under that definition.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > The plain reading of Article 7.6 says there is an automatic
>> >> vacancy if
>> >>>>>> > a "member" misses two consecutive regular meetings.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > You may have more luck appealing the ruling if you can
>> >> explain what is
>> >>>>>> > incorrect of my reading of the bylaws.
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > -Nick
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 4:19 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
>> >>>>>> > wrote:
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > > I would appeal that ruling of the Chair. No policy manual
>> >> change
>> >>>>>> > defined them as full members.
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > > Will three people please co-sponsor this?
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > > On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 4:52 PM Nicholas Sarwark via
>> >> Lnc-business <
>> >>>>>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>> > >>
>> >>>>>> > >> The relevant bylaws provision does appear to indicate
>> >> that they have
>> >>>>>> > >> vacated their seats automatically, though the past
>> >> practice of this
>> >>>>>> > >> board has not been to enforce that bylaws provision with
>> >> regard to
>> >>>>>> > >> Regional Alternates.
>> >>>>>> > >>
>> >>>>>> > >> There is at least a facially conflicting provision of the
>> >> bylaws,
>> >>>>>> > >> Article 7.8, "A National Committee Regional
>> >> Representative or
>> >>>>>> > >> Alternate may be removed and replaced only by the act of
>> >> the affiliate
>> >>>>>> > >> parties that constitute the subject region. The voting
>> >> procedure for
>> >>>>>> > >> the removal and replacement of regional representatives
>> >> or alternates
>> >>>>>> > >> shall be determined by the regions. In the absence of any
>> >> such
>> >>>>>> > >> procedures, a majority vote of the state chairs
>> >> comprising the region
>> >>>>>> > >> shall prevail."
>> >>>>>> > >>
>> >>>>>> > >> So we have 7.6 saying there is an automatic vacancy and
>> >> 7.8 saying
>> >>>>>> > >> that removal and replacement can only be done by the
>> >> region.
>> >>>>>> > >>
>> >>>>>> > >> The simplest thing to do if Mr. Anderson and Dr. Olsen
>> >> are still
>> >>>>>> > >> willing and able to serve would be for their regions to
>> >> indicate that
>> >>>>>> > >> they would like to reappoint them as alternates.
>> >>>>>> > >>
>> >>>>>> > >> -Nick
>> >>>>>> > >>
>> >>>>>> > >> On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 12:52 PM Jeff Lyons
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> > >> >
>> >>>>>> > >> > Good afternoon,
>> >>>>>> > >> >
>> >>>>>> > >> > Point of Inquiry, Mr. Chairman- Have Mr. Anderson
>> >> and Mr.
>> >>>>>> Olsen
>> >>>>>> > now
>> >>>>>> > >> > vacated their seats on the National Committee as a
>> >> result of being
>> >>>>>> > >> > absent from 2 consecutive regular LNC Meetings?
>> >>>>>> > >> >
>> >>>>>> > >> > Reference- Bylaws Article 7.6: "A National Committee
>> >> member who
>> >>>>>> fails
>> >>>>>> > to
>> >>>>>> > >> > attend two consecutive regular sessions of the National
>> >> Committee
>> >>>>>> > shall
>> >>>>>> > >> > be deemed to have vacated his or her seat. The
>> >> appointing body shall
>> >>>>>> > be
>> >>>>>> > >> > free to reappoint the member who vacated the seat."
>> >>>>>> > >> >
>> >>>>>> > >> >
>> >>>>>> > >> >
>> >>>>>> > >> > --
>> >>>>>> > >> > In Liberty,
>> >>>>>> > >> > Jeff Lyons
>> >>>>>> > >> >
>> >>>>>> > >> > Region 8 Alternate
>> >>>>>> > >> > https://www.lp.org/wethepeople/?f=jly
>> >>>>>> > >> >
>> >>>>>> > >> > Libertarian Assoc. of MA
>> >>>>>> > >> > State Chair
>> >>>>>> > >> > http://www.lpmass.org/join
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > > --
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > > In Liberty,
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>> >> Secretary -
>> >>>>>> > Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> >>>>>> > > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
>> >> LPedia at LP.org
>> >>>>>> > > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
>> >> at
>> >>>>>> > facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/ [1]
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>>
>> >>
>> > =========================================================================
>> >>>>>> > > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
>> >> Re-Legalize
>> >>>>>> > All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal
>> >> All Gun
>> >>>>>> Laws *
>> >>>>>> > Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish
>> >> The Fed * End
>> >>>>>> > Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal
>> >> the Income
>> >>>>>> Tax
>> >>>>>> > * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
>> >> Emergency
>> >>>>>> Services
>> >>>>>> > * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The
>> >> Private Sector *
>> >>>>>> > Eliminate Regulation *
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> > > VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
>> >>>>>> > >
>> >>>>>> ============================================================
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> =============
>> >>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> * In Liberty,*
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>> >> *-
>> >>>>> Caryn.Ann.
>> >>>>> Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> >>>>> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
>> >>>>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
>> >>>>> atfacebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/ [2]
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>
>> > =========================================================================
>> >>>>> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
>> >>>>> Re-Legalize All
>> >>>>> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
>> >> Laws
>> >>>>> *
>> >>>>> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
>> >> Fed *
>> >>>>> End
>> >>>>> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
>> >>>>> Income Tax
>> >>>>> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
>> >> Emergency
>> >>>>> Services
>> >>>>> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private
>> >> Sector
>> >>>>> *
>> >>>>> Eliminate Regulation *
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org *
>> >>>>>
>> >>
>> > =========================================================================
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>
>> >>> * In Liberty,*
>> >>>
>> >>> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
>> >>
>> >>> Caryn.Ann.
>> >>> Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> >>> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
>> >>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
>> >>> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/ [1]
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> > =========================================================================
>> >>> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
>> >> Re-Legalize
>> >>> All
>> >>> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
>> >> Laws *
>> >>> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed
>> >> * End
>> >>> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
>> >> Income
>> >>> Tax
>> >>> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
>> >>> Services
>> >>> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private
>> >> Sector *
>> >>> Eliminate Regulation *
>> >>>
>> >>> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
>> >>> *
>> >>>
>> >>
>> > =========================================================================
>> > --
>> >
>> > IN LIBERTY,
>> > __
>> >
>> > LIBERTARIAN PARTY AND LIBERTARIAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE SECRETARY -
>> > Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> > CHAIR, LP HISTORICAL PRESERVATION COMMITTEE - LPedia at LP.org
>> >
>> > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
>> > facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/ [1]
>> >
>> > =========================================================================
>> > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
>> > All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
>> > Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
>> > Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal
>> > the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
>> > Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
>> > The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
>> >
>> > VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US OR HTTP://WWW.LP.ORG [3]
>> > =========================================================================
>> >
>> >
>> > Links:
>> > ------
>> > [1] http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>> > [2] http://atfacebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>> > [3] http://www.lp.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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