[Lnc-business] EMAIL BALLOT 190711-1 MOTION TO CENSURE BENJAMIN LEDER

[Richard Longstreth]

Greetings again,

The state chairs of region 1 came together quickly and agreed that an
abstain vote is the will of the region and so I change my previous vote in
another thread from no to abstain with all of the same points I made
previously.
...
We do not wish there to be any perception that we approve of Mr Leder's
comments and a no vote could be perceived that way whereas we hope to send
the message, by our abstention, that this should not be an LNC matter.
...

There are a couple of nuances to talk about in relation to the vote. My
role is to represent the region. I am trusted to hear their voices and
concerns and use my judgement to make decisions. For this decision, I
sought feedback from the state chairs via messenger, from the region on the
region 1 discussion group, and from people in general via the lnc business
– discuss group. There were many thoughts and opinions brought up but
ultimately, I had to consider the following:

   1.

   Who is Benjamin Leder? He is a member of the Libertarian Party who is
   running for president, albeit, polling poorly in most circles. There is
   evidence of colorful language and advocation of violence and threats to a
   variety of people attributed to him. However, this is a vote to censure,
   not a vote to report him to the proper authorities to prevent acts of
   potential domestic terrorism. If any person, whether on the LNC or
   otherwise feels threatened in anyway by any person, you have somewhat of a
   moral obligation to let the authorities know. I am a proud Radical Caucus
   member, but this is where philosophy meets reality. I, nor does the LNC,
   have any ability to stop any violence advocated by Mr. Leder and a censure
   would not stop any violent plans. It pains me to say that this is exactly
   the type of thing a government, in the current era of politics, can help
   prevent. If there was a working private police network or other security
   organization that could actively prevent the violence advocated by Mr.
   Leder, then I would be in favor of reporting to them instead. Safety is
   priority and at the end of the day, everyone ought to feel safe and secure
   at home or going to a political convention. Again, I urge any party that
   feels threatened to report to authorities why you feel threatened. A
   censure will not alleviate those threats in anyway.
   2.

   What does censure mean and or accomplish? Essentially a censure is when
   a body sends the message that they disapprove of a person’s statements or
   actions in a formal way. It is not a true disciplinary action, nor does it
   have any real effects, other than a record of condemnation. If the LNC
   censures someone, we are formally stating that we do not approve of that
   person. If we do that as the LNC, we are stating, essentially, that we wish
   for that individual not be a member. Part of being a member is to agree to
   the non-aggression principle.
   3.
      1.

      Mr. Leder clearly has made several statements which indicate he no
      longer agrees with the non-aggression principle and so, in my
mind, he has
      already resigned as a member and a censure would accomplish little and
      would likely have no effect on him.
      2.

      There is however, the chance the censuring him would have a reverse
      effect: he becomes a martyr to like-minded individuals and a beacon for
      those who agree or sympathize with him. It also could push him to a point
      of no longer caring. Right now, his comments have no verifiable
evidence of
      action that I can find. If Mr. Leder believes himself to be a member and
      then the leadership turns their back on him by censuring, where does that
      leave him? An unstable mind that feels abandoned is a dangerous thing.
      4.

   Should this body (the LNC) even consider censure?
   5.
      1.

      In recent history, there have been two censures brought before the
      LNC – one of Arvin Vohra, a member of the LNC at the time the LNC was
      considering and the other is Benjamin Leder, LP member and declared,
      FEC-filing presidential candidate. Essentially, the situation with Mr.
      Vohra was brought to the LNC because Mr. Vohra was part of the LNC.
      Censuring him separated his viewpoints from those of his
colleagues and as
      leaders of the party it was worth discussing and voting on. In
Mr. Leder’s
      case, however, he is not on the LNC. Further, he is not a state
chair nor,
      to my knowledge, involved in any state’s leadership. He is
simply a member
      who is saying inappropriate things. I do not believe the LNC
should have a
      role in reviewing each member of the party to determine if they have ever
      said or done anything deserving of censure. It sets a bad precedent. I
      understood the LNC discussing Mr. Vohra, who sat next to them as a leader
      of this party. I do not understand reaching down into common
membership to
      do the same.
      2.

      Since I have already explained what a censure is, then I will also
      say that a censure could also be construed as voicing an opinion on the
      upcoming election and candidates quite easily. The LNC traditionally has
      kept its distance from such conversations of endorsing or condemning
      presidential candidates until after convention in favor of letting
      delegates decide for themselves.
      6.

   Mr. Leder is running for president; doesn’t that give him a different
   spotlight? No. To date, there are currently 779 candidates running for
   president. Of those, 34 are Libertarian. If Mr Leder running for president
   means something, then I challenge any Libertarian to name all 34 candidates
   running for our party without looking it up. To be honest, I only knew of
   about 10. He is a member who filed some paperwork. That does not elevate
   his status, especially this far out from Convention and the 2020 election.
   If he were our presidential nominee, then I would absolutely favor censure.
   7.

   This could start a witch hunt mentality and could lead to a slippery
   slope. Often I hear people joke about purity tests in the Party. I refuse
   to let the LNC become a potential tool for such activity. I am fearful of a
   day when something I say in emotion or out of context could be construed to
   mean something other than intended. In this case, Mr. Leder probably should
   be reprimanded, and he has been. The LPRC accepted his forced resignation
   and the leadership in Texas is discussing him because he is one of their
   members. If the LNC begins commenting on who is libertarian enough or
   libertarian appropriate, we begin to establish what the bar for being a
   libertarian is which should never be a purpose of our leadership. The
   purpose of the LNC is to develop and guide the future of the party, not get
   bogged down determining if someone is living up to their pledge or not.
   8.

   What if he goes off the deep end (McVeigh style) and the LNC didn’t
   censure? That would be a terrible scenario, however, I would argue that the
   opposite could happen as well. I believe Mr. Leder to be a sick, possibly
   violent, social media warrior. Whether the LNC censures or not is
   irrelevant to the media and outsiders if he has Libertarian next to his
   name; even if it is only self-proclaimed media would latch onto the word.
   Further, because he has filed as a Libertarian to run for president, there
   is nothing the LNC can do to shake our name from his by voting on it via
   email in 7 days. The other points I’ve made are based in principle and
   thought, not an emotional appeal to the what ifs of the world. If something
   terrible were to happen, I am in favor of writing and introducing a
   resolution condemning his actions and explaining why violence does not jive
   with libertarian ideals. One should not condemn a man for his words on
   social media, but for his actions in the real world.


Richard Longstreth
Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY)
Libertarian National Committee
richard.longstreth at lp.org
931.538.9300

Sent from my Mobile Device

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:19 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> I would like to say something that is the heart of the reason why I said
> yes.  And it wasn't an easy yes.  I know Mr. Leder, and I am grieved as for
> whatever is going on in his life that made him so angry, he never acted
> anything but polite to me personally though I understand other people had
> severely negative interactions.  I personally disassociated a while ago
> because of the way he treated another dear friend.
>
> Now, please peruse this Wikipedia article in which former chair Dasbach is
> mentioned.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_pledge
>
> The idea that McVeigh claimed to be a libertarian was probably unknown to
> most people until after that act, but the media sure made it known after
> the fact.
>
> Now imagine both McVeigh and domestic terroristic statements while not just
> claiming to be a libertarian, but a Libertarian, and a Libertarian
> presidential candidate to boot, were well known to the Party ahead of time.
>
> How do you think we would have looked if silent?  Do we think "this is a
> waste of time" or any of our other excuses would sound reasonable to the
> families?
>
> Mr. Leder clearly is advocating violence for political goals exactly what
> the state would love to pin on us.  I hope he gets whatever assistance he
> needs to get his mind out of such a dark place, and yes, our words won't
> "change" anything.  But neither does expression of sympathy after terror.
> But we quickly offer one.  How about taking a stand before the fact to one
> thing that we all agree on.  Political violence is the opposite of being
> Libertarian.
>
> But I think we are wrong in another way.  Words do mean something and
> change things.  Just because they can't do that one thing doesn't mean they
> do nothing.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperberger's Syndrome
> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can effect inter-personal
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know.  I am asking you to help
> me - in a diverse world, we must work to meet each other halfway.*
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 6:04 AM Steven Nekhaila <steven.nekhaila at lp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I vote AYE to censure Ben Leder. It is important to distance ourselves
> > from individuals who are harrassing members in this way and have a
> history
> > of violent behavior while making direct threats against our convention
> and
> > attendees.
> >
> > When FL had threats made against its 2017 convention, several of us
> > pitched in and hired private security.
> >
> > Motioning to censure is literally the least we can do, we must take some
> > sort of action. Sometimes doing nothing is a net benefit, but I do not
> > believe standing idle while threats are being made is ever the
> appropriate
> > action in these instances.
> >
> > If threats escalate or continue we will take ever more appropriate
> action.
> >
> > In Liberty,
> >
> > Steven Nekhaila
> > Region 2 Representative
> >
> > impotentes defendere liberatum non possunt
> > “Those without power cannot defend freedom”
> >
> >
> > On Jul 11, 2019 at 6:49 PM, <Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
> > <lnc-business at hq.lp.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > My reason is very specific as I have been asked why support this motion
> > over all the horrible things said.  First, this is the motion that was
> > made.  I am not going to mine the subjunctive on motions not made.  But
> on
> > this one it is the domestic terrorism angle which is what our pledge
> exists
> > to protect us against.  That we are not domestic terrorists.  If we
> cannot
> > condemn these statements then we are betraying the purpose of our pledge,
> > domestic terrorism is specifically the use of force to achieve political
> > goals.
> >
> > That was the line for me.
> >
> > -Caryn Ann
> >
> > *In Liberty,*
> >
> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperberger's Syndrome
> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can effect inter-personal
> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know.  I am asking you to
> help
> > me - in a diverse world, we must work to meet each other halfway.*
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 11:42 AM Joshua Smith via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > I vote aye and hope that the rest of my colleagues will see the value
> in
> > > making a statement that says we are willing to protect our brand.
> > >
> > > In Liberty,
> > > Joshua Smith
> > >
> > > On Jul 11, 2019 10:25 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> > > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > BALLOT 190711-1 MOTION TO CENSURE BENJAMIN LEDER
> > >
> > > We have an electronic mail ballot.
> > >
> > > Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by JULY 18, 2019 at 11:59:59 pm
> > > Pacific time.
> > >
> > > Co-Sponsors:  Harlos, Longstreth, Nekhaila, Phillips, Smith
> > >
> > > =============================================
> > >
> > >
> > > Motion: WHEREAS, Mr. Benjamin Leder (Texas) is currently running to be
> > > elected as the Libertarian Party's nominee for President of the United
> > > States;
> > >
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, Mr. Leder has continually engaged in behavior that goes
> directly
> > > against our core principles and is antithetical to the mission of any
> > > representative of the Libertarian Party;
> > >
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, He has made direct violent threats and approval of domestic
> > > terrorism against the Libertarian Party, including its National
> Committee
> > > members, conventions, candidates, and members of local affiliates, in
> > > cases
> > > not in self-defense, but in blatant aggression to achieve political
> goals;
> > >
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, As examples of the above, he has published articles, appeared
> in
> > > media, and  posted on social media clear threats of violence and
> advocate
> > > of domestic terrorism on peaceful people,  including calling for an
> > > ""Oklahoma City style"" ending to not only the Democratic and
> Republican
> > > conventions, but also of the 2020 Libertarian National Convention, thus
> > > putting in danger our staff, delegates, and family members;
> > >
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, He has made public, violent statements about killing peaceful
> > > people and ""leaving their bodies in contractor bags at the curb for
> the
> > > garbage man"";
> > >
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, He has called for members who support the official Libertarian
> > > Party position of being anti-war to be physically battered;
> > >
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party absolutely repudiates non-defensive
> > > violence
> > > and all aggression against peaceful people, and associating such
> > > statements
> > > with our Party defames its members and brand; and
> > >
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, That the Libertarian National Committee condemns these
> actions
> > > by
> > > Mr. Leder as completely abhorrent to the mission, platform, and
> principles
> > > of the Libertarian Party.
> > >
> > > =============================================
> > >
> > > THRESHOLD REQUIRED: Majority.
> > >
> > >
> > > You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:
> > > https://tinyurl.com/ballot190711-1.  Votes are noted with a link to
> the
> > > actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that the
> manual
> > > tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.
> > >
> > > Please notify me of any discrepancies.
> > >
> > > *  In Liberty,*
> > > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperberger's
> Syndrome
> > > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can effect inter-personal
> > > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> > > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> faux
> > > pas), please contact me privately and let me know.  I am asking you to
> > > help
> > > me - in a diverse world, we must work to meet each other halfway.*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>