[Lnc-business] Motion to censure Benjamin Leder

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Mr. Anderson, I will note this in the vote thread but it would be helpful
if you did.  It is the one that has BALLOT in all caps.

-Caryn Ann

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know.  *



On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 7:24 PM phillip.anderson--- via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> I vote for censure.
>
>
>
> From: Lnc-business <lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org> On Behalf Of John
> Phillips via Lnc-business
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2019 8:06 PM
> To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> Cc: John Phillips <john.phillips at lp.org>
> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Motion to censure Benjamin Leder
>
>
>
> After a lot of introspection, discussions with my region and my alternate,
> my team, and other LNC members, I have decided to recuse myself from this
> vote due to conflict of interest, despite, or perhaps because of strong
> feelings on it.
>
>
>
> I co-sponsored it because I believe that discussion of it is important.
> Many good points have been raised by both sides.
>
>
>
> Phil Andersen will be casting the vote for region 6 in his capacity as
> alternate.
>
> John Phillips
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> Cell 217-412-5973
>
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2019 6:11 PM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org> > wrote:
>
> In my capacity as Region 1 Representative, I vote nay.
>
> There are a couple of nuances to talk about in relation to the vote. My
> role is to represent the region. I am trusted to hear their voices and
> concerns and use my judgement to make decisions. For this decision, I
> sought feedback from the state chairs via messenger, from the region on
> the
> region 1 discussion group, and from people in general via the lnc business
> – discuss group. There were many thoughts and opinions brought up but
> ultimately, I had to consider the following:
>
>    1.
>
>    Who is Benjamin Leder? He is a member of the Libertarian Party who is
>    running for president, albeit, polling poorly in most circles. There is
>    evidence of colorful language and advocation of violence and threats to
> a
>    variety of people attributed to him. However, this is a vote to
> censure,
>    not a vote to report him to the proper authorities to prevent acts of
>    potential domestic terrorism. If any person, whether on the LNC or
>    otherwise feels threatened in anyway by any person, you have somewhat
> of a
>    moral obligation to let the authorities know. I am a proud Radical
> Caucus
>    member, but this is where philosophy meets reality. I, nor does the
> LNC,
>    have any ability to stop any violence advocated by Mr. Leder and a
> censure
>    would not stop any violent plans. It pains me to say that this is
> exactly
>    the type of thing a government, in the current era of politics, can
> help
>    prevent. If there was a working private police network or other
> security
>    organization that could actively prevent the violence advocated by Mr.
>    Leder, then I would be in favor of reporting to them instead. Safety is
>    priority and at the end of the day, everyone ought to feel safe and
> secure
>    at home or going to a political convention. Again, I urge any party
> that
>    feels threatened to report to authorities why you feel threatened. A
>    censure will not alleviate those threats in anyway.
>    2.
>
>    What does censure mean and or accomplish? Essentially a censure is when
>    a body sends the message that they disapprove of a person’s statements
> or
>    actions in a formal way. It is not a true disciplinary action, nor does
> it
>    have any real effects, other than a record of condemnation. If the LNC
>    censures someone, we are formally stating that we do not approve of
> that
>    person. If we do that as the LNC, we are stating, essentially, that we
> wish
>    for that individual not be a member. Part of being a member is to agree
> to
>    the non-aggression principle.
>    3.
>       1.
>
>       Mr. Leder clearly has made several statements which indicate he no
>       longer agrees with the non-aggression principle and so, in my
> mind, he has
>       already resigned as a member and a censure would accomplish little
> and
>       would likely have no effect on him.
>       2.
>
>       There is however, the chance the censuring him would have a reverse
>       effect: he becomes a martyr to like-minded individuals and a beacon
> for
>       those who agree or sympathize with him. It also could push him to a
> point
>       of no longer caring. Right now, his comments have no verifiable
> evidence of
>       action that I can find. If Mr. Leder believes himself to be a member
> and
>       then the leadership turns their back on him by censuring, where does
> that
>       leave him? An unstable mind that feels abandoned is a dangerous
> thing.
>       4.
>
>    Should this body (the LNC) even consider censure?
>    5.
>       1.
>
>       In recent history, there have been two censures brought before the
>       LNC – one of Arvin Vohra, a member of the LNC at the time the LNC
> was
>       considering and the other is Benjamin Leder, LP member and declared,
>       FEC-filing presidential candidate. Essentially, the situation with
> Mr.
>       Vohra was brought to the LNC because Mr. Vohra was part of the LNC.
>       Censuring him separated his viewpoints from those of his
> colleagues and as
>       leaders of the party it was worth discussing and voting on. In
> Mr. Leder’s
>       case, however, he is not on the LNC. Further, he is not a state
> chair nor,
>       to my knowledge, involved in any state’s leadership. He is
> simply a member
>       who is saying inappropriate things. I do not believe the LNC
> should have a
>       role in reviewing each member of the party to determine if they have
> ever
>       said or done anything deserving of censure. It sets a bad precedent.
> I
>       understood the LNC discussing Mr. Vohra, who sat next to them as a
> leader
>       of this party. I do not understand reaching down into common
> membership to
>       do the same.
>       2.
>
>       Since I have already explained what a censure is, then I will also
>       say that a censure could also be construed as voicing an opinion on
> the
>       upcoming election and candidates quite easily. The LNC traditionally
> has
>       kept its distance from such conversations of endorsing or condemning
>       presidential candidates until after convention in favor of letting
>       delegates decide for themselves.
>       6.
>
>    Mr. Leder is running for president; doesn’t that give him a different
>    spotlight? No. To date, there are currently 779 candidates running for
>    president. Of those, 34 are Libertarian. If Mr Leder running for
> president
>    means something, then I challenge any Libertarian to name all 34
> candidates
>    running for our party without looking it up. To be honest, I only knew
> of
>    about 10. He is a member who filed some paperwork. That does not
> elevate
>    his status, especially this far out from Convention and the 2020
> election.
>    If he were our presidential nominee, then I would absolutely favor
> censure.
>    7.
>
>    This could start a witch hunt mentality and could lead to a slippery
>    slope. Often I hear people joke about purity tests in the Party. I
> refuse
>    to let the LNC become a potential tool for such activity. I am fearful
> of a
>    day when something I say in emotion or out of context could be
> construed to
>    mean something other than intended. In this case, Mr. Leder probably
> should
>    be reprimanded, and he has been. The LPRC accepted his forced
> resignation
>    and the leadership in Texas is discussing him because he is one of
> their
>    members. If the LNC begins commenting on who is libertarian enough or
>    libertarian appropriate, we begin to establish what the bar for being a
>    libertarian is which should never be a purpose of our leadership. The
>    purpose of the LNC is to develop and guide the future of the party, not
> get
>    bogged down determining if someone is living up to their pledge or not.
>    8.
>
>    What if he goes off the deep end (McVeigh style) and the LNC didn’t
>    censure? That would be a terrible scenario, however, I would argue that
> the
>    opposite could happen as well. I believe Mr. Leder to be a sick,
> possibly
>    violent, social media warrior. Whether the LNC censures or not is
>    irrelevant to the media and outsiders if he has Libertarian next to his
>    name; even if it is only self-proclaimed media would latch onto the
> word.
>    Further, because he has filed as a Libertarian to run for president,
> there
>    is nothing the LNC can do to shake our name from his by voting on it
> via
>    email in 7 days. The other points I’ve made are based in principle and
>    thought, not an emotional appeal to the what ifs of the world. If
> something
>    terrible were to happen, I am in favor of writing and introducing a
>    resolution condemning his actions and explaining why violence does not
> jive
>    with libertarian ideals. One should not condemn a man for his words on
>    social media, but for his actions in the real world.
>
>
> ...
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 13:45 Erin Adams via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org> > wrote:
>
> > Our region will cast a vote before the deadline
> > On Jul 12, 2019 12:00 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> <mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Is that a yes?
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:30 AM Erin Adams via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org> > wrote:
> >
> > Oklahoma voted to censure Joe Exotic in 2017. In 2018 Oklahoma voted to
> > remove the membership of Joe Exotic just before he was convicted on over
> 20
> > federal charges INCLUDING multiple counts of murder for hire. The
> members
> > saw "smoke" and acted . The members were correct imo. Joe Exotic is
> STILL a
> > declared candidate for our POTUS nomination....
> >
> > I fully support this motion
> >
> > Erin Adams
> > Region 7 Alternate
> >
> > On Jul 10, 2019 6:53 PM, Joshua Smith via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org> > wrote:
> >
> > Good evening esteemed colleagues,
> >
> > I am currently looking for co-sponsors for my motion to censure Benjamin
> > Leder. He is a candidate for our POTUS Nomination and has been spreading
> > some pretty hanus stuff. I believe that as party leadership it is
> extremely
> > important that we let the party know that we arent supportive of these
> > actions.
> >
> > Motion below:
> >
> > To the Libertarian National Committee
> >
> > WHEREAS, Mr. Benjamin Leder (Texas) is currently running to be elected
> as
> > the Libertarian Party's nominee for President of the United States;
> >
> > WHEREAS, Mr. Leder has continually engaged in behavior that goes
> directly
> > against our core principles and is antithetical to the mission of any
> > representative of the Libertarian Party;
> >
> > WHEREAS, He has made direct violent threats and approval of domestic
> > terrorism against the Libertarian Party, including its National
> Committee
> > members, conventions, candidates, and members of local affiliates, in
> cases
> > not in self-defense, but in blatant aggression to achieve political
> goals;
> >
> > WHEREAS, As examples of the above, he has published articles, appeared
> in
> > media, and  posted on social media clear threats of violence and
> advocate
> > of domestic terrorism on peaceful people,  including calling for an
> > "Oklahoma City style" ending to not only the Democratic and Republican
> > conventions, but also of the 2020 Libertarian National Convention, thus
> > putting in danger our staff, delegates, and family members;
> >
> > WHEREAS, He has made public, violent statements about killing peaceful
> > people and "leaving their bodies in contractor bags at the curb for the
> > garbage man";
> >
> > WHEREAS, He has called for members who support the official Libertarian
> > Party position of being anti-war to be physically battered;
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party absolutely repudiates non-defensive
> > violence and all aggression against peaceful people, and associating
> such
> > statements with our Party defames its members and brand; and
> >
> > RESOLVED, That the Libertarian National Committee condemns these actions
> > by Mr. Leder as completely abhorrent to the mission, platform, and
> > principles of the Libertarian Party.
> >
> > Respectfully submitted,
> >
> > Joshua D. Smith, LNC At Large Representative
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *In Liberty,*
> >
> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperberger's
> Syndrome
> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can effect inter-personal
> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> faux
> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know.  I am asking you to
> help
> > me - in a diverse world, we must work to meet each other halfway.*
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>