[Lnc-business] Motion to censure Benjamin Leder

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Mr. Longstreth, can you please put that in the ballot thread.

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know.  *



On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 7:46 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
wrote:

> Mr. Anderson, I will note this in the vote thread but it would be helpful
> if you did.  It is the one that has BALLOT in all caps.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know.  *
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 7:24 PM phillip.anderson--- via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>> I vote for censure.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Lnc-business <lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org> On Behalf Of John
>> Phillips via Lnc-business
>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2019 8:06 PM
>> To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> Cc: John Phillips <john.phillips at lp.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Motion to censure Benjamin Leder
>>
>>
>>
>> After a lot of introspection, discussions with my region and my
>> alternate, my team, and other LNC members, I have decided to recuse myself
>> from this vote due to conflict of interest, despite, or perhaps because of
>> strong feelings on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I co-sponsored it because I believe that discussion of it is important.
>> Many good points have been raised by both sides.
>>
>>
>>
>> Phil Andersen will be casting the vote for region 6 in his capacity as
>> alternate.
>>
>> John Phillips
>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>> Cell 217-412-5973
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 15, 2019 6:11 PM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business <
>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org> > wrote:
>>
>> In my capacity as Region 1 Representative, I vote nay.
>>
>> There are a couple of nuances to talk about in relation to the vote. My
>> role is to represent the region. I am trusted to hear their voices and
>> concerns and use my judgement to make decisions. For this decision, I
>> sought feedback from the state chairs via messenger, from the region on
>> the
>> region 1 discussion group, and from people in general via the lnc
>> business
>> – discuss group. There were many thoughts and opinions brought up but
>> ultimately, I had to consider the following:
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>    Who is Benjamin Leder? He is a member of the Libertarian Party who is
>>    running for president, albeit, polling poorly in most circles. There
>> is
>>    evidence of colorful language and advocation of violence and threats
>> to a
>>    variety of people attributed to him. However, this is a vote to
>> censure,
>>    not a vote to report him to the proper authorities to prevent acts of
>>    potential domestic terrorism. If any person, whether on the LNC or
>>    otherwise feels threatened in anyway by any person, you have somewhat
>> of a
>>    moral obligation to let the authorities know. I am a proud Radical
>> Caucus
>>    member, but this is where philosophy meets reality. I, nor does the
>> LNC,
>>    have any ability to stop any violence advocated by Mr. Leder and a
>> censure
>>    would not stop any violent plans. It pains me to say that this is
>> exactly
>>    the type of thing a government, in the current era of politics, can
>> help
>>    prevent. If there was a working private police network or other
>> security
>>    organization that could actively prevent the violence advocated by Mr.
>>    Leder, then I would be in favor of reporting to them instead. Safety
>> is
>>    priority and at the end of the day, everyone ought to feel safe and
>> secure
>>    at home or going to a political convention. Again, I urge any party
>> that
>>    feels threatened to report to authorities why you feel threatened. A
>>    censure will not alleviate those threats in anyway.
>>    2.
>>
>>    What does censure mean and or accomplish? Essentially a censure is
>> when
>>    a body sends the message that they disapprove of a person’s statements
>> or
>>    actions in a formal way. It is not a true disciplinary action, nor
>> does it
>>    have any real effects, other than a record of condemnation. If the LNC
>>    censures someone, we are formally stating that we do not approve of
>> that
>>    person. If we do that as the LNC, we are stating, essentially, that we
>> wish
>>    for that individual not be a member. Part of being a member is to
>> agree to
>>    the non-aggression principle.
>>    3.
>>       1.
>>
>>       Mr. Leder clearly has made several statements which indicate he no
>>       longer agrees with the non-aggression principle and so, in my
>> mind, he has
>>       already resigned as a member and a censure would accomplish little
>> and
>>       would likely have no effect on him.
>>       2.
>>
>>       There is however, the chance the censuring him would have a reverse
>>       effect: he becomes a martyr to like-minded individuals and a beacon
>> for
>>       those who agree or sympathize with him. It also could push him to a
>> point
>>       of no longer caring. Right now, his comments have no verifiable
>> evidence of
>>       action that I can find. If Mr. Leder believes himself to be a
>> member and
>>       then the leadership turns their back on him by censuring, where
>> does that
>>       leave him? An unstable mind that feels abandoned is a dangerous
>> thing.
>>       4.
>>
>>    Should this body (the LNC) even consider censure?
>>    5.
>>       1.
>>
>>       In recent history, there have been two censures brought before the
>>       LNC – one of Arvin Vohra, a member of the LNC at the time the LNC
>> was
>>       considering and the other is Benjamin Leder, LP member and
>> declared,
>>       FEC-filing presidential candidate. Essentially, the situation with
>> Mr.
>>       Vohra was brought to the LNC because Mr. Vohra was part of the LNC.
>>       Censuring him separated his viewpoints from those of his
>> colleagues and as
>>       leaders of the party it was worth discussing and voting on. In
>> Mr. Leder’s
>>       case, however, he is not on the LNC. Further, he is not a state
>> chair nor,
>>       to my knowledge, involved in any state’s leadership. He is
>> simply a member
>>       who is saying inappropriate things. I do not believe the LNC
>> should have a
>>       role in reviewing each member of the party to determine if they
>> have ever
>>       said or done anything deserving of censure. It sets a bad
>> precedent. I
>>       understood the LNC discussing Mr. Vohra, who sat next to them as a
>> leader
>>       of this party. I do not understand reaching down into common
>> membership to
>>       do the same.
>>       2.
>>
>>       Since I have already explained what a censure is, then I will also
>>       say that a censure could also be construed as voicing an opinion on
>> the
>>       upcoming election and candidates quite easily. The LNC
>> traditionally has
>>       kept its distance from such conversations of endorsing or
>> condemning
>>       presidential candidates until after convention in favor of letting
>>       delegates decide for themselves.
>>       6.
>>
>>    Mr. Leder is running for president; doesn’t that give him a different
>>    spotlight? No. To date, there are currently 779 candidates running for
>>    president. Of those, 34 are Libertarian. If Mr Leder running for
>> president
>>    means something, then I challenge any Libertarian to name all 34
>> candidates
>>    running for our party without looking it up. To be honest, I only knew
>> of
>>    about 10. He is a member who filed some paperwork. That does not
>> elevate
>>    his status, especially this far out from Convention and the 2020
>> election.
>>    If he were our presidential nominee, then I would absolutely favor
>> censure.
>>    7.
>>
>>    This could start a witch hunt mentality and could lead to a slippery
>>    slope. Often I hear people joke about purity tests in the Party. I
>> refuse
>>    to let the LNC become a potential tool for such activity. I am fearful
>> of a
>>    day when something I say in emotion or out of context could be
>> construed to
>>    mean something other than intended. In this case, Mr. Leder probably
>> should
>>    be reprimanded, and he has been. The LPRC accepted his forced
>> resignation
>>    and the leadership in Texas is discussing him because he is one of
>> their
>>    members. If the LNC begins commenting on who is libertarian enough or
>>    libertarian appropriate, we begin to establish what the bar for being
>> a
>>    libertarian is which should never be a purpose of our leadership. The
>>    purpose of the LNC is to develop and guide the future of the party,
>> not get
>>    bogged down determining if someone is living up to their pledge or
>> not.
>>    8.
>>
>>    What if he goes off the deep end (McVeigh style) and the LNC didn’t
>>    censure? That would be a terrible scenario, however, I would argue
>> that the
>>    opposite could happen as well. I believe Mr. Leder to be a sick,
>> possibly
>>    violent, social media warrior. Whether the LNC censures or not is
>>    irrelevant to the media and outsiders if he has Libertarian next to
>> his
>>    name; even if it is only self-proclaimed media would latch onto the
>> word.
>>    Further, because he has filed as a Libertarian to run for president,
>> there
>>    is nothing the LNC can do to shake our name from his by voting on it
>> via
>>    email in 7 days. The other points I’ve made are based in principle and
>>    thought, not an emotional appeal to the what ifs of the world. If
>> something
>>    terrible were to happen, I am in favor of writing and introducing a
>>    resolution condemning his actions and explaining why violence does not
>> jive
>>    with libertarian ideals. One should not condemn a man for his words on
>>    social media, but for his actions in the real world.
>>
>>
>> ...
>> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 13:45 Erin Adams via Lnc-business <
>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org> > wrote:
>>
>> > Our region will cast a vote before the deadline
>> > On Jul 12, 2019 12:00 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>> <mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Is that a yes?
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 10:30 AM Erin Adams via Lnc-business <
>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Oklahoma voted to censure Joe Exotic in 2017. In 2018 Oklahoma voted to
>> > remove the membership of Joe Exotic just before he was convicted on
>> over 20
>> > federal charges INCLUDING multiple counts of murder for hire. The
>> members
>> > saw "smoke" and acted . The members were correct imo. Joe Exotic is
>> STILL a
>> > declared candidate for our POTUS nomination....
>> >
>> > I fully support this motion
>> >
>> > Erin Adams
>> > Region 7 Alternate
>> >
>> > On Jul 10, 2019 6:53 PM, Joshua Smith via Lnc-business <
>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org <mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Good evening esteemed colleagues,
>> >
>> > I am currently looking for co-sponsors for my motion to censure
>> Benjamin
>> > Leder. He is a candidate for our POTUS Nomination and has been
>> spreading
>> > some pretty hanus stuff. I believe that as party leadership it is
>> extremely
>> > important that we let the party know that we arent supportive of these
>> > actions.
>> >
>> > Motion below:
>> >
>> > To the Libertarian National Committee
>> >
>> > WHEREAS, Mr. Benjamin Leder (Texas) is currently running to be elected
>> as
>> > the Libertarian Party's nominee for President of the United States;
>> >
>> > WHEREAS, Mr. Leder has continually engaged in behavior that goes
>> directly
>> > against our core principles and is antithetical to the mission of any
>> > representative of the Libertarian Party;
>> >
>> > WHEREAS, He has made direct violent threats and approval of domestic
>> > terrorism against the Libertarian Party, including its National
>> Committee
>> > members, conventions, candidates, and members of local affiliates, in
>> cases
>> > not in self-defense, but in blatant aggression to achieve political
>> goals;
>> >
>> > WHEREAS, As examples of the above, he has published articles, appeared
>> in
>> > media, and  posted on social media clear threats of violence and
>> advocate
>> > of domestic terrorism on peaceful people,  including calling for an
>> > "Oklahoma City style" ending to not only the Democratic and Republican
>> > conventions, but also of the 2020 Libertarian National Convention, thus
>> > putting in danger our staff, delegates, and family members;
>> >
>> > WHEREAS, He has made public, violent statements about killing peaceful
>> > people and "leaving their bodies in contractor bags at the curb for the
>> > garbage man";
>> >
>> > WHEREAS, He has called for members who support the official Libertarian
>> > Party position of being anti-war to be physically battered;
>> >
>> > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party absolutely repudiates non-defensive
>> > violence and all aggression against peaceful people, and associating
>> such
>> > statements with our Party defames its members and brand; and
>> >
>> > RESOLVED, That the Libertarian National Committee condemns these
>> actions
>> > by Mr. Leder as completely abhorrent to the mission, platform, and
>> > principles of the Libertarian Party.
>> >
>> > Respectfully submitted,
>> >
>> > Joshua D. Smith, LNC At Large Representative
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > *In Liberty,*
>> >
>> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperberger's
>> Syndrome
>> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can effect inter-personal
>> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
>> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>> faux
>> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know.  I am asking you to
>> help
>> > me - in a diverse world, we must work to meet each other halfway.*
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>