[Lnc-business] Electronic Balloting For POTUS/VP

Tue May 5 16:38:05 EDT 2020

In Colorado it is up to the delegate to keep a record of their votes and
report back

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:49 PM Daniel Fishman via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> Reading about it here:  https://www.opavote.com/help/online-elections , I
> don't think it does what we want.
>
> We don't get to generate the code, it's a random string generated by Opa.
> The look like this:
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> Essentially there are two types of voters -- those who are identified by
> email and those who are identified by a code.  And we can use a code for
> people who don't have email addresses.
>
> But we don't get to generate the code as far as I can tell.
>
> Also, I made a test election from a paid account.
>
> I sent to the following voters:
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> Even after voting from many of teh accounts however, the status of the
> election was not accurate not updated
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> When I drilled into the "Not Voted" it did indeed show me the email
> addresses that had not voted:
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> The results from the election were also somewhat disappointing:
>
> Although I can view ballots in an awkward way and see how each person
> voted, it is presented in a really terrible format, with a maximum of 4
> votes per page.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
>
> As far as I can tell, you cannot download a spreadsheet of voters and how
> they voted -- only the manager can see this ballot, which would be an
> enormous pain to screen scrape and then parse. And that doesn't matter if
> it's an email address or a code.
>
> So if we don't think we need the state by state count, Opa is "good enough"
> but I don't think it passes good transparency.
>
> Also, according to Caryn Ann Harlos, Colorado does NOT have voter
> anonymity, but Massachusetts does.  In MA the State chair tallies the
> county, but has no idea who submitted what sheet.
> That level of variation makes me think we will have to have a different
> system for each state.
>
> I would welcome being corrected.
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Daniel Fishman
> Executive Director
> The Libertarian Party
> Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:48 AM Daniel Fishman <dan.fishman at lphq.org>
> wrote:
>
> > It's like you read my mind!  :)
> >
> > ---
> > Daniel Fishman
> > Executive Director
> > The Libertarian Party
> > Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:47 AM Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein at lp.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Dan,
> >>
> >> OPAVOTE can be used for state counted voting by assigning each delegate
> >> a state coded voting id number (AL 101 to 013, CA 1401 to 14112 or
> >> whatever).  Then votes can be counted and reported by delegations.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Sam Goldstein, At Large Member
> >> Libertarian National Committee
> >> 317-850-0726 Cell
> >>
> >> On 2020-05-05 10:59, Daniel Fishman via Lnc-business wrote:
> >> > Dear LNC:
> >> >
> >> > I am confident that I can solve the technical aspects of the simple
> >> > process
> >> > of voting for a President and a Vice President which is IRV, single
> >> > vote in
> >> > each round, given 2 weeks notice.
> >> >
> >> > I would not use Voatz, which is too complicated for this simple task.
> >> >
> >> > We could either use OpaVote, which I am somewhat hesitant about
> because
> >> > of
> >> > a) its reliance on email
> >> > b) ignores the benefits of voting by states
> >> >
> >> > Alternatively we could make use of a publicly visible google
> >> > spreadsheet
> >> > where the secretary would record each state's totals as reported. The
> >> > states could vote as they see fit, but LPHQ would be happy to provide
> a
> >> > technological solution (web form) for each state.
> >> >
> >> > Bottom line, to enable a technical solution for President and Vice
> >> > President I would need 2 things
> >> >
> >> > 1) The credentials committee to close credentialing a week before the
> >> > vote.
> >> > 2) 2 weeks set up and testing
> >> >
> >> > Dan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > Daniel Fishman
> >> > Executive Director
> >> > The Libertarian Party
> >> > Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 3:38 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> >> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Mr. Wendt, you have broken the curse however.  I wish I had you as my
> >> >> alternate when I was regional.  My life would have been immeasurably
> >> >> easier.
> >> >>
> >> >> *In Liberty,*
> >> >>
> >> >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> Syndrome
> >> >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> >> >> anyone
> >> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> >> >> faux
> >> >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:31 PM Francis Wendt <francis.wendt at lp.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I can only speak for myself and not Ms. Sexton. It is my opinion
> that
> >> >> > alternates may have served a distinct purpose when the were
> >> incorporated
> >> >> > into the bylaws. Debate is relevant, but incomplete, thus I must
> >> >> > disagree with your assessment. Their purpose is merely a fail-safe
> >> to an
> >> >> > inoperable LNC. In a word, alternates are insurance.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Before COVID-19 I had submitted amendments to the Bylaws Committee
> to
> >> >> > attempt to rectify this situation the proper way with full respect
> to
> >> >> > the bylaws, delegates, and history of the party. Now that we are in
> >> the
> >> >> > environment we are in, I do not believe it is imperative to the
> >> survival
> >> >> > of the party to consider them this term. You have mused that the
> >> Region
> >> >> > 1 alternate seat is cursed. My assessment is that it is a factor of
> >> 11
> >> >> > states of work with little recognition or meaningful voice. I do
> not
> >> >> > mean any of this as a derogatory statement to any members of this
> >> >> > committee past or present. It is just the nature of the beast.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My main opinion is that when a custom, rule, or law becomes
> obsolete
> >> or
> >> >> > hindering as the environments change, we must have the personal
> >> courage
> >> >> > to change that failing into a workable success. I applaud the
> >> members of
> >> >> > this committee that have done the sincere work to find that
> workable
> >> >> > success in this new, changed environment.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sincerely,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ---
> >> >> > FRANCIS WENDT
> >> >> > LNC Region 1 Alternate
> >> >> >   406.595.5111
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 2020-05-04 23:08, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> >> >> > > To Ms. Sexton and Mr. Wendt - please let me know if the committee
> >> has
> >> >> > > done
> >> >> > > anything to make  you feel diminished by your alternate status.
> >> The
> >> >> > > several comments today made me feel as perhaps we have done
> >> something
> >> >> > > wrong, and if I have ever made you feel like your voice was
> >> lesser, I
> >> >> > > apologize.  While it is true that you cannot vote as a matter of
> >> right,
> >> >> > > I
> >> >> > > also found that debate rights are far more important, and that
> you
> >> have
> >> >> > > equal to everyone else on this list.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > *In Liberty,*
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> >> Syndrome
> >> >> > > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> >> > > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> >> anyone
> >> >> > > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> >> social
> >> >> > > faux
> >> >> > > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:06 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> >> > > <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> >> >> > > wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >> Ms. Sexton, I think the large contours everyone is in agreement
> >> with.
> >> >> > >> The
> >> >> > >> "hybrid" option is fully in the delegates hands.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> It is unfortunate that different opinions here have led to slurs
> >> that
> >> >> > >> amount to accusations of evil on the part of others.  I am
> >> learning
> >> >> > >> the
> >> >> > >> hard way there are few to no friends in politics.  Not even
> >> >> > >> Libertarian
> >> >> > >> politics.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> *In Liberty,*
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> >> Syndrome
> >> >> > >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> >> > >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> >> >> > >> anyone
> >> >> > >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> >> social
> >> >> > >> faux
> >> >> > >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 9:04 PM Victoria Paige Lee via
> >> Lnc-business <
> >> >> > >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>> As a measly alternate I would like to say I agree with this
> >> option. I
> >> >> > >>> think it may be the best compromise we will be able to have.
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> V. Paige Sexton BSN,RN
> >> >> > >>> Region 2 Alternate
> >> >> > >>> Libertarian National Committee
> >> >> > >>> 901-390-0578
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> > On May 4, 2020, at 20:09, joshua.smith--- via Lnc-business <
> >> >> > >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >> > >>> >
> >> >> > >>> > 
> >> >> > >>> > Good afternoon,
> >> >> > >>> >
> >> >> > >>> > I want to give notice that myself, Joe Bishop-Henchman, John
> >> >> Phillips
> >> >> > >>> Jr., Caryn Ann Harlos, Bill Redpath, Alex Merced, Steven
> >> Nekhaila,
> >> >> > >>> and
> >> >> > >>> Richard Longstreth intend to offer and support the following
> >> motion
> >> >> > >>> to
> >> >> > >>> amend something previously adopted at the meeting this Saturday
> >> and
> >> >> > >>> ask
> >> >> > >>> that it be placed first on the agenda.  The motion is as
> follows:
> >> >> > >>> >
> >> >> > >>> > Move to add the following to the end of the motion postponing
> >> our
> >> >> > >>> regular convention already adopted:
> >> >> > >>> >
> >> >> > >>> > "with the exception of the nomination of our Presidential and
> >> >> > >>> Vice-Presidential candidates which will take place
> >> electronically on
> >> >> > >>> June
> >> >> > >>> 6-7 via a method and procedure to be finalized by the LNC prior
> >> to
> >> >> > >>> May
> >> >> > >>> 18th.  All other business will take place at the previously
> >> adopted
> >> >> > >>> in-person meeting in accordance to article 10 of The
> Libertarian
> >> >> > >>> Party
> >> >> > >>> Bylaws and Convention Rules."
> >> >> > >>> >
> >> >> > >>> > Immediately following adoption of this motion, the LNC shall
> >> take
> >> >> up
> >> >> > >>> the procedure with a proposal to be submitted by members of the
> >> >> > >>> bylaws
> >> >> > >>> committee prior to this meeting.  That procedure will be
> >> submitted to
> >> >> > >>> the
> >> >> > >>> LNC as soon as possible prior to the meeting.
> >> >> > >>> >
> >> >> > >>> >
> >> >> > >>> >
> >> >> > >>> >
> >> >> > >>> > Your friend in liberty,
> >> >> > >>> > Joshua D. Smith
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> >
>
-- 

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *