[Lnc-business] Electronic Balloting For POTUS/VP

[Tim Hagan]

Convention Rule 3 has, "If someone challenges the vote reported by any 
state's chair, the Secretary shall poll the delegates from that state 
individually."
Convention Rule 4 has, "In cases where computer readable ballots are 
used, each delegate must sign the ballot and submit it to the delegation 
chair."
The voting method is not constrained to needing secret ballots or 
anonymity.

---
Tim Hagan
Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee

On 2020-05-05 13:38, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> In Colorado it is up to the delegate to keep a record of their votes 
> and
> report back
> 
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:49 PM Daniel Fishman via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> 
>> Reading about it here:  https://www.opavote.com/help/online-elections 
>> , I
>> don't think it does what we want.
>> 
>> We don't get to generate the code, it's a random string generated by 
>> Opa.
>> The look like this:
>> 
>> [image: image.png]
>> 
>> Essentially there are two types of voters -- those who are identified 
>> by
>> email and those who are identified by a code.  And we can use a code 
>> for
>> people who don't have email addresses.
>> 
>> But we don't get to generate the code as far as I can tell.
>> 
>> Also, I made a test election from a paid account.
>> 
>> I sent to the following voters:
>> 
>> [image: image.png]
>> 
>> Even after voting from many of teh accounts however, the status of the
>> election was not accurate not updated
>> 
>> [image: image.png]
>> 
>> When I drilled into the "Not Voted" it did indeed show me the email
>> addresses that had not voted:
>> 
>> [image: image.png]
>> 
>> The results from the election were also somewhat disappointing:
>> 
>> Although I can view ballots in an awkward way and see how each person
>> voted, it is presented in a really terrible format, with a maximum of 
>> 4
>> votes per page.
>> 
>> [image: image.png]
>> 
>> 
>> As far as I can tell, you cannot download a spreadsheet of voters and 
>> how
>> they voted -- only the manager can see this ballot, which would be an
>> enormous pain to screen scrape and then parse. And that doesn't matter 
>> if
>> it's an email address or a code.
>> 
>> So if we don't think we need the state by state count, Opa is "good 
>> enough"
>> but I don't think it passes good transparency.
>> 
>> Also, according to Caryn Ann Harlos, Colorado does NOT have voter
>> anonymity, but Massachusetts does.  In MA the State chair tallies the
>> county, but has no idea who submitted what sheet.
>> That level of variation makes me think we will have to have a 
>> different
>> system for each state.
>> 
>> I would welcome being corrected.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> Daniel Fishman
>> Executive Director
>> The Libertarian Party
>> Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:48 AM Daniel Fishman <dan.fishman at lphq.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > It's like you read my mind!  :)
>> >
>> > ---
>> > Daniel Fishman
>> > Executive Director
>> > The Libertarian Party
>> > Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:47 AM Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein at lp.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dan,
>> >>
>> >> OPAVOTE can be used for state counted voting by assigning each delegate
>> >> a state coded voting id number (AL 101 to 013, CA 1401 to 14112 or
>> >> whatever).  Then votes can be counted and reported by delegations.
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> Sam Goldstein, At Large Member
>> >> Libertarian National Committee
>> >> 317-850-0726 Cell
>> >>
>> >> On 2020-05-05 10:59, Daniel Fishman via Lnc-business wrote:
>> >> > Dear LNC:
>> >> >
>> >> > I am confident that I can solve the technical aspects of the simple
>> >> > process
>> >> > of voting for a President and a Vice President which is IRV, single
>> >> > vote in
>> >> > each round, given 2 weeks notice.
>> >> >
>> >> > I would not use Voatz, which is too complicated for this simple task.
>> >> >
>> >> > We could either use OpaVote, which I am somewhat hesitant about
>> because
>> >> > of
>> >> > a) its reliance on email
>> >> > b) ignores the benefits of voting by states
>> >> >
>> >> > Alternatively we could make use of a publicly visible google
>> >> > spreadsheet
>> >> > where the secretary would record each state's totals as reported. The
>> >> > states could vote as they see fit, but LPHQ would be happy to provide
>> a
>> >> > technological solution (web form) for each state.
>> >> >
>> >> > Bottom line, to enable a technical solution for President and Vice
>> >> > President I would need 2 things
>> >> >
>> >> > 1) The credentials committee to close credentialing a week before the
>> >> > vote.
>> >> > 2) 2 weeks set up and testing
>> >> >
>> >> > Dan
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ---
>> >> > Daniel Fishman
>> >> > Executive Director
>> >> > The Libertarian Party
>> >> > Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 3:38 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>> >> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Mr. Wendt, you have broken the curse however.  I wish I had you as my
>> >> >> alternate when I was regional.  My life would have been immeasurably
>> >> >> easier.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *In Liberty,*
>> >> >>
>> >> >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>> Syndrome
>> >> >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>> >> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>> >> >> anyone
>> >> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>> >> >> faux
>> >> >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:31 PM Francis Wendt <francis.wendt at lp.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I can only speak for myself and not Ms. Sexton. It is my opinion
>> that
>> >> >> > alternates may have served a distinct purpose when the were
>> >> incorporated
>> >> >> > into the bylaws. Debate is relevant, but incomplete, thus I must
>> >> >> > disagree with your assessment. Their purpose is merely a fail-safe
>> >> to an
>> >> >> > inoperable LNC. In a word, alternates are insurance.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Before COVID-19 I had submitted amendments to the Bylaws Committee
>> to
>> >> >> > attempt to rectify this situation the proper way with full respect
>> to
>> >> >> > the bylaws, delegates, and history of the party. Now that we are in
>> >> the
>> >> >> > environment we are in, I do not believe it is imperative to the
>> >> survival
>> >> >> > of the party to consider them this term. You have mused that the
>> >> Region
>> >> >> > 1 alternate seat is cursed. My assessment is that it is a factor of
>> >> 11
>> >> >> > states of work with little recognition or meaningful voice. I do
>> not
>> >> >> > mean any of this as a derogatory statement to any members of this
>> >> >> > committee past or present. It is just the nature of the beast.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > My main opinion is that when a custom, rule, or law becomes
>> obsolete
>> >> or
>> >> >> > hindering as the environments change, we must have the personal
>> >> courage
>> >> >> > to change that failing into a workable success. I applaud the
>> >> members of
>> >> >> > this committee that have done the sincere work to find that
>> workable
>> >> >> > success in this new, changed environment.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Sincerely,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ---
>> >> >> > FRANCIS WENDT
>> >> >> > LNC Region 1 Alternate
>> >> >> >   406.595.5111
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 2020-05-04 23:08, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>> >> >> > > To Ms. Sexton and Mr. Wendt - please let me know if the committee
>> >> has
>> >> >> > > done
>> >> >> > > anything to make  you feel diminished by your alternate status.
>> >> The
>> >> >> > > several comments today made me feel as perhaps we have done
>> >> something
>> >> >> > > wrong, and if I have ever made you feel like your voice was
>> >> lesser, I
>> >> >> > > apologize.  While it is true that you cannot vote as a matter of
>> >> right,
>> >> >> > > I
>> >> >> > > also found that debate rights are far more important, and that
>> you
>> >> have
>> >> >> > > equal to everyone else on this list.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > *In Liberty,*
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>> >> Syndrome
>> >> >> > > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>> >> >> > > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>> >> anyone
>> >> >> > > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>> >> social
>> >> >> > > faux
>> >> >> > > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:06 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
>> >> >> > > <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
>> >> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >> Ms. Sexton, I think the large contours everyone is in agreement
>> >> with.
>> >> >> > >> The
>> >> >> > >> "hybrid" option is fully in the delegates hands.
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> It is unfortunate that different opinions here have led to slurs
>> >> that
>> >> >> > >> amount to accusations of evil on the part of others.  I am
>> >> learning
>> >> >> > >> the
>> >> >> > >> hard way there are few to no friends in politics.  Not even
>> >> >> > >> Libertarian
>> >> >> > >> politics.
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> *In Liberty,*
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>> >> Syndrome
>> >> >> > >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>> >> >> > >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>> >> >> > >> anyone
>> >> >> > >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>> >> social
>> >> >> > >> faux
>> >> >> > >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 9:04 PM Victoria Paige Lee via
>> >> Lnc-business <
>> >> >> > >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >>> As a measly alternate I would like to say I agree with this
>> >> option. I
>> >> >> > >>> think it may be the best compromise we will be able to have.
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> V. Paige Sexton BSN,RN
>> >> >> > >>> Region 2 Alternate
>> >> >> > >>> Libertarian National Committee
>> >> >> > >>> 901-390-0578
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> > On May 4, 2020, at 20:09, joshua.smith--- via Lnc-business <
>> >> >> > >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>> >
>> >> >> > >>> > 
>> >> >> > >>> > Good afternoon,
>> >> >> > >>> >
>> >> >> > >>> > I want to give notice that myself, Joe Bishop-Henchman, John
>> >> >> Phillips
>> >> >> > >>> Jr., Caryn Ann Harlos, Bill Redpath, Alex Merced, Steven
>> >> Nekhaila,
>> >> >> > >>> and
>> >> >> > >>> Richard Longstreth intend to offer and support the following
>> >> motion
>> >> >> > >>> to
>> >> >> > >>> amend something previously adopted at the meeting this Saturday
>> >> and
>> >> >> > >>> ask
>> >> >> > >>> that it be placed first on the agenda.  The motion is as
>> follows:
>> >> >> > >>> >
>> >> >> > >>> > Move to add the following to the end of the motion postponing
>> >> our
>> >> >> > >>> regular convention already adopted:
>> >> >> > >>> >
>> >> >> > >>> > "with the exception of the nomination of our Presidential and
>> >> >> > >>> Vice-Presidential candidates which will take place
>> >> electronically on
>> >> >> > >>> June
>> >> >> > >>> 6-7 via a method and procedure to be finalized by the LNC prior
>> >> to
>> >> >> > >>> May
>> >> >> > >>> 18th.  All other business will take place at the previously
>> >> adopted
>> >> >> > >>> in-person meeting in accordance to article 10 of The
>> Libertarian
>> >> >> > >>> Party
>> >> >> > >>> Bylaws and Convention Rules."
>> >> >> > >>> >
>> >> >> > >>> > Immediately following adoption of this motion, the LNC shall
>> >> take
>> >> >> up
>> >> >> > >>> the procedure with a proposal to be submitted by members of the
>> >> >> > >>> bylaws
>> >> >> > >>> committee prior to this meeting.  That procedure will be
>> >> submitted to
>> >> >> > >>> the
>> >> >> > >>> LNC as soon as possible prior to the meeting.
>> >> >> > >>> >
>> >> >> > >>> >
>> >> >> > >>> >
>> >> >> > >>> >
>> >> >> > >>> > Your friend in liberty,
>> >> >> > >>> > Joshua D. Smith
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> 
> --
> 
> *In Liberty,*
> 
> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social 
> faux
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *