[Lnc-business] Can we put out a poll to the delegates who voted for an in person convention

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Ahh thank you.  As long as the chair has approved.  Ignore my prior email.
Whether or not I agree, the chair has that authority.

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *



On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 1:10 PM Daniel Fishman <dan.fishman at lphq.org> wrote:

> I have conferred with the chair and have his approval.  The poll is in the
> mail
> ---
> Daniel Fishman
> Executive Director
> The Libertarian Party
> Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 2:55 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I object and agree with Sam.  You do not have the authority to send such
>> a poll over the objections of the LNC unless the Chair has overridden the
>> LNC.  Has he?
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>>
>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 12:42 PM Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein at lp.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I object.  Such a simplistic poll does not even begin to address the
>>> financial consequences to the party of a cancellation.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Sam Goldstein, At Large Member
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> Convention Oversight Committee
>>> 317-850-0726 Cell
>>>
>>> On 2020-07-01 14:36, Daniel Fishman via Lnc-business wrote:
>>> > What I plan to send. I think the attendance question is important.  I
>>> > will
>>> > close the poll at midnight 3:am Eastern. I tried to gracefully
>>> > incorporate
>>> > the "rescind" language.
>>> >
>>> > [image: image.png]
>>> > ---
>>> > Daniel Fishman
>>> > Executive Director
>>> > The Libertarian Party
>>> > Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 1:55 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> > <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> If the contract cannot be worked out that is out of our hands.  I
>>> >> wanted
>>> >> the poll yesterday.  Now I am done wasting my limited time on useless
>>> >> exercises that we will then argue endlessly over.  My bandwidth is at
>>> >> its
>>> >> end.
>>> >>
>>> >> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>
>>> >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
>>> >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >> anyone
>>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>>> >> faux
>>> >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:42 AM <john.phillips at lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> I get your point, but I disagree.  We have plenty of evidence that
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> delegates want to be polled that is reason enough to take the 5
>>> >>> minutes to
>>> >>> do it, and if they say have the convention than all is good anyway.
>>> >>> If
>>> >>> they say don't we have a data point to base a decision on.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In reality sitting on the call last night there are some contract
>>> >>> concerns that need to be worked out, and if they can't then it is
>>> >>> moot.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> John Phillips
>>> >>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>>> >>> Cell 217-412-5973
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Jul 1, 2020 12:33 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>  I do not agree with that wording.  It does not answer for me the
>>> >>> question that needs to be answered.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> And frankly it is too late.  Imagine if we spent this time doing
>>> >>> something productive.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>>> >>> faux
>>> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:05 AM <john.phillips at lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Oh for the love of god can we just do the poll.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Poll the delegates from Memorial day weekend.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ask them very simply:
>>> >>> Would you vote to have an in person convention in Orlando July 8th
>>> >>> thru
>>> >>> 12th.
>>> >>> Yes, No, Nota.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> At this point it wont matter with the screwing around going on as we
>>> >>> won't be able to meet in time to cancel even if they all vote to do
>>> >>> so, but
>>> >>> lets do the damn poll so we at least know how bad it is.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> John Phillips
>>> >>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>>> >>> Cell 217-412-5973
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Jul 1, 2020 11:46 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>>> >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Are you weighting the state chairs according to the number of
>>> >>> delegates?
>>> >>> If not, it is not representative.  Colorado has significantly more
>>> >>> delegates than other states.  You cannot use the state chairs as
>>> >>> representing delegates without that calculation.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It is too late.  I asked for this poll early yesterday.  It is
>>> >>> absolutely
>>> >>> unethical at this point to turn people's lives upside down when we
>>> >>> have a
>>> >>> location.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have not agreed with a lot of the criticisms of this body - there
>>> >>> has
>>> >>> been shady business going on and we were dealt a bad hand.  If we
>>> >>> cancel
>>> >>> when we have a location over the will of delegates at convention,
>>> >>> this
>>> >>> body
>>> >>> has no business being anywhere near leadership.  It is wrong, and it
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> robbing people who spent money and a violation of the principle of
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> non-initiation of force.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>>> >>> faux
>>> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:15 AM Richard Longstreth <
>>> >>> richard.longstreth at lp.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > I'm not good with wording polls but if someone is, I'd like to get
>>> this
>>> >>> > started sooner rather than later. I find wisdom in hearing from the
>>> >>> > delegates on this. My state chairs are, almost entirely, saying to
>>> not
>>> >>> > approve a third venue. Absent a poll of delegates, I intend to
>>> >>> represent
>>> >>> > their opinion and trust that they are representing their delegates
>>> to
>>> >>> me. I
>>> >>> > cannot poll everyone in the region myself at this point, let alone
>>> have
>>> >>> > contact info for all of the delegates for speedy communication.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Richard Longstreth
>>> >>> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA,
>>> WY)
>>> >>> > Libertarian National Committee
>>> >>> > richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> >>> > 931.538.9300
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Sent from my Mobile Device
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 20:51 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>>> >>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> As far as wording that is not my call.  But bad wording will kill
>>> the
>>> >>> >> entire usefulness.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 9:50 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> >>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> > The poll should be only those credentialed at the Sunday
>>> session of
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> >> > first part of the convention.
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > They made a decision.
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 6:54 PM Daniel Fishman <
>>> dan.fishman at lphq.org>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >> Would you like me to poll all current members?  All delegates?
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> What would you like the wording to be?
>>> >>> >> >> ---
>>> >>> >> >> Daniel Fishman
>>> >>> >> >> Executive Director
>>> >>> >> >> The Libertarian Party
>>> >>> >> >> Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 7:54 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via
>>> Lnc-business <
>>> >>> >> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >>> Mr Hagan apologies if I was hasty though I do think in this
>>> >>> rapidly
>>> >>> >> >>> changing situation we must be checking our emails hourly.
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> My proposal is to poll only the delegates we are seeking to
>>> >>> overturn.
>>> >>> >> >>> Those credentialed at the session that voted for the in person
>>> >>> >> >>> convention.
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 5:19 PM Richard Longstreth via
>>> >>> Lnc-business <
>>> >>> >> >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> > I am supportive.
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > Richard Longstreth
>>> >>> >> >>> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR,
>>> UT, WA,
>>> >>> WY)
>>> >>> >> >>> > Libertarian National Committee
>>> >>> >> >>> > richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> >>> >> >>> > 931.538.9300
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > Sent from my Mobile Device
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 15:37 Tim Hagan via Lnc-business <
>>> >>> >> >>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > You shouldn't interpret silence as disapproval. Some
>>> people
>>> >>> aren't
>>> >>> >> >>> > > constantly checking their e-mails, could be working, or
>>> still
>>> >>> >> >>> processing
>>> >>> >> >>> > > this news thrown at us last night and have questions.
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > I don't have a problem with taking a poll, unless if we're
>>> >>> going
>>> >>> >> to
>>> >>> >> >>> > > waste time arguing over the wording or who gets polled
>>> (e.g.
>>> >>> all
>>> >>> >> >>> > > delegates, delegates & alternates credentialed in May,
>>> etc.).
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > ---
>>> >>> >> >>> > > Tim Hagan
>>> >>> >> >>> > > Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > On 2020-06-30 14:20, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > A poll could have already gone out from the national
>>> office.
>>> >>> >> Yet
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > except
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > for you - silence on this post.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > That is wrong.  Are we scared of what they might say?  I
>>> >>> >> actually
>>> >>> >> >>> think
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > they might have changed their mind, but I need to know
>>> that
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> >> >>> sure.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > *  In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as
>>> >>> Asperger's
>>> >>> >> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect
>>> >>> inter-personal
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > communication skills in both personal and electronic
>>> >>> arenas.  If
>>> >>> >> >>> anyone
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some
>>> >>> other
>>> >>> >> >>> social
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > faux
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately
>>> and let
>>> >>> me
>>> >>> >> >>> know.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > *
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:05 PM <john.phillips at lp.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Agreed.  I am informally polling my region, but that is
>>> >>> just
>>> >>> >> one
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> region.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> John Phillips
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Cell 217-412-5973
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> On Jun 30, 2020 1:26 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
>>> Lnc-business
>>> >>> <
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Here is something we all need to take seriously.  The
>>> >>> delegates
>>> >>> >> >>> voted
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> for
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> an in person convention.  I don't really think we have
>>> the
>>> >>> >> right
>>> >>> >> >>> to
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> cancel
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> if we have a location which we do.  It is usurping
>>> their
>>> >>> >> decision.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> But
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> they may think differently now.  Can we poll them so we
>>> >>> know
>>> >>> >> what
>>> >>> >> >>> we
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> should
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> do?  This isn't about us.  It is about particular state
>>> >>> chairs
>>> >>> >> in
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> particular regions.  It is about the delegate that
>>> gave us
>>> >>> >> >>> specific
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> marching orders.  Can we find out what THEY want?
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> *  In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as
>>> >>> Asperger's
>>> >>> >> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect
>>> >>> inter-personal
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> communication skills in both personal and electronic
>>> >>> arenas.
>>> >>> >> If
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> anyone
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some
>>> >>> other
>>> >>> >> >>> social
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> faux
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately
>>> and
>>> >>> let me
>>> >>> >> >>> know.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> *
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> --
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> >> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.
>>> If
>>> >>> >> anyone
>>> >>> >> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>>> >>> social
>>> >>> >> faux
>>> >>> >> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >> --
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > *In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> >> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> >> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>>> social
>>> >>> >> faux
>>> >>> >> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > --
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>>> social
>>> >>> faux
>>> >>> >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Jul 1, 2020 12:33 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>  I do not agree with that wording.  It does not answer for me the
>>> >>> question that needs to be answered.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> And frankly it is too late.  Imagine if we spent this time doing
>>> >>> something productive.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>>> >>> faux
>>> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:05 AM <john.phillips at lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Oh for the love of god can we just do the poll.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Poll the delegates from Memorial day weekend.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ask them very simply:
>>> >>> Would you vote to have an in person convention in Orlando July 8th
>>> >>> thru
>>> >>> 12th.
>>> >>> Yes, No, Nota.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> At this point it wont matter with the screwing around going on as we
>>> >>> won't be able to meet in time to cancel even if they all vote to do
>>> >>> so, but
>>> >>> lets do the damn poll so we at least know how bad it is.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> John Phillips
>>> >>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>>> >>> Cell 217-412-5973
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Jul 1, 2020 11:46 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>>> >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Are you weighting the state chairs according to the number of
>>> >>> delegates?
>>> >>> If not, it is not representative.  Colorado has significantly more
>>> >>> delegates than other states.  You cannot use the state chairs as
>>> >>> representing delegates without that calculation.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It is too late.  I asked for this poll early yesterday.  It is
>>> >>> absolutely
>>> >>> unethical at this point to turn people's lives upside down when we
>>> >>> have a
>>> >>> location.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have not agreed with a lot of the criticisms of this body - there
>>> >>> has
>>> >>> been shady business going on and we were dealt a bad hand.  If we
>>> >>> cancel
>>> >>> when we have a location over the will of delegates at convention,
>>> >>> this
>>> >>> body
>>> >>> has no business being anywhere near leadership.  It is wrong, and it
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> robbing people who spent money and a violation of the principle of
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> non-initiation of force.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>>> >>> faux
>>> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:15 AM Richard Longstreth <
>>> >>> richard.longstreth at lp.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > I'm not good with wording polls but if someone is, I'd like to get
>>> this
>>> >>> > started sooner rather than later. I find wisdom in hearing from the
>>> >>> > delegates on this. My state chairs are, almost entirely, saying to
>>> not
>>> >>> > approve a third venue. Absent a poll of delegates, I intend to
>>> >>> represent
>>> >>> > their opinion and trust that they are representing their delegates
>>> to
>>> >>> me. I
>>> >>> > cannot poll everyone in the region myself at this point, let alone
>>> have
>>> >>> > contact info for all of the delegates for speedy communication.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Richard Longstreth
>>> >>> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA,
>>> WY)
>>> >>> > Libertarian National Committee
>>> >>> > richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> >>> > 931.538.9300
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Sent from my Mobile Device
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 20:51 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>>> >>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> As far as wording that is not my call.  But bad wording will kill
>>> the
>>> >>> >> entire usefulness.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 9:50 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> >>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> > The poll should be only those credentialed at the Sunday
>>> session of
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> >> > first part of the convention.
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > They made a decision.
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 6:54 PM Daniel Fishman <
>>> dan.fishman at lphq.org>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >> Would you like me to poll all current members?  All delegates?
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> What would you like the wording to be?
>>> >>> >> >> ---
>>> >>> >> >> Daniel Fishman
>>> >>> >> >> Executive Director
>>> >>> >> >> The Libertarian Party
>>> >>> >> >> Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 7:54 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via
>>> Lnc-business <
>>> >>> >> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >>> Mr Hagan apologies if I was hasty though I do think in this
>>> >>> rapidly
>>> >>> >> >>> changing situation we must be checking our emails hourly.
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> My proposal is to poll only the delegates we are seeking to
>>> >>> overturn.
>>> >>> >> >>> Those credentialed at the session that voted for the in person
>>> >>> >> >>> convention.
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 5:19 PM Richard Longstreth via
>>> >>> Lnc-business <
>>> >>> >> >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> > I am supportive.
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > Richard Longstreth
>>> >>> >> >>> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR,
>>> UT, WA,
>>> >>> WY)
>>> >>> >> >>> > Libertarian National Committee
>>> >>> >> >>> > richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> >>> >> >>> > 931.538.9300
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > Sent from my Mobile Device
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 15:37 Tim Hagan via Lnc-business <
>>> >>> >> >>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > You shouldn't interpret silence as disapproval. Some
>>> people
>>> >>> aren't
>>> >>> >> >>> > > constantly checking their e-mails, could be working, or
>>> still
>>> >>> >> >>> processing
>>> >>> >> >>> > > this news thrown at us last night and have questions.
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > I don't have a problem with taking a poll, unless if we're
>>> >>> going
>>> >>> >> to
>>> >>> >> >>> > > waste time arguing over the wording or who gets polled
>>> (e.g.
>>> >>> all
>>> >>> >> >>> > > delegates, delegates & alternates credentialed in May,
>>> etc.).
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > ---
>>> >>> >> >>> > > Tim Hagan
>>> >>> >> >>> > > Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > On 2020-06-30 14:20, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > A poll could have already gone out from the national
>>> office.
>>> >>> >> Yet
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > except
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > for you - silence on this post.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > That is wrong.  Are we scared of what they might say?  I
>>> >>> >> actually
>>> >>> >> >>> think
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > they might have changed their mind, but I need to know
>>> that
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> >> >>> sure.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > *  In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as
>>> >>> Asperger's
>>> >>> >> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect
>>> >>> inter-personal
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > communication skills in both personal and electronic
>>> >>> arenas.  If
>>> >>> >> >>> anyone
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some
>>> >>> other
>>> >>> >> >>> social
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > faux
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately
>>> and let
>>> >>> me
>>> >>> >> >>> know.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > *
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:05 PM <john.phillips at lp.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Agreed.  I am informally polling my region, but that is
>>> >>> just
>>> >>> >> one
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> region.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> John Phillips
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Cell 217-412-5973
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> On Jun 30, 2020 1:26 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
>>> Lnc-business
>>> >>> <
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Here is something we all need to take seriously.  The
>>> >>> delegates
>>> >>> >> >>> voted
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> for
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> an in person convention.  I don't really think we have
>>> the
>>> >>> >> right
>>> >>> >> >>> to
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> cancel
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> if we have a location which we do.  It is usurping
>>> their
>>> >>> >> decision.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> But
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> they may think differently now.  Can we poll them so we
>>> >>> know
>>> >>> >> what
>>> >>> >> >>> we
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> should
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> do?  This isn't about us.  It is about particular state
>>> >>> chairs
>>> >>> >> in
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> particular regions.  It is about the delegate that
>>> gave us
>>> >>> >> >>> specific
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> marching orders.  Can we find out what THEY want?
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> *  In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as
>>> >>> Asperger's
>>> >>> >> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect
>>> >>> inter-personal
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> communication skills in both personal and electronic
>>> >>> arenas.
>>> >>> >> If
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> anyone
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some
>>> >>> other
>>> >>> >> >>> social
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> faux
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately
>>> and
>>> >>> let me
>>> >>> >> >>> know.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> *
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> --
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> >> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.
>>> If
>>> >>> >> anyone
>>> >>> >> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>>> >>> social
>>> >>> >> faux
>>> >>> >> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >> --
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > *In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> >> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> >> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>>> social
>>> >>> >> faux
>>> >>> >> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > --
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>>> social
>>> >>> faux
>>> >>> >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Jul 1, 2020 12:33 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>  I do not agree with that wording.  It does not answer for me the
>>> >>> question that needs to be answered.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> And frankly it is too late.  Imagine if we spent this time doing
>>> >>> something productive.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>>> >>> faux
>>> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:05 AM <john.phillips at lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Oh for the love of god can we just do the poll.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Poll the delegates from Memorial day weekend.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ask them very simply:
>>> >>> Would you vote to have an in person convention in Orlando July 8th
>>> >>> thru
>>> >>> 12th.
>>> >>> Yes, No, Nota.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> At this point it wont matter with the screwing around going on as we
>>> >>> won't be able to meet in time to cancel even if they all vote to do
>>> >>> so, but
>>> >>> lets do the damn poll so we at least know how bad it is.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> John Phillips
>>> >>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>>> >>> Cell 217-412-5973
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Jul 1, 2020 11:46 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>>> >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Are you weighting the state chairs according to the number of
>>> >>> delegates?
>>> >>> If not, it is not representative.  Colorado has significantly more
>>> >>> delegates than other states.  You cannot use the state chairs as
>>> >>> representing delegates without that calculation.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It is too late.  I asked for this poll early yesterday.  It is
>>> >>> absolutely
>>> >>> unethical at this point to turn people's lives upside down when we
>>> >>> have a
>>> >>> location.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have not agreed with a lot of the criticisms of this body - there
>>> >>> has
>>> >>> been shady business going on and we were dealt a bad hand.  If we
>>> >>> cancel
>>> >>> when we have a location over the will of delegates at convention,
>>> >>> this
>>> >>> body
>>> >>> has no business being anywhere near leadership.  It is wrong, and it
>>> >>> is
>>> >>> robbing people who spent money and a violation of the principle of
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> non-initiation of force.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>>
>>> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>>> >>> faux
>>> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:15 AM Richard Longstreth <
>>> >>> richard.longstreth at lp.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > I'm not good with wording polls but if someone is, I'd like to get
>>> this
>>> >>> > started sooner rather than later. I find wisdom in hearing from the
>>> >>> > delegates on this. My state chairs are, almost entirely, saying to
>>> not
>>> >>> > approve a third venue. Absent a poll of delegates, I intend to
>>> >>> represent
>>> >>> > their opinion and trust that they are representing their delegates
>>> to
>>> >>> me. I
>>> >>> > cannot poll everyone in the region myself at this point, let alone
>>> have
>>> >>> > contact info for all of the delegates for speedy communication.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Richard Longstreth
>>> >>> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA,
>>> WY)
>>> >>> > Libertarian National Committee
>>> >>> > richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> >>> > 931.538.9300
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Sent from my Mobile Device
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 20:51 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>>> >>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >> As far as wording that is not my call.  But bad wording will kill
>>> the
>>> >>> >> entire usefulness.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 9:50 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> >>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> > The poll should be only those credentialed at the Sunday
>>> session of
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> >> > first part of the convention.
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > They made a decision.
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 6:54 PM Daniel Fishman <
>>> dan.fishman at lphq.org>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >> Would you like me to poll all current members?  All delegates?
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> What would you like the wording to be?
>>> >>> >> >> ---
>>> >>> >> >> Daniel Fishman
>>> >>> >> >> Executive Director
>>> >>> >> >> The Libertarian Party
>>> >>> >> >> Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 7:54 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via
>>> Lnc-business <
>>> >>> >> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >>> Mr Hagan apologies if I was hasty though I do think in this
>>> >>> rapidly
>>> >>> >> >>> changing situation we must be checking our emails hourly.
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> My proposal is to poll only the delegates we are seeking to
>>> >>> overturn.
>>> >>> >> >>> Those credentialed at the session that voted for the in person
>>> >>> >> >>> convention.
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 5:19 PM Richard Longstreth via
>>> >>> Lnc-business <
>>> >>> >> >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> > I am supportive.
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > Richard Longstreth
>>> >>> >> >>> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR,
>>> UT, WA,
>>> >>> WY)
>>> >>> >> >>> > Libertarian National Committee
>>> >>> >> >>> > richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> >>> >> >>> > 931.538.9300
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > Sent from my Mobile Device
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 15:37 Tim Hagan via Lnc-business <
>>> >>> >> >>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > You shouldn't interpret silence as disapproval. Some
>>> people
>>> >>> aren't
>>> >>> >> >>> > > constantly checking their e-mails, could be working, or
>>> still
>>> >>> >> >>> processing
>>> >>> >> >>> > > this news thrown at us last night and have questions.
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > I don't have a problem with taking a poll, unless if we're
>>> >>> going
>>> >>> >> to
>>> >>> >> >>> > > waste time arguing over the wording or who gets polled
>>> (e.g.
>>> >>> all
>>> >>> >> >>> > > delegates, delegates & alternates credentialed in May,
>>> etc.).
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > ---
>>> >>> >> >>> > > Tim Hagan
>>> >>> >> >>> > > Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > On 2020-06-30 14:20, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>>> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > A poll could have already gone out from the national
>>> office.
>>> >>> >> Yet
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > except
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > for you - silence on this post.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > That is wrong.  Are we scared of what they might say?  I
>>> >>> >> actually
>>> >>> >> >>> think
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > they might have changed their mind, but I need to know
>>> that
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> >> >>> sure.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > *  In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as
>>> >>> Asperger's
>>> >>> >> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect
>>> >>> inter-personal
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > communication skills in both personal and electronic
>>> >>> arenas.  If
>>> >>> >> >>> anyone
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some
>>> >>> other
>>> >>> >> >>> social
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > faux
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately
>>> and let
>>> >>> me
>>> >>> >> >>> know.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > *
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:05 PM <john.phillips at lp.org>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Agreed.  I am informally polling my region, but that is
>>> >>> just
>>> >>> >> one
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> region.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> John Phillips
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Cell 217-412-5973
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> On Jun 30, 2020 1:26 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
>>> Lnc-business
>>> >>> <
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> Here is something we all need to take seriously.  The
>>> >>> delegates
>>> >>> >> >>> voted
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> for
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> an in person convention.  I don't really think we have
>>> the
>>> >>> >> right
>>> >>> >> >>> to
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> cancel
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> if we have a location which we do.  It is usurping
>>> their
>>> >>> >> decision.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> But
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> they may think differently now.  Can we poll them so we
>>> >>> know
>>> >>> >> what
>>> >>> >> >>> we
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> should
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> do?  This isn't about us.  It is about particular state
>>> >>> chairs
>>> >>> >> in
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> particular regions.  It is about the delegate that
>>> gave us
>>> >>> >> >>> specific
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> marching orders.  Can we find out what THEY want?
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> *  In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as
>>> >>> Asperger's
>>> >>> >> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect
>>> >>> inter-personal
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> communication skills in both personal and electronic
>>> >>> arenas.
>>> >>> >> If
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> anyone
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some
>>> >>> other
>>> >>> >> >>> social
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> faux
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately
>>> and
>>> >>> let me
>>> >>> >> >>> know.
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >> *
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > > >>
>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>> >>> >> >>> --
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> >> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.
>>> If
>>> >>> >> anyone
>>> >>> >> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>>> >>> social
>>> >>> >> faux
>>> >>> >> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>> >> >>>
>>> >>> >> >> --
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > *In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> >>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> >> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> >> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>>> social
>>> >>> >> faux
>>> >>> >> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > --
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> *In Liberty,*
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>>> Syndrome
>>> >>> >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>>> >>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
>>> >>> anyone
>>> >>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>>> social
>>> >>> faux
>>> >>> >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>