[Lnc-business] old meeting minutes Re: LP.org website transition - missing pages (83% data loss)
Caryn Ann Harlos
carynannharlos at gmail.com
Thu Nov 17 19:56:02 EST 2016
Wes and LNC-
What I have is the zip file from the 2006 site which means they were
already certified by the Party Secretary at that time. Their disappearance
from the site was the catalyst for Moulton championing the Bylaw we now
have regarding minutes but the LNC never followed through (apparently).
I will communicate with Alicia privately to see if she will direct their
posting.
Thanks!
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
On Thursday, November 17, 2016, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org> wrote:
> Caryn Ann,
>
> For meeting minutes, I defer to the Secretary about what to post and what
> is official.
>
> So, for the 1989-2003 minutes you mention below, I suggest discussing them
> with Secretary Mattson, and perhaps sending to her what you have and asking
> her to send them to me to be posted. Any time is fine.
>
> Thanks for your assistance retrieving historical minutes.
>
> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314(202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>
> On 11/17/2016 12:27 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> Wes,
>
> Members have been very helpful, and I have received quite a history lesson
> on the background of this Bylaws amendment and the fact that this same
> scenario with the website happened ten years ago.... (not you or anyone
> here ... I know).
>
> So, the background to that Bylaw was the deletion of much of Party
> history, including Minutes from 1989-2003. Our Bylaws require all minutes
> that we have to be posted. I will be scouring Party members to reconstruct
> as much Party history in the form of Minutes that I can.
>
> But meantime, in the site prior to our old one, minutes from 1989-2003
> were listed. They disappeared, but I have an archive file of them.
> Unfortunately they are in .html and not .pdf but we have them.
>
> After we get 2003-present updated I will be requesting the 1989-2003 to be
> posted. They exist, and are needed.
>
> I won't be, as you requested, checking the present progress for a few
> weeks as I understand it is a work in progress.
>
> Please let me know when you want me to send you the 1989-2003 archive.
>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Can someone answer me if we have a zip of the old site? I understand it
>> is running in parallel right now for staff, but I am really concerned that
>> the data will just go poof.
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Member Chuck Moulton helpfully wrote to me to say that the agendas get
>>> subsumed and are recorded in the minutes so that would satisfy the Bylaws
>>> requirement. I think someone could be a pain and argue differently from
>>> the Bylaws that a separate "proposed agenda" and not the final agenda is
>>> what is required (that is the strict language of the Bylaws) but I
>>> certainly think that since the Agendas are reported in the minutes, the
>>> complete spirit and intent is fulfilled as long as the proposed agendas are
>>> included with prompt posting of the meeting notices. (I note that the July
>>> meeting notice was not posted promptly and I don't think the special
>>> session in September was ever publicly noticed other than in this list).
>>>
>>> --
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On another note I see "Bylaws compliance" come up in that discussion.
>>>> The items that are a subject of Bylaws compliance are old minutes and
>>>> agendas. And the Bylaws say those are to be on the "Party website" so
>>>> there is no shunting those off to another site. That is not optional under
>>>> the Bylaws.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, our old site and our new site are not in compliance when it comes
>>>> to Agendas. I highly suggest that the Agendas get added - I don't
>>>> personally see the value, but the Bylaws requires it.
>>>>
>>>> If we are not keeping LPedia, any archive that is Party property is not
>>>> satisfied by being on LPedia. It is great if it is there, but as pointed
>>>> out ,we would not control it.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 3:43 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you Wes for giving that top priority.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other issue, the LP could decide to commit to and keep LPedia.
>>>>> The only reason handing off is on the table is because we let it fall into
>>>>> ruin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Archiving is entirely different from deleting - and it is still
>>>>> available. But I see no reason why the archive cannot be on the LP.org
>>>>> site in its own archive section.
>>>>>
>>>>> Archiving is about designation, organization. and digital location.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is the issue of our SEO on old links.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Absolutely. I think we're actually agreeing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please understand that, professionally, I'm in Enterprise Storage and
>>>>>> Backup. My entire job revolves around data; keeping it available and
>>>>>> secure. I'm not one to "delete" anything, but I'm suggesting that now is
>>>>>> the time to take a look at archiving some stuff. By default, we should
>>>>>> retain all data. However, it doesn't all need to be on LP.org.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do think that leveraging LPedia is one way to handle it. However,
>>>>>> I think LPedia is being handed off to LSLA and I don't think LP National
>>>>>> can control LSLA and ensure Bylaws compliance. (As a side note, I'm an
>>>>>> LPedia contributor and I think it's a good project).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016-11-16 05:30, Starchild wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure Ken, let's take a look. If you or someone else suggest that a
>>>>>> particular document or category of materials be transferred to another
>>>>>> site, and everyone looks at it and agrees it doesn't need to be maintained
>>>>>> on LP.org, fine. But if you try to use the implementation of a site
>>>>>> revamp as an opportunity to by fait accompli bury or trash material that
>>>>>> other people don't want buried or trashed, then the next time you want to
>>>>>> update the website (or anything else), some people are likely to remember
>>>>>> what you tried to do this time and not trust you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>> @StarchildSF
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 15, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Ken Moellman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a new member of the LNC, I wasn't involved in any of the original
>>>>>> decisions. I would have said the same thing then, too. This is the right
>>>>>> time to examine content. Why move over what is unnecessary? Let's take a
>>>>>> look now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There was also talk at one time - several years ago - of splitting
>>>>>> the website into two sites; one all about marketing the LP, and the other
>>>>>> for the back-office and more technical stuff (like bylaws and meeting
>>>>>> minutes and whatnot). Both publicly available, but one being very simple
>>>>>> and the other being more of the document repository and archive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd rather not talk about re-engineering a brand new website with the
>>>>>> new one being wrapped up. But it's all stuff to think about. I do
>>>>>> personally think a sleek "first impression" site might be a worthwhile item
>>>>>> to examine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016-11-15 23:04, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And - as I said. The prediction of members is coming true. It was
>>>>>> said then that this move would be an excuse to delete content. I get
>>>>>> called paranoid.... and now we see an apologetic for just that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is sentiment to delete content and there was "appears" to
>>>>>> be purposeful ideological rebranding of the masthead that should be an LNC
>>>>>> level decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just like members expressed fears about and were assured would not
>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And now are said to be paranoid. Or characterized as hyper critics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2016, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not about the cost of storage, really, but the amount of
>>>>>>> clutter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For instance, somewhere I have every email I have ever sent or
>>>>>>> received (except 94-97). Why? It's not like I look at them. And it makes
>>>>>>> searching for something that much more difficult.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I never quite get around to purging out data I don't need
>>>>>>> anymore because I never have a reason to even get into that old mail. If I
>>>>>>> ever had a reason, I might start cleaning it up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I even went and re-purchased a software license for $25 because it
>>>>>>> wasn't worth my time to go back through all of that data to try to save
>>>>>>> $25.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point is to avoid being a hoarder. While keeping 20-year-old
>>>>>>> newspapers in stacks around the house has no monetary cost, there are other
>>>>>>> hidden and not so hidden costs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While we're going through the house anyway, let's toss some garbage.
>>>>>>> It wasn't garbage 20 years ago, certainly, but now.... well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2016-11-15 18:32, Starchild wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Were we somehow running into space limitations on how much is stored
>>>>>>> at LP.org? I'm not aware of any such issue. Assuming there is no
>>>>>>> urgency on getting older material off the site, I think any content
>>>>>>> proposed to be removed from LP.org should first be submitted to the
>>>>>>> LNC, so that any of us can flag for discussion any material that we
>>>>>>> *don't* believe should be transferred (what you said about the
>>>>>>> decision being "conscientiously made"). LPedia.org would be a
>>>>>>> natural place to archive older, less useful material, but that site needs
>>>>>>> to be made fully functional and accessible. Unless there is some kind of
>>>>>>> urgent technical need, I don't think anything should be removed from
>>>>>>> LP.org, or not ported over to the revamped site, until it has an
>>>>>>> immediate new home where members can readily access it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>> @StarchildSF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 15, 2016, at 2:53 PM, Ken Moellman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is a question of whether or not we should let some data
>>>>>>> expire. At some point, the value of the information decreases to a point
>>>>>>> that it is practically useless. At that point, it should be archived, but
>>>>>>> not kept on the main site. But what goes away is a decision that should be
>>>>>>> conscientiously made by someone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is the old website still hiding somewhere where the LNC members can
>>>>>>> access it? It might be good to dump every node from the old Drupal site
>>>>>>> and have some decision-makers determine the value of each page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wes - My 3PM went long and I have another engagement until 8PM. If
>>>>>>> you're around after 8:30PM Eastern feel free to give me a call.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2016-11-15 17:06, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam - while clever - there is absolutely zero reason we should have
>>>>>>> data loss simply because we have a new site. That must be a conscious LNC
>>>>>>> decision. I do not intend on letting this drop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Further - and as you know because I was one of the loudest
>>>>>>> complaining members - members were assured that there would be no content
>>>>>>> culling. Members then expressed skepticism at that promise and felt they
>>>>>>> were being a fed a load of hooey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's not show that they in fact were.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The look of the site is nice. The ideological rebranding and the
>>>>>>> loss of content is precisely what members were promised would not happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unless the LNC makes some decision on this to settle it- and then
>>>>>>> members can act accordingly - I have zero intention of letting this drop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is unacceptable and against all assurances given to our members.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will note well that a lot of that content was generated and put up
>>>>>>> by paid staff. Paid by members. And now gone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Grumpy cat says nope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To answer Ken's question. Unless we are going to concede the LNC
>>>>>>> and website committee lied to members, then no one can make a decision to
>>>>>>> omit content. And in any event that is not APRC. APRC could potentially
>>>>>>> require that this Bylaws violation be done before anything else. But the
>>>>>>> rest is outside their scope.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is an LNC level decision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just like the purposeful masthead rebranding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2016, Sam Goldstein <
>>>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here is the most recent version of the Policy Manual that I have on
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> computer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And yes, every single document generated by a member of the party
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> the past 40 years must be on the web site for total transparency.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Ken Moellman <
>>>>>>>> ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wes, as soon as I get done with this 3PM call I'll reach out to
>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2016-11-15 14:18, Wes Benedict wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ken, the technical issues with the website definitely have not
>>>>>>>>> been resolved.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>>>>>>>>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314(202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>>>>>>>>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/15/2016 2:09 PM, Ken Moellman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Caryn, et al -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe the technical issues have been resolved with the website
>>>>>>>>> at this point. Things look like they're moving pretty quickly and cleanly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know there are issues with the new website regarding content,
>>>>>>>>> and we definitely need to resolve them. Certainly we need to put meeting
>>>>>>>>> minutes back online, in compliance with the bylaws. Assuming the technical
>>>>>>>>> issues are resoled, I'm sure that will happen in the near future.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But this brings up a larger issue: does everything from before
>>>>>>>>> need to be there? How far back do we go? Should every bit of content from
>>>>>>>>> the old site be available on the new site?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, I still can't find the Policy Manual, so I don't know if
>>>>>>>>> APRC need to approve additions and/or subtractions from the website. If
>>>>>>>>> not the APRC, who decides when data expires?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2016-11-15 13:56, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No word yet on this missing data I suppose?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was directed to a link I needed for research
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business/attachments/20161117/fc26af48/attachment-0002.html>
More information about the Lnc-business
mailing list