[Lnc-business] Satanic Post - LNC Input Requested

Thu Apr 20 09:18:08 EDT 2017

Alicia and Daniel, thank you for your thoughtful and detailed comments on our exploratory committee scope, subject matter and prerogatives.

First a comment on the offending Satanic Temple meme that I finally viewed for the first time last night. Coupled with the second-hand information that the Satanic Temple uses their “belief system” as a satirical tax dodge, and ignoring for a moment the obvious Holy week timing faux pas, I am trying to figure out what is so philosophically offensive about the meme. Is it because it infers the belief of some Libertarians that we own our own bodies (property rights) as opposed to God owning our bodies? Help me understand in a non-hysterical, non-hand-wringing way from a logical factual perspective, where the philosophical beef is in this hubbub. Obviously, the religious belief systems of some, even if admittedly in this case a satirical tax dodge, may be offensive to a few. So What? Is the real problem not the philosophical dogma questions but our undeniable dysfunctional personal and institutional Libertarian Party messaging strategies?

These religious dogma questions notwithstanding, I would agree with Daniel, Alicia and many other LNC members and Libertarians that the bigger issue is why the religious freedom meme series was there in the first place and for what purpose in light of our top priorities of creating a winning messaging strategy, getting Libertarians elected and putting the statists out of business. Religious freedom is obviously an important part of the Libertarianism philosophical foundation and a timely issue to core Libertarians who understand the importance despite our dysfunctional internal and external institutional messaging strategies. But how far down the list of priorities is the religious freedom issue to non-Libertarians that we want to connect with?

First, the timely positive outcome of this hubbub is that we are moving toward better scope control and accountability of our various outreach messaging outlets. We can further turn this unfortunate incident into a long-overdue opportunity to clean up our incoherent messaging strategies.

The bottom line from my perspective is that religious freedom initiatives are better handled in private discussions with core Libertarians. Furthermore, the broader audience that we are trying to connect with to achieve our long-term goal of freedom for all would probably put the religious freedom issue well below the immediate concerns that define where they are at in their personal lives and family circumstances. To connect with the broader audience, we need to get off our soapboxes and reach out with targeted, tested leading questions that connect first at the emotional level with those who do not yet share our Libertarian values and goals.

Once we figure out, for example, that African-American women between the ages of 30 and 50 are primarily concerned about their sons not being murdered (targeting) and we determine what leading questions will connect with them (testing), we can work on our messaging techniques to leverage their immediate emotional concerns, plant seeds of doubt in their statist solutions and open the door for them to ask us for more information about how Libertarians would go about surmounting the immediate obstacles faced by their segment of society. Let’s explore the art of “winning hearts and minds, not arguments” as a much more effective messaging strategy to accomplish our end goal of freedom, nothing more, nothing less.

I look forward to working with all of you to turn this obvious outreach misstep into a tremendous opportunity and positive turning point for the Libertarian Party as we build a winning messaging strategy.

Thoughts?

~David

Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention

~David Pratt Demarest

LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)

Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee

Cell:      402-981-6469

Home: 402-493-0873

From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Hayes
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 5:11 AM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Satanic Post - LNC Input Requested

Just speaking for myself,  I think that as part of the process there may come some recommendations out of the newly formed committee regarding content in the rather broad sense, but that remains to be seen.

In this series, "FreeToBelieve", people that start to analyze it may notice a disproportionate representation on a per capita basis.

You have 2 memes for an organization that has less than .01% of the population of the United States involved with it. You have zero posts that clearly represent the organization that 70% of the population is affiliated with. 

 I just can't help but think that that looks like it favors one over the other.  The fact that the ONLY one that had more than one meme presented was the one that represents that one mentioning the Satanic Temple could seem like the LP favors that ideology over the others.  That's a problem.  There still exists the problem that there were belief systems that were not represented here in the series.

I still think the right thing to do is to remove the whole thing.  

Daniel Hayes

LNC At Large Member

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:23 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com <mailto:agmattson at gmail.com> > wrote:

There are certainly process problems, but I'll comment on the content as well.

I don't understand what the #FreeToBelieve series, at least the way it has been approached, is supposed to accomplish.

The value of freedom of religion is not about what various religions have in common, but in how they are DIFFERENT.  The value is that two people can have polar opposite religious beliefs but still live together in a free country.  If I believe it's a sin to wear the color red, and you believe it's a sin to not wear the color red, guess what?  We both can live side by side in a libertarian society.  I'll wear blue, and you'll wear red, and neither of us imprisons the other over it.

It's one thing if we make a graphic symbolizing that people with widely varying religious beliefs are part of the LP...though perhaps we should avoid turning their religious symbols upside down in the graphic...that cover pic is gone now.

This series has started quoting religious texts, however, and posting them to make some kind of a political statement.  Religion and politics don't mix.  We're playing with fire, and it's not surprising that we got burned.  Quote something out of context, and your target audience is offended that you're twisting context to try to tell them their God wants them to be Libertarian.  The word "freedom" in a religious text may not mean freedom like the LP talks about...it may at times mean freedom from a previous oppressor...or freedom from consequences of sin...  What if it's a figurative passage, or a parable, or someone's dream sequence, and we just yank it out of place to use it for our agenda?

Religion is a set of standards that you impose on yourself voluntarily.  Politics is about a set of standards that you are willing to use the force of government to impose on others.  (For the anarchists in the LP, that's a null set.)

Sometimes there are overlapping areas of agreement between your religion and your politics, but those conclusions are arrived at for COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REASONS.  Maybe your religion teaches "Thou shall not commit murder" because God said so, and there's eternal punishment to consider.  Libertarians say murder is unacceptable because it is the ultimate initiation of force which permanently deprives the victim of all of their rights.  Completely different reasons for the same conclusion.

When we start quoting religious texts as some sort of support for our political views, what is that supposed to mean???

Sure, there are some religions that call for theocracies in which the religious and political standards are identical, but we're not advocating for that, right?  So why are we quoting religious texts at all?

There are a very large number of quotes from the same religious texts that we would not post.  We're not going to post, "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy", are we?  (Using Ten Commandment examples just because so many are at least familiar with them.)  They may be a fine way for a person to choose to live for themselves, but to enforce that standard on others deprives them of the freedom to have a different religious view.  Good for religion.  Not so much for libertarian politics.

Why even go there?  It's completely unnecessary to wander into such dangerous territory, and religion is not the basis for our politics.

-Alicia

On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 6:44 AM, Arvin Vohra <votevohra at gmail.com <mailto:votevohra at gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi All -

I'd like to request LNC oversight on the Satanic Temple posting as part of the #FreeToBelieve series. I don't want to see our volunteers raked over the coals for issues related to the LNC or APRC. 

Is a Satanic Temple Posting:

1. Fine on any day of the year

2. Never ok

3. Generally ok, but not during a religious holiday of a conflicting religion.

If future posts go up, I'd like it to be very clear on what the LNC views are, so that volunteers are not blamed for our decisions.

My view: I don't think that this is a battle worth picking. You can already be as Satanic as you want in America, so we're not gaining anything. I'd much rather focus on repealing laws and taxes that exist.

Personally, I have no opposition to the Satanic Temple. As part of an overall study of religion, I have read sections of various "Satanic" books, and written in non-political areas on mythology parallels between Prometheus in Greek Mythology and Lucifer in the Judaeo-Christian tradition. Realistically, I'll probably look into the religious legal protections they have, based on the comments by the chair, to see how others can do the same. I'd love to see an America in which every single house and apartment building is legally seen as a religious location that pays no property taxes. 

-Arvin

-- 

Arvin Vohra

www.VoteVohra.com <http://www.VoteVohra.com> 
VoteVohra at gmail.com <mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com> 
(301) 320-3634 <tel:(301)%20320-3634> 

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