[Lnc-business] Fwd: [Lnc-votes] Resignation From LPF

David Demarest dprattdemarest at gmail.com
Fri Oct 27 14:39:04 EDT 2017 

Thank you, Caryn Ann! I am well aware of that risk.

On Oct 27, 2017 1:33 PM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Prediction: those who speak out here will be targeted.
>
> Keeps others from speaking out.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:24 PM David Demarest <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I agree that there are limits to what the LNC can do in this matter. What
>> the LNC can do is inspire and empower individual Libertarians to be fully
>> informed with a full set of principles and accurate facts so they
>> individually use voluntary economic and social ostracism in an appropriate,
>> just and effective manner to deal with thinly-disguised authoritarian
>> threats exemplified by the nonsense in Florida.
>>
>> Physical threats are a serious matter that cuts to the core of what
>> Libertarianism stands for. Political correctness and ridicule of those who
>> take a stand against bigotry is not a principled answer.
>>
>> Regardless, threats or no threats, memes or no memes, I will speak out at
>> every opportunity against mindless bigotry that goes hand-in-hand with
>> authoritarianism and nationalism, as I am doing now. We all have a choice
>> on how we deal with ethno-nationalism. I hope for the sake of the LP and
>> the Libertarian movement that we individual Libertarians choose wisely.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>
>> On Oct 27, 2017 12:52 PM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Larry I don't disagree with you.  That has been my position.  And unless
>>> we want to disaffiliate it's like pulling a gun.  Don't do that unless you
>>> intend to shoot.
>>>
>>> I just wanted to be clear that I've been reading material, also
>>> comparing it with my past experiences, and then that "response" by Ramsey
>>> and I'm not buying that there isn't a problem.  What gets done must be
>>> spearheaded by Florida Libertarians.
>>>
>>> I'm not fooled IOW.  And honestly I came to the realization of how toxic
>>> this may be, particularly to women in the Party, who would leave silently.
>>> I asked myself if I would stick around that.  The answer is not an
>>> unequivocal yes.
>>>
>>> I stand by my comments that there is a bullying and threatening issue
>>> with the far left as well.  There was a threat to bring ANTIFA to our
>>> convention.  There is condemnation of the idea of property ownership and we
>>> don't have to look too far into history to see where that leads.  And
>>> violence has been discussed.  I see it too.  And believe we have a shameful
>>> reluctance to call that what it is.  It's not a matter of equivalency or
>>> comparing thresholds of damage.  It's about defending libertarian ideas.
>>>
>>>
>>> The fact is that these two sides feed on each other.  The existence of
>>> one gives the other propaganda.
>>>
>>> We must continue to keep on the northward libertarian route.
>>>
>>> But make no mistake- there IS an ethno-nationalist issue in Florida.
>>>
>>> Read Ramsey's response.  If you do not see manipulative gas lighting
>>> then you lack discernment.
>>>
>>> If all we can do is personally say to those complaining- yes I see what
>>> you are saying.  You are not imagining things- that is valuable.
>>>
>>> We are a limited power body.  We can resist the urge to think we can or
>>> should intervene in everything.  But that does not mean not seeing the
>>> thing.  I see it.
>>>
>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:32 AM Daniel Hayes <danielehayes at icloud.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sagely spoken once again my friend.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Daniel
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Larry Sharpe <lsharpe at neo-sage.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My two cents,
>>>>
>>>> Ed and Steven both say leave it alone. So, leave it alone.
>>>>
>>>> They may be wrong, but the odds of them being wrong are far lower than
>>>> the odds of our meddling making things worse.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2017 12:22, "David Demarest" <dprattdemarest at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Caryn Ann, there sure is a lot of smoke in Florida. It is
>>>>> time to stop pooh-poohing this thinly-disguised bigotry, ethno-nationalism
>>>>> and power-grab threat to both Florida and national Libertarianism; stop
>>>>> sweeping it under the rug and take a serious look at the matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Disagreements on the application of the NAP, while a serious matter,
>>>>> are understandable. Disagreements on mindless bigotry and
>>>>> ethno-nationalism, however, will be a malignant cancer on the LP and
>>>>> Libertarian movement if not addressed promptly and assertively.
>>>>>
>>>>> I reiterate, not tolerating intolerance is NOT bigotry. Tolerance in
>>>>> defense of intolerance is a VICE. This should be a no-brainer to all
>>>>> Libertarians. Bigots and ethno-nationalist power-grabbers must not be part
>>>>> of our target market. They will only use us to achieve their nefarious
>>>>> goals that will undermine our credibility. Like Wes and Nick, I ask
>>>>> pseudo-Libertarians who think otherwise to promptly take their political
>>>>> business elsewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> We can follow the lead of Nick and Wes and use the tool of voluntary
>>>>> individual economic and social ostracism to bring this insidious threat to
>>>>> a screeching halt. Disaffiliation, while a last resort, can be an effective
>>>>> institutional tool of economic and social ostracism, fully consistent with
>>>>> even a strict interpretation of the NAP, to effectively deal with this
>>>>> potentially lethal threat to Libertarianism.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is time to clean this mindless evil out of the LP and Libertarian
>>>>> movement before it gets out of control, impacts our political agenda and
>>>>> undermines our heroic goal of freedom, nothing more, nothing less.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 27, 2017 9:29 AM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just read a "response" by Ryan Ramsey and it has all the marks of
>>>>>> an aggressive gas lighting campaign.  After I read that letter, my "knower"
>>>>>> knew that there are too many testimonies that ring true.  There is a very
>>>>>> manipulative game going on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is definitely something very toxic going on in Florida.  I am
>>>>>> going to be speaking to my Region 1 Chairs about this as I make my
>>>>>> quarterly conferences with them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:52 AM Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there is clear evidence of (1) a current Florida LP state-level
>>>>>>> official making clearly racist statements, or clear and credible threats of
>>>>>>> violence, and (2) the Florida LP leadership being aware of this and taking
>>>>>>> no action whatsoever to condemn it or distance the Florida LP from it, I
>>>>>>> think perhaps a letter of concern from the LNC would be in order. If the
>>>>>>> Florida LP leadership offered no reasonable response to such a letter and
>>>>>>> continued to not take any remedial action, especially if it became clear
>>>>>>> that this was part of a pattern of ignoring racism or serious
>>>>>>> Non-Aggression Principle violations from state leaders, then I would be
>>>>>>> ready to entertain a motion to disaffiliate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But – and I confess I have not read all the links and background on
>>>>>>> this – I'm not sure even the first condition stated above has been met. My
>>>>>>> personal belief is that Ryan Ramsey likely does hold bigoted white
>>>>>>> supremacist type views, but while the the evidence for this may be
>>>>>>> cumulatively compelling (walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc.), it
>>>>>>> also seems to be largely circumstantial. I looked at the American Guard
>>>>>>> website for instance, and didn't find a "smoking gun" of explicitly racist
>>>>>>> material. Now I do think Ramsey's comments about LP chair Nick Sarwark are
>>>>>>> reprehensible and without merit. A sample (more at
>>>>>>> http://archive.is/EMZPY#selection-233.0-233.110):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *"*Nick Sarwark, National Chairman of the Libertarian Party, is the
>>>>>>> poster boy for the Cultural Marxist idiocy that keeps us relegated to
>>>>>>> single digit election returns... *Any question as to whether Mr.
>>>>>>> Sarwark was a lover of liberty, or a Cultural Marxist attempting to hold
>>>>>>> back the advance of the  Libertarian Party, were answered when he made
>>>>>>> national news repeating lies about Milo Yiannopoulos, subject of the
>>>>>>> violence in Berkley, when he insinuated bloodshed to stop free speech was
>>>>>>> 'understandable'... **For those who did not attend the National
>>>>>>> Convention last spring in Orlando, let me tell you how Nick Sarwark was
>>>>>>> re-elected as LP Chairman. He collected a group of loyalists around himself
>>>>>>> to feign running as opposition. Then at the last minute, on the Convention
>>>>>>> floor, they dropped their candidacy and threw their support to the man
>>>>>>> trying to do the Weimar Republic over, as if the Communists will win this
>>>>>>> time. This is why many are starting to  refer to him as 'Nazi Nick',
>>>>>>> despite his Jewish religion. His ignorance of history is astounding,
>>>>>>> especially considering his heritage. It is an ignorance common among the
>>>>>>> products of compulsory government education camps, but unacceptable for
>>>>>>> anyone wishing to lead the third largest political party in the greatest
>>>>>>> nation on the planet. The smug manner in which the leftist infection tries
>>>>>>> to paint President Trump as Hitler is the crowning jewel of their
>>>>>>> ignorance. It is time for a quick history lesson on Germany prior to World
>>>>>>> War Two. Trump is not Hitler, but people like Sarwark are ushering the next
>>>>>>> Hitler in... Behold Nick Sarwark, who claims to lead the party of
>>>>>>> individual freedom, as he ushers his own Jewish people toward the boxcars.
>>>>>>> Nazi Nick, the ultimate in self hatred."*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even if the rumor about Milo Yiannopoulis planning to "out"
>>>>>>> undocumented students during his speech at UC Berkeley, which Yiannopoulis
>>>>>>> ultimately did not do and denied intending to do, was false – I'm not sure
>>>>>>> it was; I wouldn't be surprised if Yiannopoulis, via associates, was the
>>>>>>> source of the rumor, even if he never intended to carry out any such action
>>>>>>> – the point is that if student protesters heard the rumor and sincerely
>>>>>>> believed it, there's an argument to be made that their use of violence to
>>>>>>> stop him from speaking arguably was, to the best of their knowledge at the
>>>>>>> time, a legitimate defensive measure designed to prevent people being
>>>>>>> forcibly kidnapped and deported by the State. I'm not sure Nick intended to
>>>>>>> go that far; the word "understandable" as he used it is somewhat ambiguous
>>>>>>> and does not necessarily imply approval.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regardless, any LP member whose views are so badly skewed as to
>>>>>>> publish a written public article condemning as solidly libertarian a party
>>>>>>> leader as the current LP national chair as a "cultural Marxist" and among
>>>>>>> those who is "usher(ing) his own Jewish people toward the boxcars", is not
>>>>>>> somebody I personally want serving in the party leadership. Coupled with
>>>>>>> the threats that Paul Stanton and Paul Frankel report Ramsey making against
>>>>>>> them and against members of Stanton's family, and Ramsey's connections to
>>>>>>> groups like Rock Against Communism and the American Guard, if I sat on the
>>>>>>> Florida LP Executive Committee and had been voting, I believe I would have
>>>>>>> voted to remove Ramsey from that body if such action is consistent with the
>>>>>>> Florida LP's bylaws. But I don't know whether there was a bylaws issue, or
>>>>>>> why the ExCom majority voted down Paul Stanton's motion for removal. My
>>>>>>> suspicion that they may have made what I believe to be a bad decision isn't
>>>>>>> enough for me to support the LNC formally weighing in or taking action
>>>>>>> vis-a-vis the Florida LP, short of the conditions I describe in the first
>>>>>>> paragraph above being met. Short of removal, I don't know what other steps,
>>>>>>> if any, they have taken, or may yet take.
>>>>>>> But if the LNC does not make any direct formal response to the
>>>>>>> Florida situation, this still leaves the question of what else we can do
>>>>>>> with regard to the broader issue of ethno-nationalism seeping into the
>>>>>>> Libertarian Party. It's been pointed out that the LNC has recently issued a
>>>>>>> strong statement against racism and bigotry; the value of issuing another
>>>>>>> such statement at this time seems dubious. However while we've recently
>>>>>>> addressed the "ethno" aspect of the ethno-nationalist problem, I don't
>>>>>>> think we've adequately addressed nationalism, which is much more pervasive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nationalism is itself, I believe, a form of bigotry akin to racism.
>>>>>>> It is an anti-individualist philosophy which, translated into government
>>>>>>> policy, results in virtually every national government in the world
>>>>>>> wrongfully discriminating against people on the basis of innate
>>>>>>> characteristics beyond their control (where they were born or who their
>>>>>>> parents were). It also tends to lead people to take un-libertarian
>>>>>>> positions, such as being willing to initiate force against immigrants,
>>>>>>> supporting protectionism, and accepting various rights violations in the
>>>>>>> name of "national security". Nationalism can also serve as a cover for
>>>>>>> racism, because nationalist and racist views often dovetail when it comes
>>>>>>> to issues like immigration, racial profiling in the name of "national
>>>>>>> security", the U.S. government killing people in other countries, etc. But
>>>>>>> despite being as repugnant as racism, nationalism has so far largely gotten
>>>>>>> a pass from society including from many (L)ibertarians. If we are serious
>>>>>>> about discouraging the sort of views that are disrupting the Florida LP,
>>>>>>> the LNC issuing a strong statement against nationalism seems like a very
>>>>>>> good idea, and I would support such a resolution. I think we should also
>>>>>>> pay more attention to how our messaging and other practices (e.g. use of
>>>>>>> the American flag) can subtly legitimize and reinforce nationalism in the
>>>>>>> party.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                                    ((( starchild )))
>>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>                          RealReform at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>                                  (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>>                                     @StarchildSF
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with Ken.  And the RR from that area gave their input.  I
>>>>>>> can tell you no Region 1 state would welcome this interference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So pre-empttively since we seem so eager to get involved in
>>>>>>> affiliates - this RR says don't mess with Region 1 states.  They handle
>>>>>>> their own business.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm hoping Oregon gets on mended terms with National.  This isn't
>>>>>>> the way to show states we learned our lesson from that mess.  Their Board
>>>>>>> voted and unless we think the whole of that leadership are secret nazis
>>>>>>> then we have no right or authority to be second-guessing their decision for
>>>>>>> their state.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I routinely get complaints about such and such going on here and
>>>>>>> there.  I listen, tell them their rights, and say it is for their state to
>>>>>>> handle.  Wes brilliant release said what we needed to.  I wish we would say
>>>>>>> the same to the violent left.  Violence against persons and property is
>>>>>>> unacceptable.  Bigotry and identity collectivism of all kinds is
>>>>>>> unacceptable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Ken Moellman <ken at moellman.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A disaffiliation motion is way too extreme.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the statement made by either Wes or Nick - I forget who
>>>>>>>> made it - about racism and whatnot being not welcome in the party was
>>>>>>>> enough from LP National.  Disaffiliation would take a serious infraction,
>>>>>>>> IMO.  That a party has internal issues is nothing new and nothing to get
>>>>>>>> involved with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:19 PM, David Demarest <
>>>>>>>> dpdemarest at centurylink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree that a disaffiliation investigation motion would open a
>>>>>>>>> can of worms. Perhaps the existing motion calling for a resolution is the
>>>>>>>>> wiser choice. However, it is a catch-22. How can we justify the resolution
>>>>>>>>> if we do not do the necessary due diligence investigation?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ~David Pratt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom Un-Convention*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ~David Pratt Demarest
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roads to Freedom Foundation, Founder
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LSLA Vice-Chair
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LPNE State Central Committee, Secretary
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LPRC Board Member, Nebraska State Coordinator
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David.Demarest at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Secretary at LPNE.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> DPDemarest at centurylink.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> DPrattDemarest at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Joshua Katz
>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 25, 2017 1:52 PM
>>>>>>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [Lnc-business] Fwd: [Lnc-votes] Resignation From LPF
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you to both Steven, Paul Frankel, and Tom Knapp for
>>>>>>>>> inserting much-needed facts into this discussion.  In light of these facts,
>>>>>>>>> I think vigilance is called for, but do not think it is appropriate, at
>>>>>>>>> this time, to make a relevant motion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will note, without getting into the weeds, that while I won't
>>>>>>>>> quibble with facts alleged about Florida, I would disagree with some of the
>>>>>>>>> statements made about certain national groups, or in other ways about the
>>>>>>>>> dangerous movement we face.  I think they are more dangerous than they've
>>>>>>>>> been described here, and while in the past I considered them individually
>>>>>>>>> dangerous, I now consider them to be an organizational threat - and a
>>>>>>>>> threat to the modern world which made freedom possible.  (Murray Rothbard
>>>>>>>>> pointed out, in 1965, that freedom was made possible by the overthrow of
>>>>>>>>> the Ancien Regime, and I think the pre-modern thinking on the right, and
>>>>>>>>> the post-modern thinking on the left, are both creating an environment
>>>>>>>>> where it can return.)  I consider them, at the moment, the most immediate
>>>>>>>>> threat to freedom in our culture, since they have organized and gone beyond
>>>>>>>>> being individual cranks - they now are making moves on the world of ideas,
>>>>>>>>> which controls the rest.  And remember that far too many people associate
>>>>>>>>> us with them.  The Charlottesville morons (if it brings them any comfort, I
>>>>>>>>> think I speak on behalf of all Jews when I say that none of us desire to be
>>>>>>>>> mouth-breathing bigots carrying tiki torches, so their fears about us
>>>>>>>>> replacing them are misplaced) used a banner which was based on the Albany
>>>>>>>>> Plan of Union banner - and one of the snake pieces was labeled L.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In any event, as concerns Florida, I think the analysis is pretty
>>>>>>>>> straightforward, although the determinations are not.  Is there a problem?
>>>>>>>>> I am convinced there is, and I am convinced we should not ignore it and
>>>>>>>>> blind ourselves to it.  Another party tried that approach, as well as
>>>>>>>>> "well, we'll bring them along for their votes on the things we agree
>>>>>>>>> about," and now is largely unable to get candidates who actually favor its
>>>>>>>>> basic ideas through primaries.  The next question, the crucial question, is
>>>>>>>>> - can the affiliate fix it?  (A related, but somewhat different question,
>>>>>>>>> is whether it wants to.)  I think the answer to that is yes.  There is, of
>>>>>>>>> course, a tipping point - a point where rather than try to fix the problem,
>>>>>>>>> good people simply leave, and the ability to fix the problem goes away.
>>>>>>>>> And good people are, it seems clear to me, leaving.  I still do not think
>>>>>>>>> the tipping point has been reached, though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At-Large Representative,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>>> From: <travellingcircus at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:21 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Resignation From LPF
>>>>>>>>> To: "Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org" <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>,
>>>>>>>>> Independent Political Report <independent-political-report@
>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com>, "iprtwo at googlegroups.com" <
>>>>>>>>> iprtwo at googlegroups.com>, erin.adams at lp.org, Whitney Bilyeu <
>>>>>>>>> whitneycb76 at gmail.com>, Joshua Katz <joshua.katz at lp.org>, David
>>>>>>>>> Demarest <David.Demarest at lp.org>, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>> daniel.hayes at lp.org>, Ed Marsh <ednmax at yahoo.com>, Steven
>>>>>>>>> Nekhaila <Steven.Nekhaila at gmail.com>, Starchild <
>>>>>>>>> sfdreamer at earthlink.net>, Paul Stanton <paul at stanton.name>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm writing to LNC members who commented in this thread plus
>>>>>>>>> Whitney as my rep, IPR teamCCed for background, and Paul Stanton CCed. If
>>>>>>>>> any of the LNC members copied feel it's worth sharing with the rest of LNC
>>>>>>>>> please do so. If not, my feelings won't be hurt either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not going to comment on what if anything LNC should do, just
>>>>>>>>> lay out the facts as I know them,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just before Paul Stanton resigned from LPF exec comm he submitted
>>>>>>>>> the following to that body (see links embedded in original):
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/embed/#!topic/lpfec/7Ii6WazfTGo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tonight's motion 520 is mainly regarding threats and advocacy of
>>>>>>>>> violence against me and others, including a current US Senate candidate and
>>>>>>>>> former rules chair of the Libertarian Party of Miami-Dade.  Additionally,
>>>>>>>>> he is a leader in a white supremacist group, the American Guard
>>>>>>>>> <http://adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists>,
>>>>>>>>> a spin-off group of the violent anti-immigrant Sons of Odin - founded by Brien
>>>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/brien-james> (who
>>>>>>>>> also founded the Vinlanders - a Neo-Nazi group responsible for dozens of
>>>>>>>>> murders).  The crossed cleavers in their shield is a reference to 19th century
>>>>>>>>> anti-immigrant gang leader, Bill the Butcher
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Poole> - an advocacy of
>>>>>>>>> violence against immigrants.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan Ramsey himself covers white nationalist "Rock Against
>>>>>>>>> Communism <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism>"
>>>>>>>>> bands like S <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver>crewdriver
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver>, and advocates for Operation
>>>>>>>>> Werewolf <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werwolf>.  He has called
>>>>>>>>> the LNC Chair Nick Sarwark "Nazi Nick," citing Nick's Jewish religion, then
>>>>>>>>> blaming people "disingenuous political leaders like Nick Sarwark" for the
>>>>>>>>> rise of the Nazi Party and ultimately the Holocaust.
>>>>>>>>> <http://archive.is/EMZPY>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here are some links which I will be referencing tonight at the
>>>>>>>>> meeting:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/libertarianheathen/photos/a.
>>>>>>>>> 1959795147587414.1073741828.1954915414742054/2002228056677456/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/libertarianheathen/photos/a.1959795147587414.1073741828.1954915414742054/2002228056677456/%3Cbr+/%3E>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-
>>>>>>>>> hardcore-white-supremacists
>>>>>>>>> http://libertarianheathen.com
>>>>>>>>> http://archive.is/t5jC7
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bottom line, I am sick of seeing threats of violence against good
>>>>>>>>> Libertarians, and others disassociating in disgust over the intimidation
>>>>>>>>> tactics, dehumanization, and white supremacist rhetoric being employed by
>>>>>>>>> leaders within our party.  If we allow one of our leaders to threaten our
>>>>>>>>> membership while having the ability to stop it, voters and donors have no
>>>>>>>>> reason to take our party seriously, as we clearly do not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The delegates very clearly gave us the ability to remove people
>>>>>>>>> from the EC for violation of the non-aggression pledge.  Tonight we must
>>>>>>>>> decide if we will take that task seriously or not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In liberty,
>>>>>>>>> *Paul Stanton*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Folowup message: *
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [          ]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Info about the 1930s German Nazi history book that Ryan Ramsey
>>>>>>>>> took his meme from:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://spartacus-educational.com/Jewish_Children.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frankel: I can also attest to the threats coming from Ramsey, his
>>>>>>>>> former close associate Augustus Invictus and others in their circle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Back in April of this year, on a tip from IPR site owner Warren
>>>>>>>>> Redlich, I published http://independentpoliticalreport.
>>>>>>>>> com/2017/04/police-report-augustus-invictus-accused-of-
>>>>>>>>> domestic-violence-sexual-assault-kidnapping/  detailing that Mr.
>>>>>>>>> Invictus' ex-fiancee made these very serious allegations against him. I
>>>>>>>>> confirmed with the police department in question that the referenced report
>>>>>>>>> had in fact been filed. I made no comment in the article about the truth or
>>>>>>>>> falsehood of the allegations. Any comments of opinions I made in the
>>>>>>>>> comment section on the same basis as any of our other readers and clearly
>>>>>>>>> marked as opinion. Notably, the complaintant and associate of hers also
>>>>>>>>> reported death threats at the time from Invictus and Ramsey, who have since
>>>>>>>>> then (very recently) had a falling out. Witness tampering was also one of
>>>>>>>>> the allegations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also *republished* http://independentpoliticalreport.
>>>>>>>>> com/2017/04/libertarians-united-against-fascism-to-the-
>>>>>>>>> cowardly-collaborators-of-the-libertarian-party-of-florida-
>>>>>>>>> and-a-call-to-action-against-them/
>>>>>>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/libertarians-united-against-fascism-to-the-cowardly-collaborators-of-the-libertarian-party-of-florida-and-a-call-to-action-against-them/>
>>>>>>>>> (note that the original and its website were taken down so the images no
>>>>>>>>> longer appear; scroll down to see the section about Ryan Ramsey as the last
>>>>>>>>> part of the article).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As a response, 1) Augustus Invictus wrote me and Warren Redlich,
>>>>>>>>> insinuating possible legal action and hinting at other forms of
>>>>>>>>> retaliation; he later wrote another former associate of his, Raquel Okyay,
>>>>>>>>> which was later forwarded to me, naming me as one of the people he plans to
>>>>>>>>> take some form of unspecified revenge on.   2) Ryan Ramsey published two
>>>>>>>>> articles filled with outright lies and slanderous fictions about me,
>>>>>>>>> Redlich, and others alleging some grand conspiracy . You can find them at
>>>>>>>>> libertarianheathen.com with a search for Frankel. Ramsey and his
>>>>>>>>> associates continually spread this crap on FB and probably elsewhere.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://libertarianheathen.com/?s=frankel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The slanderous lies from Ramsey were tit for tat retaliation – he
>>>>>>>>> said so himself, and offered a reciprocal unpublishing – because I reported
>>>>>>>>> the news that his then buddy Augustus Invictus, one of the Charlottesville
>>>>>>>>> organizers, had been accused of a pattern of domestic violence, kidnapping
>>>>>>>>> and rape by his ex-fiancee. I was simply reporting the news, not taking a
>>>>>>>>> stance, except in the comments; and even there I was careful to separate
>>>>>>>>> what I knew to be fact from my opinion and what others alleged.
>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, I reposted accurate reporting about Ryan Ramsey and his
>>>>>>>>> associates previously published elsewhere. His response was to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) Publish lies about me, Warren Redlich and IPR, linked above
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) Offer to take them down if we took down our own reporting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3) Threaten to sic law enforcement on me for supposedly being a
>>>>>>>>> terrorist and threatening his wife, none of which is even remotely true.
>>>>>>>>> Specifically, he said he had contacted the Florida Department of Law
>>>>>>>>> Enforcement electronic crimes division and was planning to meet with the
>>>>>>>>> FBI and tell them that I am a terrorist (a preposterous lie) and that I
>>>>>>>>> threatened his then pregnant wife (another absurd fiction).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4) His pal Invictus broached the possibility of suing us (but said
>>>>>>>>> he wasn’t doing that, at least at that time)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 5) Invictus later issued a non-specific threat against me and a
>>>>>>>>> few other people saying we will “get what is coming to us.” Among many
>>>>>>>>> other people he and his associates have threatened.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ryan Ramsey’s article is in fact full of attacks, slander and
>>>>>>>>> lies. Looking at just the headline alone: I am not editor in chief at IPR
>>>>>>>>> and in fact there is no such position. I am not a terrorist, and that is a
>>>>>>>>> slanderous claim. Moving beyond the headline I address numerous inaccurate
>>>>>>>>> statements, slanders, libel and downright lies in Ramsey’s article in a
>>>>>>>>> series of comments starting at http://independentpoliticalreport.
>>>>>>>>> com/2017/04/libertarians-united-against-fascism-write-
>>>>>>>>> open-letter-to-lnc-starchild-responds/#comment-1581189 and
>>>>>>>>> continuing over a couple of dozen comments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To take one egregious example, Ramsey continually asserts that I
>>>>>>>>> had something to do with killing a dog. I did not, and while he is not the
>>>>>>>>> first person to spread this lie it is nevertheless a lie and he is not
>>>>>>>>> repeating it as a statement by someone else but rather as something he
>>>>>>>>> knows to be true, unlike the statements about him by others that I have
>>>>>>>>> published. There are many similar falsehoods throughout the article which I
>>>>>>>>> addressed in IPR comments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Others who have been threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and friends
>>>>>>>>> include *Tom Knapp *
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-
>>>>>>>>> perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-
>>>>>>>>> approach/#comment-1636145
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *"**To date, twice when the AI combination pity party / threat
>>>>>>>>> machine got cranked up and I was involved in direct back and forth, I
>>>>>>>>> escalated from Condition Yellow to Condition Orange. This involves, among
>>>>>>>>> other things, making my family aware of a possible threat, ensuring that at
>>>>>>>>> least one person in the household in addition to myself has a loaded
>>>>>>>>> firearm near to hand at all times, and paying special attention to street
>>>>>>>>> traffic in my neighborhood (which is very low traffic so anything unusual
>>>>>>>>> stands out, and I have a nearby neighbor who knows to call if anything
>>>>>>>>> looks suspicious as well). "*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frankel again) The email I was forwarded from Invictus says in
>>>>>>>>> part *"**Stanton, Tesky, Wyllie, Marchetti, and Frankel **are all
>>>>>>>>> directly responsible for that, because the babysitter called the police
>>>>>>>>> based off the bullshit criminal allegations being pushed by those five. It
>>>>>>>>> was the ‘news’ story that caused the babysitter to call the police. Fourth
>>>>>>>>> and final: It never crossed my mind that Joe (Wendt) had anything to do
>>>>>>>>> with that, but if I find out that he was involved with Stanton or Tesky or
>>>>>>>>> Marchetti in pushing those criminal allegations, I will hang him with my
>>>>>>>>> own fucking hands. That entire situation is something so outrageous that I
>>>>>>>>> am not even discussing it. Each and every person who was involved or had
>>>>>>>>> knowledge of it will get what is coming to them.**"*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And in fact, all of the people named, myself included, are among
>>>>>>>>> many others who have reported being threatened by Invictus, Ramsey and
>>>>>>>>> their circle of associates. Ramsey is still neck deep in it even now that
>>>>>>>>> Invictus has become a Republican.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ramsey is allegedly gloating about Stanton's resignation in these
>>>>>>>>> facebook groups, among others:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kekistan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Right Way: No Cucks, Only Kek
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Republic of Kekistan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> @The Deplorables and Basement Dwellers for Trump
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anti-SJW
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anti-SJW Pinochet's Beach Party
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The ex-fiancee of Invictus, Ms. Rice, and her friend Ms. Brown
>>>>>>>>> along with others they knew also reported being threatened and intimidated
>>>>>>>>> by Invictus, Ramsey et al.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/joe-wendt-for-us-
>>>>>>>>> senate-new-lp-of-florida-chair-undermines-libertarian-
>>>>>>>>> principles-in-favor-of-white-nationalists/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Libertarian Party Candidate for U.S. Senate, Joe Wendt, condemns
>>>>>>>>> LPF Chair, Marcos Miralles, for pursuing a policy that promotes white
>>>>>>>>> nationalists within the Libertarian Party of Florida. “Mr. Miralles has
>>>>>>>>> appointed known white nationalists to leadership positions.”*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *...*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *“I have been threatened with physical violence by white
>>>>>>>>> nationalist supporters of Miralles,” said Wendt. “*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <http://goog_1698321734/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-
>>>>>>>>> perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/
>>>>>>>>> see embedded links in original"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *We are losing good members, and the trust of the public, due to
>>>>>>>>> the elevation of leaders in extremist hate groups to our party leadership.
>>>>>>>>> We need a new approach.  Local libertarian-leaning politicians and voters
>>>>>>>>> associate us with far-right extremists.  As of yesterday, my county no
>>>>>>>>> longer has a full slate of candidates for the Florida House.   One of the
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian candidates I drafted will now unfortunately be running NPA.
>>>>>>>>> Yesterday, we also lost our incoming Rules Committee chair.  Previously,
>>>>>>>>> both our former gubernatorial nominee and our senatorial nominee (prior to
>>>>>>>>> me) have resigned their LPF memberships, among countless other Libertarian
>>>>>>>>> activists and volunteers.  A member of my 2016 Senate campaign ended her
>>>>>>>>> participation with the party, because her employer forbids associations
>>>>>>>>> with members of extremist hate groups advocating for violence. A single
>>>>>>>>> friend (who ceased her participation after receiving death threats) has
>>>>>>>>> reported that no fewer than 30 of her acquaintances have withdrawn from
>>>>>>>>> Libertarian Party activism due to risks to themselves and their
>>>>>>>>> reputations.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *During my US Senate campaign, I never expected the situation that
>>>>>>>>> unfolded.  I expected the personal attacks, but I never expected racist
>>>>>>>>> fantasies about my mother, posting of personal information about members of
>>>>>>>>> my family, or the violent threats and sexual harassment targeting my
>>>>>>>>> supporters and members of my campaign.  Last month, after I introduced a
>>>>>>>>> motion (which was killed) to remove Florida’s member of the Libertarian
>>>>>>>>> Party Platform Committee for his racist statements
>>>>>>>>> <http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-racist_is_a_code_word_for_anti-white#.22The_mantra.22>,
>>>>>>>>> I was accused of wanting to kill all white people, in a “white genocide
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory>”
>>>>>>>>> conspiracy theory.  And now today, there have been threats that
>>>>>>>>> the militant <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers_of_Odin> hate
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.theindychannel.com/longform/who-are-the-american-guard-patriotic-nationalists-or-skinheads-in-disguise> group
>>>>>>>>> <https://godsandradicals.org/2017/03/18/heathen-know-nothings-the-american-guard/> the
>>>>>>>>> <http://forward.com/fast-forward/368055/white-supremacists-and-skinheads-join-pro-trump-rally/> American
>>>>>>>>> Guard
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists>may
>>>>>>>>> be waiting for me in the parking lot, or harassing county party meetings.
>>>>>>>>> We must have higher standards for our party leadership!*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Sadly, these are common intimidation tactics among white
>>>>>>>>> nationalists, and there are several other victims throughout Florida.  This
>>>>>>>>> behavior cannot be accepted.  We cannot continue to elevate these people.
>>>>>>>>> Libertarianism stands for maximum freedom for everyone, universally. We
>>>>>>>>> dishonor ourselves and our party by enabling liars with wildly divergent
>>>>>>>>> philosophies, who stand immediately adjacent to neo-Nazis
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_(United_States)>, white
>>>>>>>>> nationalists
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/vinlanders-social-club>, fascists
>>>>>>>>> <https://johnmhudak.com/2017/07/16/rise-of-the-anarcho-statists-part-iii-augustus-sol-invictus-the-unconquerable-sun-god/>,organized
>>>>>>>>> criminal syndicates
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaws_Motorcycle_Club>, and domestic
>>>>>>>>> terrorists <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Front>.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From the comments:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1.     *Starchild <http://www.openborders.info/>**July 22, 2017
>>>>>>>>> at 09:26*
>>>>>>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1634719>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Joe, do you know which individuals were shouting “white power” at
>>>>>>>>> the state convention? Is there video evidence of this? I would hope those
>>>>>>>>> individuals are identified and ostracized, and that other Libertarians will
>>>>>>>>> make clear to them that there is no room for such racism in the LP. That is
>>>>>>>>> not what we are about. If individuals who seek to act in such a manner
>>>>>>>>> leave the party, that is not a loss for us but a gain.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3.     *Joe Wendt**July 22, 2017 at 12:10*
>>>>>>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1634766>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Starchild,*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *The individuals in question are supports of the current LPF
>>>>>>>>> Chair. Although Augustus Invictus, the most prominent of the White
>>>>>>>>> Nationalists, has left the party, unfortunately other less prominent White
>>>>>>>>> Nationalists are not [only -p] remaining active in the LPF, the Chair is
>>>>>>>>> actually giving them positions of authority.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Screenshot of Ramsey threatening to knock Wendt’s teeth out and
>>>>>>>>> saying he may have an “accident”*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/
>>>>>>>>> 07/received_10159060778305274.png
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> paulie <https://www.facebook.com/paulie.cannoli>July 23, 2017 at
>>>>>>>>> 12:04
>>>>>>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1635134>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Again, it’s not about Joe.* Yes Ramsey threatened Joe, but he
>>>>>>>>> also threatened many other people, as has Invictus and their other buddies.
>>>>>>>>> There are numerous sources for that, including me. *Yes, Ramsey
>>>>>>>>> has spread bullshit about me. I think he is still doing it although I
>>>>>>>>> haven’t checked lately. Did he know it to be false or did he just repeat
>>>>>>>>> what other people said? Well, he couldn’t have known it to be true since it
>>>>>>>>> was not true and he did not say “so and so says” he just repeated things as
>>>>>>>>> if they were facts and added new ones such as the bullshit about me being a
>>>>>>>>> terrorist and member of a terrorist groups and the bullshit about me making
>>>>>>>>> threats against his wife. And again, *these are
>>>>>>>>> just examples just as the other examples in Stanton’s article are
>>>>>>>>> only examples.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *The real issue is that there is an ongoing pattern as reported by
>>>>>>>>> many different people of Invictus, Ramsey and their circle of friends
>>>>>>>>> issuing threats, spreading lies .. to and about many different people ..
>>>>>>>>> and maintaining ongoing close associations with multiple white supremacist
>>>>>>>>> groups and violent groups and individuals.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Ramsey says “You were awful meek last night punk. Ill see you
>>>>>>>>> soon though and well see how mouthy you are”* which is clearly
>>>>>>>>> physical intimidation. Joe is talking shit on the internet but Ramsey says
>>>>>>>>> he will not do it in person. Why not? Clearly due to threat of physical
>>>>>>>>> violence. Ramsey follows this up with *“Id be more concerned with
>>>>>>>>> the teeth in your mouth at this point joe. Your dental plan good?” *which
>>>>>>>>> in the context of his earlier statement is not exactly a very veiled
>>>>>>>>> threat. If he was genuinely concerned about Joe slipping and falling due to
>>>>>>>>> being drunk, which is laughable in the context of the conversation, he
>>>>>>>>> would not have made the threat so specific.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the larger context of course is that there have been many
>>>>>>>>> other threats, to many other people, myself as well as this publication
>>>>>>>>> (IPR) included.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe WendtJuly 23, 2017 at 13:55
>>>>>>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1635174>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *To Andy,*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *I have contacted the police. Since it has not progressed beyond
>>>>>>>>> Facebook, they told me to block him and contact them again if he continues
>>>>>>>>> the harassing and threatening behavior. They will be called if he threatens
>>>>>>>>> me again.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> paulie <https://www.facebook.com/paulie.cannoli>July 23, 2017 at
>>>>>>>>> 14:19
>>>>>>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/07/paul-stanton-perhaps-working-with-white-nationalists-is-not-the-best-approach/#comment-1635179>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Also, if all of these if all of these violent threats have been
>>>>>>>>> made, why hasn’t anyone gone to jail? Has anyone even gotten a restraining
>>>>>>>>> order?*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don’t be naive. Threats are not always made in a verifiable,
>>>>>>>>> provable form. I’ve received plenty of threats over the years, including
>>>>>>>>> death threats, and I have never felt the urge to go to the cops about it.
>>>>>>>>> What the fuck are they going to do? While they conduct their half assed
>>>>>>>>> investigation I may get killed or injured or whatever else. Or someone else
>>>>>>>>> around me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And one of the people that has been threatened by Invictus, Ramsey
>>>>>>>>> and friends made a good point. This person said that Ramsey has known
>>>>>>>>> contacts in law enforcement and that there are known ties between many
>>>>>>>>> members of law enforcement and white supremacist groups such as the ones
>>>>>>>>> Ramsey and Invictus have a lot of ties to. So reporting anything to law
>>>>>>>>> enforcement may actually be cutting your own throat if you get threatened
>>>>>>>>> by these assholes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> FL: Augustus Invictus campaigns in front of white nationalist
>>>>>>>>> skinhead music banner
>>>>>>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-augustus-invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinhead-music-banner/>
>>>>>>>>>   http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-augustus-
>>>>>>>>> invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinhead-
>>>>>>>>> music-banner/
>>>>>>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2015/12/fl-augustus-invictus-campaigns-in-front-of-white-nationalist-skinhead-music-banner/>
>>>>>>>>> Note: Ramsey also frequently associates with that same banner to this day.
>>>>>>>>> "Rock Against Communism" may sound like something that libertarians would
>>>>>>>>> agree with, but in reality it's a well-known neo-nazi front organization
>>>>>>>>> that no "former" white supremacist (as Ramsey claims to be) would have any
>>>>>>>>> association with.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *The Rock Against Communism movement originated in the **United
>>>>>>>>> Kingdom <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom>** in late
>>>>>>>>> 1978 with **far right <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right>** activists
>>>>>>>>> associated with the **National Front
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Front>** (NF).**[4]
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-soundtrack-4>** It
>>>>>>>>> was intended to counter the **Rock Against Racism
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Racism>*
>>>>>>>>> * organisation.**[4]
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-soundtrack-4>** The
>>>>>>>>> first RAC concert was in **Leeds
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds>**, **England
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England>** in 1978, featuring the **Nazi
>>>>>>>>> punk <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_punk>** bands The
>>>>>>>>> Dentists and The Ventz.**[5]
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-5>** RAC
>>>>>>>>> held one concert in 1979 and another in spring 1983, which was headlined
>>>>>>>>> by **Skrewdriver <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver>**,
>>>>>>>>> a **white power rock
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_power_rock>** band led by **Ian
>>>>>>>>> Stuart Donaldson <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stuart_Donaldson>**.
>>>>>>>>> After that, RAC concerts were held more often. They were often headlined by
>>>>>>>>> Skrewdriver and featured other white power bands, such as **Skullhead
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skullhead>** and **No Remorse
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Remorse_(band)>**. In the
>>>>>>>>> mid-1980s, summer concerts were often held at the **Suffolk
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk>** home of **Edgar Griffin
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Griffin>**, a **Conservative
>>>>>>>>> Party <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)>*
>>>>>>>>> * activist**[6]
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-6>** and
>>>>>>>>> father of **Nick Griffin
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin>**, an NF organiser
>>>>>>>>> who later became the national chair of the **British National
>>>>>>>>> Party <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party>**.
>>>>>>>>> By the late 1980s, the RAC name had given way to the White Noise Club
>>>>>>>>> (another NF-based group), and later **Blood and Honour
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Honour>**, which was set
>>>>>>>>> up by **Donaldson <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaldson>** when
>>>>>>>>> they fell out with the NF leadership.**[4]
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Against_Communism#cite_note-soundtrack-4>*
>>>>>>>>> * As **hardcore punk
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_punk>** music became more
>>>>>>>>> popular in the 1990s and 2000s, many white power bands took on a more
>>>>>>>>> hardcore-influenced sound.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Note that Ryan Ramsey continues to proudly wave the "Rock against
>>>>>>>>> communism" banner.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton: ‘LP conventions, avoid alt-right / white
>>>>>>>>> supremacist event speakers’
>>>>>>>>> <http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/chuck-moulton-lp-conventions-avoid-alt-right-white-supremacist-event-speakers/>
>>>>>>>>>  http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/chuck-moulton-lp-
>>>>>>>>> conventions-avoid-alt-right-white-supremacist-event-speakers/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> More background:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/alexandria-brown-
>>>>>>>>> response-to-ryan-ramsey-and-timeline-of-events/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/update-on-rape-
>>>>>>>>> assault-kidnapping-and-witness-tampering-allegations-
>>>>>>>>> against-augustus-invictus/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/update-on-
>>>>>>>>> augustus-invictus-criminal-allegations-and-retraction-of-
>>>>>>>>> censure-from-florida-lp-possible-disaffiliation-by-lnc-floated/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/david-colborne-
>>>>>>>>> augustus-sol-invictus-is-not-welcome-in-my-state/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/knppster-were-
>>>>>>>>> going-to-shut-it-down/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/04/knapp-replace-lp-
>>>>>>>>> of-florida-exec-comm-and-bylaws/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/paul-stanton-lp-
>>>>>>>>> florida-chair-marcos-miralles-must-resign/ :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Marcos Miralles began his race for Chair of the LPF with the
>>>>>>>>> support of Augustus Sol Invictus
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/augustus-sol-invictus-austin-gillespie>**and
>>>>>>>>> Ryan Ramsey, both leaders in white supremacist groups, including the
>>>>>>>>> American Guard
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.adl.org/blog/behind-the-american-guard-hardcore-white-supremacists>**.
>>>>>>>>>  (The American Guard was one of the groups present in Charlottesville last
>>>>>>>>> weekend.
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/indianapolis/indiana-american-guard-among-protestors-at-charlottesville-unite-the-right-rally>**)
>>>>>>>>>  Invictus was also a featured speaker at the Charlottesville white
>>>>>>>>> supremacist rally.
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-augustus-invictus-charlottesville-20170814-story.html>**  The
>>>>>>>>> support has not been one-sided.  Last year, Marcos Miralles provided a town
>>>>>>>>> hall for Invictus
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article97524342.html>** (as
>>>>>>>>> part of a campaign to stir up drama during the primary), the pictures from
>>>>>>>>> which are still used by the Miami Herald to associate our party with
>>>>>>>>> Invictus <http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article167083427.html>**.
>>>>>>>>> Additionally, he proudly displayed Ryan Ramsey’s endorsement on his website
>>>>>>>>> and appointed Ryan Ramsey <https://docs.lpf.org/meeting/july-16th-2017/>** to
>>>>>>>>> our Legislative Review Committee.  There is no place for white supremacy in
>>>>>>>>> the Libertarian Party of Florida.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Thankfully, there was a recent press release
>>>>>>>>> <https://lpf.org/2017/08/libertarian-party-florida-first-strongest-voice-hate-filled-groups/> condemning
>>>>>>>>> the events in Charlottesville.  Unfortunately, Marcos Miralles has refused
>>>>>>>>> to condemn the white supremacists within our party, or recant his previous
>>>>>>>>> support.  Instead, he insists that he will “work with everybody” and has
>>>>>>>>> dismissed worries about white supremacists using our party to support their
>>>>>>>>> platform as “non sense,” despite the support of the previously-mentioned
>>>>>>>>> Libertarians, and despite the Libertarian Party of Florida’s representative
>>>>>>>>> to the Libertarian Party platform committee, Frank Caprio.  Caprio
>>>>>>>>> regularly makes very racist comments, including quotes white
>>>>>>>>> supremacist Bob Whitaker
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/06/07/bob-whitaker-author-racist-mantra-white-genocide-has-died>.
>>>>>>>>> I physically cringed when I read Marcos write: “The Libertarian Party of
>>>>>>>>> Florida will forever remain the safest home for all of those that fight for
>>>>>>>>> civil rights.”  As one of the Libertarian victims of violent threats and
>>>>>>>>> harassment (a Muslim mother of biracial children) stated, “The Libertarian
>>>>>>>>> Party was not a safe haven for me and many others like me.  It should be,
>>>>>>>>> by principle. […] But that’s not the present day reality.”  Sadly, she
>>>>>>>>> ended her participation with the party after concerns with the safety of
>>>>>>>>> her family. When she reached out to Miralles, she was ignored and blocked
>>>>>>>>> on social media.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/knapp-dickey-
>>>>>>>>> cover-2017-libertarian-party-of-florida-convention/ http://
>>>>>>>>> independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/05/knapp-dickey-
>>>>>>>>> cover-2017-libertarian-party-of-florida-convention/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *There were people yelling white power. Larry Sharpe went on an
>>>>>>>>> alt-right vlog by Ryan Ramsey called the Mad American Network. That group
>>>>>>>>> was with Invictus in Harrisburg, PA and at least one member, Dave Martel,
>>>>>>>>> was seen sieg heiling there. Invictus chased someone out of a courtesy
>>>>>>>>> suite with threats of violence. Invictus was then pushing Paul Stanton
>>>>>>>>> trying to pick a fight. There was loud applause of his speech where he
>>>>>>>>> hijacked our convention for five minutes, then just bragged about it…*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *…our gubernatorial candidate denied Stanton a mic for a
>>>>>>>>> privileged motion, so that he could procedurally kill a pro-immigration
>>>>>>>>> platform plank without letting it be read.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Thomas Knapp lost an ad hoc election to the LP platform committee
>>>>>>>>> to a “constitutional conservative” who once told me, “anti-racist is code
>>>>>>>>> for anti-white,” Frank Caprio. He’s from the LP of Orange County (Orlando
>>>>>>>>> area, same as Invictus -p).*
>>>>>>>>> *Oh, and by the way – no pretend antifa protesters showed up, of
>>>>>>>>> course.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/09/paul-frankel-why-
>>>>>>>>> libertarians-need-to-denounce-the-alt-right-and-white-
>>>>>>>>> nationalists-and-dont-need-to-worry-about-libertarian-
>>>>>>>>> socialists-and-antifa/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalreport.com/2017/08/lsla-2017-
>>>>>>>>> physically-removed-so-to-speak-making-the-lp-
>>>>>>>>> inhospitable-to-the-alt-right-and-other-nazis/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that's more than enough for now, but there's plenty more.
>>>>>>>>> Feel free to email or call 205-534-1622 <(205)%20534-1622> to
>>>>>>>>> discuss, and forward wherever or whenever you wish.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Paul Frankel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
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> ...
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