[Lnc-business] P.S. - Re: Email Ballot 2018-03: Censure of Arvin Vohra
Starchild
starchild at lp.org
Wed Jan 31 03:11:03 EST 2018
P.S. – Please note the message was sent before the midnight Pacific Time voting deadline; the time stamp on my email software is incorrect.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
On Jan 31, 2018, at 12:06 AM, Starchild wrote:
> After some difficult deliberation, I vote no on this motion. No one
> has yet been able to identify anything the vice-chair said that is
> clearly un-libertarian, and while I continue to think that some of his
> outreach efforts have shown poor judgement, and have obviously upset
> many people, I cannot endorse the misguided set of priorities that
> would be implicitly endorsed by censuring someone in a case like this
> while failing to censure other Libertarian leaders such as William Weld
> last year who have said clearly un-libertarian things from a much more
> visible platform.
>
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> [1]RealReform at earthlink.net
> (415) 625-FREE
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2018, at 12:01 AM, Starchild wrote:
>
> A statement describing a group of people as "fair game" sounds like
> describing them as animals to be hunted, rather than individual human
> beings with rights. I would reject that characterization.
> "Pervert" is a loaded term commonly applied to demonize anyone whose
> sexual habits are not considered acceptable. It has been applied to
> LGBTQ people and others, and I don't think it is appropriate in what
> should be a rational discussion about human development and the
> capacity to consent. I haven't heard that Arvin ever used the term
> (hopefully not).
> In the case of Roy Moore, he has been credibly accused of sexual
> assault (see
> [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore_sexual_misconduct_allegation
> s, in particular the case of Beverly Young Nelson). He is also an
> authoritarian-leaning politician who wants to force his morality on
> others at the point of government guns. I don't think we owe him an
> apology.
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> [3]RealReform at earthlink.net
> (415) 625-FREE
>
>
> On Jan 30, 2018, at 10:12 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> And again if 14 year old girls are typically fair game- I ask again
> -
>
> does anyone defending that statement here have the fortitude to
> move a
>
> resolution to apologize to Roy Moore?
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 11:10 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
>
> <[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>
> I am using words the way people heard them and that was the
> implication
>
> of what he said. He would rather even someone he thinks is a
> pervert
>
> (they do exist - and they do troll after kids) as long as they
> have a
>
> job to impregnate a 14 year old than another kid. Because welfare.
>
> Yes - when put in the stark cold reality of the implications of
> what he
>
> said it IS awful. And that�s what our members heard. Many of them
>
> just as �pure� as Arvin.
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 10:29 PM Starchild <[2]starchild at lp.org>
> wrote:
>
> Caryn Ann,
>
> Mary Ruwart's comment is clearly weighing in on our
> debate
>
> on this motion, and her stance seems plain enough. It's hard to
>
> imagine she'd object to us seeing her remarks in a timely manner,
> so
>
> accusing Arvin of "using people" by publishing them here seems
>
> uncalled for. As does the use of demonizing epithets like
> "pervert".
>
> I frankly find that language offensive, and hope we can keep the
>
> discussion more civil.
>
> Love & Liberty,
>
> ((( starchild )))
>
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>
> [3]RealReform at earthlink.net
>
> (415) 625-FREE
>
> On Jan 30, 2018, at 8:52 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> And of course that was not the point.
>
> I would love to speak with Dr. Ruwart on this, the author of
>
> "The
>
> Compassion of Libertarianism" about how we need less empathy and
>
> ya
>
> know, if a 14 year old gets pregnant, might as well be a pervert
>
> with a
>
> job rather than a broke kid. Because welfare.
>
> This is called using people.
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 8:56 PM, Arvin Vohra
>
> <[1][4]votevohra at gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> Forward from Dr. Mary Ruwart:
>
> �If such motions had circulated in the LNC in the early
>
> days of
>
> our
>
> Party, no LNC member would have spoken out against the War
>
> on
>
> Drugs,
>
> claimed that gays had rights, or pointed out that taxation
>
> was
>
> theft.
>
> All of these positions were considered inflammatory and
>
> offensive
>
> to
>
> the majority of people outside the LP for most of the
>
> 1980s,
>
> regardless
>
> of how carefully these positions were presented. Now, they
>
> are
>
> seriously embraced or considered across the political
>
> spectrum
>
> precisely because we spoke out. It�s impossible to affect
>
> serious
>
> change without offending some listeners. How can anyone
>
> believe
>
> that
>
> the LP supports free speech when its own members are
>
> punished for
>
> engaging in it?� ----Mary J. Ruwart
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 3:45 AM,
>
> <[1][2][5]david.demarest at lp.org>
>
> wrote:
>
> I change my vote to "YES" on the censure motion and ask
>
> others to
>
> vote 'YES' and request the cancellation of the electronic
>
> meeting
>
> to
>
> consider suspension.
>
> Arvin has audaciously and courageously challenged us to
>
> stop
>
> speaking in tongues about our Libertarian principles. He
>
> has
>
> correctly identified the fact that the opposition does a
>
> better
>
> job
>
> of describing our policy and positions than we do. We need
>
> to step
>
> up to the plate with equal courage and get us back on track
>
> toward
>
> our shared goal of freedom.
>
> It is time to end this game of Russian roulette that Ms.
>
> Mattson
>
> has
>
> aptly described as a circular firing squad, this
>
> political-correctness nightmare of timidity before voters
>
> and
>
> pandemic get-elected-itis at the expense of not only our
>
> principles
>
> but any semblance of rationality. We have done enough
>
> damage to
>
> the
>
> Libertarian cause. Let us cease this endless cycle of
>
> self-destruction before we plunge ourselves into a
>
> death-spiral of
>
> reworded censure motions.
>
> Good grief - enough already!
>
> ~David Pratt Demarest
>
> On 2018-01-29 22:11, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> I hope my statement that the censure will fail is
>
> disproven. I am
>
> disappointed in the yes votes changing to no. This
>
> censure is
>
> woefully
>
> inadequate, but it is not as woefully inadequate as
>
> nothing at
>
> all.
>
> What we heard from Arvin is a defense of Trump tactics.
>
> That
>
> is
>
> not
>
> the LP I work for, recruit for, and donate for.
>
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Patrick McKnight
>
> <[1][2][3][6]patrick.mcknight at lp.org> wrote:
>
> I vote yes. However I feel censure is
>
> insufficient and
>
> look
>
> forward to
>
> the electronic meeting.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick McKnight
>
> Region 8 Rep
>
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 10:21 PM, Tim Hagan
>
> <[1][2][3][4][7]tim.hagan at lp.org>
>
> wrote:
>
> I vote yes.
>
> ---
>
> Tim Hagan
>
> Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
>
> On 2018-01-20 19:03, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>
> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>
> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by
>
> January 30,
>
> 2018 at
>
> 11:59:59pm Pacific time.
>
> Co-Sponsors: Hayes, Hewitt, Demarest, Hagan
>
> Motion: to censure LNC Vice Chair Arvin Vohra
>
> for
>
> repeated
>
> public
>
> comments which have presented libertarian ideas
>
> in an
>
> inflammatory
>
> and
>
> sometimes offensive manner not conducive to
>
> Libertarian
>
> leaders and
>
> candidates for public office winning hearts and
>
> minds
>
> for
>
> those
>
> ideas.
>
> -Alicia
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Lnc-business mailing list
>
> [2][3][4][5][8]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> [3][4][5][6][9]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
>
> /mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[5][6][7][10]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 2. mailto:[6][7][8][11]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 3. [7][8][9][12]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
>
> ilman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[9][10][13]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 2. mailto:[10][11][14]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 3. mailto:[11][12][15]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 4. [12][13][16]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
>
> mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 5. mailto:[13][14][17]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 6. mailto:[14][15][18]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 7. [15][16][19]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
>
> mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> --
>
> Arvin Vohra
>
> [16][17][20]www.VoteVohra.com
>
> [17][18][21]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> [19](301) 320-3634
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[20][22]david.demarest at lp.org
>
> 2. mailto:[21][23]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 3. mailto:[22][24]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 4. mailto:[23][25]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 5.
>
> [24][26]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 6. mailto:[25][27]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 7. mailto:[26][28]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 8.
>
> [27][29]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 9. mailto:[28][30]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 10. mailto:[29][31]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 11. mailto:[30][32]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 12.
>
> [31][33]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 13. mailto:[32][34]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 14. mailto:[33][35]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 15.
>
> [34][36]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 16. [35][37]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>
> 17. mailto:[36][38]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[39]votevohra at gmail.com
>
> 2. mailto:[40]david.demarest at lp.org
>
> 3. mailto:[41]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 4. mailto:[42]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 5. mailto:[43]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 6. [44]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
>
> 7. mailto:[45]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 8. mailto:[46]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 9. [47]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
>
> 10. mailto:[48]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 11. mailto:[49]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 12. mailto:[50]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 13. [51]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 14. mailto:[52]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 15. mailto:[53]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 16. [54]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 17. [55]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>
> 18. mailto:[56]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> 19. tel:(301) 320-3634
>
> 20. mailto:[57]david.demarest at lp.org
>
> 21. mailto:[58]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 22. mailto:[59]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 23. mailto:[60]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 24. [61]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 25. mailto:[62]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 26. mailto:[63]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 27. [64]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 28. mailto:[65]patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 29. mailto:[66]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 30. mailto:[67]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 31. [68]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 32. mailto:[69]tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 33. mailto:[70]Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 34. [71]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 35. [72]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>
> 36. mailto:[73]VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> References
>
> 1. [4]mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>
> 2. [5]mailto:starchild at lp.org
>
> 3. [6]mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
>
> 4. [7]mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
>
> 5. [8]mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
>
> 6. [9]mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 7. [10]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 8. [11]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 9. [12]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
>
> 10. [13]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 11. [14]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 12. [15]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
>
> 13. [16]mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 14. [17]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 15. [18]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 16. [19]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
>
> 17. [20]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 18. [21]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 19. [22]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
>
> 20. [23]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>
> 21. [24]mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> 22. [25]mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
>
> 23. [26]mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 24. [27]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 25. [28]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 26. [29]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 27. [30]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 28. [31]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 29. [32]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 30. [33]mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 31. [34]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 32. [35]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 33. [36]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 34. [37]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 35. [38]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 36. [39]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 37. [40]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>
> 38. [41]mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> 39. [42]mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
>
> 40. [43]mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
>
> 41. [44]mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 42. [45]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 43. [46]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 44. [47]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
>
> 45. [48]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 46. [49]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 47. [50]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
>
> 48. [51]mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 49. [52]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 50. [53]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 51. [54]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 52. [55]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 53. [56]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 54. [57]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 55. [58]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>
> 56. [59]mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> 57. [60]mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
>
> 58. [61]mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 59. [62]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 60. [63]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 61. [64]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 62. [65]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 63. [66]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 64. [67]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 65. [68]mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
>
> 66. [69]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 67. [70]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 68. [71]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 69. [72]mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
>
> 70. [73]mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> 71. [74]http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
>
> 72. [75]http://www.VoteVohra.com/
>
> 73. [76]mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
> 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore_sexual_misconduct_allegations
> 3. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
> 4. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 5. mailto:starchild at lp.org
> 6. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
> 7. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
> 8. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
> 9. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 10. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 11. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 12. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
> 13. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 14. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 15. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
> 16. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 17. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 18. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 19. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
> 20. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 21. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 22. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/
> 23. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 24. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
> 25. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
> 26. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 27. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 28. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 29. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 30. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 31. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 32. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 33. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 34. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 35. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 36. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 37. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 38. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 39. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 40. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 41. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
> 42. mailto:votevohra at gmail.com
> 43. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
> 44. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 45. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 46. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 47. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin
> 48. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 49. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 50. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/ma
> 51. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 52. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 53. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 54. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 55. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 56. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 57. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 58. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 59. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
> 60. mailto:david.demarest at lp.org
> 61. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 62. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 63. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 64. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 65. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 66. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 67. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 68. mailto:patrick.mcknight at lp.org
> 69. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 70. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 71. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 72. mailto:tim.hagan at lp.org
> 73. mailto:Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 74. http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business
> 75. http://www.VoteVohra.com/
> 76. mailto:VoteVohra at gmail.com
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