[Lnc-business] draft minutes of 02/02/18 LNC meeting

Sat Feb 10 15:33:52 EST 2018

I looked at the header of Starchild's e-mail from 31 January, and copied 
it below. The header shows lpmail.lp.org received the e-mail from 
ca.comcast.net at 31 Jan 2018 02:56:02 -0500 (EST). It appears to be 
then sent to lnc-business at 31 Jan 2018 03:10:14 -0500 (EST). The 
header shows he mailed his vote 3 minutes and 57 seconds before the 
11:59:59 pm PST deadline.

Having to investigate e-mails' time can be prevented by members not 
waiting until the last couple of minutes to cast their vote.

[24.5.86.49])
  (Authenticated sender: starchild at lp.org)
  by lpmail.lp.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BEF4236036B
  for <lnc-business at hq.lp.org>; Wed, 31 Jan 2018 02:56:02 -0500 (EST)
 From: Starchild <starchild at lp.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5-60405565
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 00:06:40 -0800
In-Reply-To: <59EFC450-5DF8-4541-A7C0-55C220C9E2E7 at lp.org>
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
References: 
<CA+Jr9xG-YeQQhyqvyzmpvigbnfawM4coVRJaJKzo72cctaJ1uQ at mail.gmail.com>
  <4e29c9ed82a7314a15f0d599e14ccdc6 at lp.org>
  <CABMBB6XODBtU__9L4QSs0A+Hp_eZ4xRCpmWL_0TXdmH6P_di3w at mail.gmail.com>
  <CAL4U=_qS+8JWHK9PoJ0aCWHJveMTHPr+G8hLcrReO58RTHq1Qw at mail.gmail.com>
  <1a03e89f9bb66fde0cf3188295da58e2 at lp.org>
  <CAD7JHu0UpxEqWcw-L3LjbTMEbmVkkWMgfS+U8xyqwiVVVcxF9w at mail.gmail.com>
  <CAL4U=_pNoSnMMd+GuC6F6Za3v+sZcHsJxFPsC=B81OW5PprFmw at mail.gmail.com>
  <E2A31FA5-ABCA-4F2F-8BA6-074BD27F3EC3 at lp.org>
  <CAL4U=_rTRbO=4ZHAMdOsR2jmn7MF_4PbAREEeNbgt+P6ZUwufQ at mail.gmail.com>
  <CAL4U=_r3SLBFKLzyjxbtXc3XojquCbre-ndhhv1FkXz+jqwc6g at mail.gmail.com>
  <59EFC450-5DF8-4541-A7C0-55C220C9E2E7 at lp.org>
Message-Id: <4D191E96-E717-4D61-95CC-65171FF1D76C at lp.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-03: Censure of Arvin Vohra
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---
Tim Hagan
Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee

On 2018-02-10 03:27, Starchild wrote:
> Alicia,
> 
> 	In the previous cases from last year and the year before there's no
> dispute that I voted after the voting period had expired (I'm pretty
> sure I acknowledged as much at the time), but in this case I'm
> confident I voted in a timely manner, and since my vote will not
> affect the outcome one way or the other I see little reason to be
> inflexible about adding a note, at a minimum, if not actually count
> the vote. Unfortunately I'm not enough of a techie to know how to
> prove to you that my vote was cast before midnight here, beyond
> whatever evidence may be contained in the email itself, but I honestly
> believe that to be the case.
> 
> 	The reason I consider it important to include my comment about the
> motion to adjourn in the minutes is that if it is not included, moving
> to allow public comment when I'd previously moved to adjourn could
> look blatantly hypocritical, and I don't think it's fair to leave
> readers with that impression when I noted my error in the chat window,
> and verbally, before later moving to allow public comment (which
> shouldn't even need a motion, imho, as it should always be part of our
> meetings!).
> 
> Love & Liberty,
> 
>                                     ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                          RealReform at earthlink.net
>                                   (415) 625-FREE
>                                     @StarchildSF
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2018, at 11:21 PM, Alicia Mattson wrote:
> 
>>   Starchild,
>>   Several LNC members commented during the meeting, with each 
>> believing
>>   that their comments were important enough to say out loud.  I didn't
>>   record their general debate comments in the minutes, either.
>>   Regarding the late vote on the email ballot:
>>   On the 2017-14 email ballot when another member voted too late, I 
>> did
>>   not add a note to the minutes.
>>   On the 2017-13 email ballot when another member voted too late, I 
>> did
>>   not add a note to the minutes.
>>   On the 2017-08 email ballot when you voted 3 hours too late, I did 
>> not
>>   add a note to the minutes.
>>   On the 2016-09 email ballot when you voted 3 minutes, 52 seconds too
>>   late, I did not add a note to the minutes.
>>   I don't see a reason to treat this situation differently than I have
>>   consistently handled it throughout this term.
>>   We've given a very generous interpretation to the ending time for 
>> email
>>   ballots, and the only time stamp that I have is the one on the email
>>   server.  If, however, you have some other evidence that your vote 
>> was
>>   actually cast before the deadline (it can happen), simply provide it 
>> so
>>   the LNC and I can consider counting your vote.
>>   -Alicia
>> 
>>   On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 2:46 PM, Starchild <[1]starchild at lp.org> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>             Thanks, Alicia. I would like it noted in the minutes that
>>     when I moved to allow public comment, I stated that my previous
>>     motion to adjourn had been inappropriate, because we had not yet 
>> had
>>     public comment. Will you make this change?
>>             Also I did not see a response from you regarding my 
>> request
>>     that it be noted in the minutes that I cast a vote against the 
>> email
>>     censure ballot, but you found the vote came after the clock on the
>>     LP server indicated it was several minutes after the voting 
>> deadline
>>     and therefore it was not counted (although as I noted, it was not
>>     late according to the time as recorded by my cell phone).
>>     Love & Liberty,
>>                                          ((( starchild )))
>>     At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>                               [2]RealReform at earthlink.net
>>                                        (415) 625-FREE
>> 
>>   On Feb 4, 2018, at 1:49 PM, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>>>  Attached are the first draft minutes from the February 2, 2018 LNC
>>>  electronic meeting.
>>>  Please note that comments on the minutes are due by February 19.
>>>  -Alicia
>> 
>>> <2018_02_02 LNC Minutes - v1.pdf>
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>   1. mailto:starchild at lp.org
>>   2. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net