[Lnc-business] draft minutes of 02/02/18 LNC meeting

Sat Feb 10 17:24:25 EST 2018

Tim, Starchild's just-in-time vote was partly my fault. Starchild called me,
and, as we often do, we got into a lengthy discussion of some important
ideological point that escapes me because it was approaching 2:00 AM Omaha
time. It is rare that I can outtalk Starchild, but I was holding my own and
kept him on the phone too long despite a couple comments that he had other
matters to take care of. :-) 

~David Pratt Demarest

-----Original Message-----
From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Tim
Hagan
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 2:34 PM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] draft minutes of 02/02/18 LNC meeting

I looked at the header of Starchild's e-mail from 31 January, and copied it
below. The header shows lpmail.lp.org received the e-mail from
ca.comcast.net at 31 Jan 2018 02:56:02 -0500 (EST). It appears to be then
sent to lnc-business at 31 Jan 2018 03:10:14 -0500 (EST). The header shows
he mailed his vote 3 minutes and 57 seconds before the
11:59:59 pm PST deadline.

Having to investigate e-mails' time can be prevented by members not waiting
until the last couple of minutes to cast their vote.

[24.5.86.49])
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 From: Starchild <starchild at lp.org>
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---
Tim Hagan
Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee

On 2018-02-10 03:27, Starchild wrote:
> Alicia,
> 
> 	In the previous cases from last year and the year before there's no 
> dispute that I voted after the voting period had expired (I'm pretty 
> sure I acknowledged as much at the time), but in this case I'm 
> confident I voted in a timely manner, and since my vote will not 
> affect the outcome one way or the other I see little reason to be 
> inflexible about adding a note, at a minimum, if not actually count 
> the vote. Unfortunately I'm not enough of a techie to know how to 
> prove to you that my vote was cast before midnight here, beyond 
> whatever evidence may be contained in the email itself, but I honestly 
> believe that to be the case.
> 
> 	The reason I consider it important to include my comment about the 
> motion to adjourn in the minutes is that if it is not included, moving 
> to allow public comment when I'd previously moved to adjourn could 
> look blatantly hypocritical, and I don't think it's fair to leave 
> readers with that impression when I noted my error in the chat window, 
> and verbally, before later moving to allow public comment (which 
> shouldn't even need a motion, imho, as it should always be part of our 
> meetings!).
> 
> Love & Liberty,
> 
>                                     ((( starchild ))) At-Large 
> Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>                          RealReform at earthlink.net
>                                   (415) 625-FREE
>                                     @StarchildSF
> 
> 
> On Feb 5, 2018, at 11:21 PM, Alicia Mattson wrote:
> 
>>   Starchild,
>>   Several LNC members commented during the meeting, with each 
>> believing
>>   that their comments were important enough to say out loud.  I didn't
>>   record their general debate comments in the minutes, either.
>>   Regarding the late vote on the email ballot:
>>   On the 2017-14 email ballot when another member voted too late, I 
>> did
>>   not add a note to the minutes.
>>   On the 2017-13 email ballot when another member voted too late, I 
>> did
>>   not add a note to the minutes.
>>   On the 2017-08 email ballot when you voted 3 hours too late, I did 
>> not
>>   add a note to the minutes.
>>   On the 2016-09 email ballot when you voted 3 minutes, 52 seconds too
>>   late, I did not add a note to the minutes.
>>   I don't see a reason to treat this situation differently than I have
>>   consistently handled it throughout this term.
>>   We've given a very generous interpretation to the ending time for 
>> email
>>   ballots, and the only time stamp that I have is the one on the email
>>   server.  If, however, you have some other evidence that your vote 
>> was
>>   actually cast before the deadline (it can happen), simply provide 
>> it so
>>   the LNC and I can consider counting your vote.
>>   -Alicia
>> 
>>   On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 2:46 PM, Starchild <[1]starchild at lp.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>             Thanks, Alicia. I would like it noted in the minutes that
>>     when I moved to allow public comment, I stated that my previous
>>     motion to adjourn had been inappropriate, because we had not yet 
>> had
>>     public comment. Will you make this change?
>>             Also I did not see a response from you regarding my 
>> request
>>     that it be noted in the minutes that I cast a vote against the 
>> email
>>     censure ballot, but you found the vote came after the clock on the
>>     LP server indicated it was several minutes after the voting 
>> deadline
>>     and therefore it was not counted (although as I noted, it was not
>>     late according to the time as recorded by my cell phone).
>>     Love & Liberty,
>>                                          ((( starchild )))
>>     At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>                               [2]RealReform at earthlink.net
>>                                        (415) 625-FREE
>> 
>>   On Feb 4, 2018, at 1:49 PM, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>>>  Attached are the first draft minutes from the February 2, 2018 LNC  
>>> electronic meeting.
>>>  Please note that comments on the minutes are due by February 19.
>>>  -Alicia
>> 
>>> <2018_02_02 LNC Minutes - v1.pdf>
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>   1. mailto:starchild at lp.org
>>   2. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net