[Lnc-business] Concerned member
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Sat Apr 7 11:58:20 EDT 2018
I would caution against making this about any particular caucus. What it
is about is tolerating or giving succor to anyone who would be openly
advocating these things within the Party. The people change. Caucuses
change. This has been something that was a "do not cross" line since day
one of the Party.
I will say what I have been saying. We invited ethno-nationalists to GTFO
(which was a proud moment for our Party) yet we are absolutely SILENT to
the very real issues of far leftist and violent revolutionary entryism.
Why?
And we are ignoring other things. Yes, yes affiliates are autonomous and
we cannot tell them what to do, but we CAN use our bully pulpit to make it
clear that this is not what the LP is about. We have an intimidation
problem in this Party and nothing is done. I have mentioned over and over
the physical intimidation (legally assault) that happened to me last
convention to pretty much utter silence. Why? There are cases of woman
leaders being intimidated out of the Party (details can be given in
private).
This needs to stop.
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 9:10 AM, <erin.adams at lp.org> wrote:
> I am going to mirror Starchild in saying "If the Audacious Caucus is okay
> with this, I don't want to be associated with them. I don't want anybody
> using me as a human shield. "
> Ditto
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2018-04-07 03:14, Starchild wrote:
>
>> Well put, both of you (Steven and Sam).
>>
>> Jason, I appreciate and share your concern. If James Wood wrote
>> that
>> stuff, I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but I don't appreciate
>> it.
>>
>> The idea that Tim McVeigh was right to attack the federal
>> government, but that he should have done proper reconnaissance so as
>> to have been aware of the kids in the daycare center cynically
>> believed to have been used by the Feds as deliberate human shields is
>> not one I'm going to argue with on moral grounds.
>>
>> However I will point out that given how governments have often
>> treated those they label as "terrorists" or their associates, anyone
>> who expresses an affinity, especially an organizational affinity, with
>> terrorists; openly calls for responding to government violence with
>> civilian violence; or even engages in actual violence such as Peter
>> Hendrickson did – the NY Times magazine article you link
>> (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html) is
>> quite an interesting read – while actively associating themselves with
>> the institutionally non-violent Libertarian Party and its followers,
>> is in effect using US as their human shields.
>>
>> A simpler and clearer example of this would be attending a
>> peaceful
>> anti-police-abuse demonstration, and while marching, running up to
>> nearby police lines yelling at and threatening to punch a cop, and
>> then running back into the midst of the peaceful demonstrators and
>> rejoining the march. It exposes people and organizations to collateral
>> damage they did not sign up for, including risk of direct physical
>> harm.
>>
>> If the Audacious Caucus is okay with this, I don't want to be
>> associated with them. I don't want anybody using me as a human shield.
>>
>> Deciding to take up arms against tyranny or actively work with
>> those
>> who do, and assume all the risks attendant to that choice, is a very
>> personal decision for each individual to make. If and when I ever make
>> that choice, I want it to be my choice alone – and if I make it, it
>> will be to join FREEDOM FIGHTERS, not terrorists, "domestic" or
>> otherwise.
>>
>> Love & Liberty,
>>
>> ((( starchild )))
>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>> (415) 625-FREE
>> @StarchildSF
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Sam Goldstein wrote:
>>
>> Jason,
>>>
>>> I will also add to Mr. Nekhalia's comments below that Mr. Wood is not a
>>> current member of the national Libertarian Party. You might contact the
>>> MILP to discuss your concerns with them since they do have a history of
>>> taking action against rogue members.
>>>
>>> In Liberty,
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Sam Goldstein
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> 317-850-0726 Cell
>>>
>>> On 2018-04-06 13:03, steven.nekhaila at lp.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Jason,
>>>> Thank you for bringing this to our attention, this is not something
>>>> the Libertarian National Committee can specifically address other than
>>>> coaching the Libertarian Party of Michigan if they seek to take action
>>>> against this member. If this individual decides to make credible
>>>> threats, I would trust those who observe such threats to make the
>>>> proper the call on action, whether its reporting it to the Michigan
>>>> Libertarian Party or appropriate bodies as they see fit, there is
>>>> nothing we can do as National. I do not wish to be dismissive of your
>>>> concerns, but being associated with the Libertarian Party is to be
>>>> associated with hundreds of thousands of others who call themselves
>>>> libertarians and Libertarian Party members. Republicans, Democrats,
>>>> and Libertarians are all capable of being "audacious" and saying
>>>> something outrageous, even acting out, one person is not, however,
>>>> representative of the whole. Your association with the party is the
>>>> water that dilutes the pollution, I do not see the pollution as the
>>>> reason to leave. You will find there is pollution everywhere you go.
>>>> As for a shadow rising of the LNC, I am not overly concerned, while
>>>> these small groups may be loud, they have no power unless they are
>>>> elected by the delegates.
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Steven Nekhaila
>>>> Region 2 Representative Alternate
>>>> On 2018-04-06 11:35 AM, Someone Else wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>> I became a foundation member of the National Party on 6/19/2017 and I
>>>>> registered with my State party shortly before the 2016 election. I am
>>>>> currently a precinct committeeman.
>>>>> As someone who is considering whether or not to step up my involvement
>>>>> or to go back to being a non-voting Independent, I would like to
>>>>> express a concern that I have regarding something I recently observed.
>>>>> I hope this isn't simply dismissed as "Facebook Drama" or just the
>>>>> Audacious Caucus doing their thing, because it goes beyond that.
>>>>> I have attached a series of screenshots of comments made by Jeff Wood
>>>>> of the Audacious Caucus and the Libertarian Party of Michigan in which
>>>>> he cites the 1990 Scarborough Tax Day Mail Bombing as a source of
>>>>> inspiration as well as defending the actions of Timothy McVeigh and
>>>>> offers a "blanket invitation to domestic terrorists and violent drug
>>>>> cartels" to join the Libertarian Party. He also boldly states "I
>>>>> fully intend to shoot police and soldiers with automatic weapons at
>>>>> some point in my lifetime".
>>>>> I shouldn't have to explain why this is a concern. I realize the
>>>>> whole Audacious thing is about being "so outrageous they can't be
>>>>> ignored", but he is openly advocating for domestic terrorists to join
>>>>> the party. Between this and certain other members of the danger
>>>>> caucus who claim to be actively recruiting Antifa, I am considering
>>>>> withdrawing any future support for this Party as I cannot in good
>>>>> conscience be associated with such things. My wife is already
>>>>> reluctant to join and needless to say this has not helped me convince
>>>>> her.
>>>>> I am not going to presume to suggest what, if anything, the LNC should
>>>>> do about this matter, but I feel it is necessary to bring it to your
>>>>> attention. I will say that if the so-called "Shadow LNC Rising" aka
>>>>> Audacious Caucus and their affiliated groups ever gain a significant
>>>>> foothold in the LP beyond their little echo chamber (which certainly
>>>>> appears to be their goal) I will leave and never look back.
>>>>> Thank you for your time. Please view and consider the attachments.
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Jason Gillam, MCLP PCM
>>>>>
>>>>
>
--
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
I would caution against making this about any particular caucus. What
it is about is tolerating or giving succor to anyone who would be
openly advocating these things within the Party. The people change.
Caucuses change. This has been something that was a "do not cross"
line since day one of the Party.
I will say what I have been saying. We invited ethno-nationalists to
GTFO (which was a proud moment for our Party) yet we are absolutely
SILENT to the very real issues of far leftist and violent revolutionary
entryism.
Why?
And we are ignoring other things. Yes, yes affiliates are autonomous
and we cannot tell them what to do, but we CAN use our bully pulpit to
make it clear that this is not what the LP is about. We have an
intimidation problem in this Party and nothing is done. I have
mentioned over and over the physical intimidation (legally assault)
that happened to me last convention to pretty much utter silence.
Why? There are cases of woman leaders being intimidated out of the
Party (details can be given in private).
This needs to stop.
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 9:10 AM, <[1]erin.adams at lp.org> wrote:
I am going to mirror Starchild in saying "If the Audacious Caucus is
okay with this, I don't want to be associated with them. I don't
want anybody using me as a human shield. "
Ditto
On 2018-04-07 03:14, Starchild wrote:
Well put, both of you (Steven and Sam).
Jason, I appreciate and share your concern. If James Wood
wrote that
stuff, I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but I don't
appreciate
it.
The idea that Tim McVeigh was right to attack the federal
government, but that he should have done proper reconnaissance so as
to have been aware of the kids in the daycare center cynically
believed to have been used by the Feds as deliberate human shields
is
not one I'm going to argue with on moral grounds.
However I will point out that given how governments have
often
treated those they label as "terrorists" or their associates, anyone
who expresses an affinity, especially an organizational affinity,
with
terrorists; openly calls for responding to government violence with
civilian violence; or even engages in actual violence such as Peter
Hendrickson did – the NY Times magazine article you link
([2]https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html)
is
quite an interesting read – while actively associating themselves
with
the institutionally non-violent Libertarian Party and its followers,
is in effect using US as their human shields.
A simpler and clearer example of this would be attending a
peaceful
anti-police-abuse demonstration, and while marching, running up to
nearby police lines yelling at and threatening to punch a cop, and
then running back into the midst of the peaceful demonstrators and
rejoining the march. It exposes people and organizations to
collateral
damage they did not sign up for, including risk of direct physical
harm.
If the Audacious Caucus is okay with this, I don't want to
be
associated with them. I don't want anybody using me as a human
shield.
Deciding to take up arms against tyranny or actively work
with those
who do, and assume all the risks attendant to that choice, is a very
personal decision for each individual to make. If and when I ever
make
that choice, I want it to be my choice alone – and if I make it, it
will be to join FREEDOM FIGHTERS, not terrorists, "domestic" or
otherwise.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
[3]RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
@StarchildSF
On Apr 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Sam Goldstein wrote:
Jason,
I will also add to Mr. Nekhalia's comments below that Mr. Wood is
not a current member of the national Libertarian Party. You might
contact the MILP to discuss your concerns with them since they do
have a history of taking action against rogue members.
In Liberty,
---
Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
317-850-0726 Cell
On 2018-04-06 13:03, [4]steven.nekhaila at lp.org wrote:
Hello Jason,
Thank you for bringing this to our attention, this is not something
the Libertarian National Committee can specifically address other
than
coaching the Libertarian Party of Michigan if they seek to take
action
against this member. If this individual decides to make credible
threats, I would trust those who observe such threats to make the
proper the call on action, whether its reporting it to the Michigan
Libertarian Party or appropriate bodies as they see fit, there is
nothing we can do as National. I do not wish to be dismissive of
your
concerns, but being associated with the Libertarian Party is to be
associated with hundreds of thousands of others who call themselves
libertarians and Libertarian Party members. Republicans, Democrats,
and Libertarians are all capable of being "audacious" and saying
something outrageous, even acting out, one person is not, however,
representative of the whole. Your association with the party is the
water that dilutes the pollution, I do not see the pollution as the
reason to leave. You will find there is pollution everywhere you go.
As for a shadow rising of the LNC, I am not overly concerned, while
these small groups may be loud, they have no power unless they are
elected by the delegates.
In Liberty,
Steven Nekhaila
Region 2 Representative Alternate
On 2018-04-06 11:35 AM, Someone Else wrote:
Greetings,
I became a foundation member of the National Party on 6/19/2017 and
I
registered with my State party shortly before the 2016 election. I
am
currently a precinct committeeman.
As someone who is considering whether or not to step up my
involvement
or to go back to being a non-voting Independent, I would like to
express a concern that I have regarding something I recently
observed.
I hope this isn't simply dismissed as "Facebook Drama" or just the
Audacious Caucus doing their thing, because it goes beyond that.
I have attached a series of screenshots of comments made by Jeff
Wood
of the Audacious Caucus and the Libertarian Party of Michigan in
which
he cites the 1990 Scarborough Tax Day Mail Bombing as a source of
inspiration as well as defending the actions of Timothy McVeigh and
offers a "blanket invitation to domestic terrorists and violent drug
cartels" to join the Libertarian Party. He also boldly states "I
fully intend to shoot police and soldiers with automatic weapons at
some point in my lifetime".
I shouldn't have to explain why this is a concern. I realize the
whole Audacious thing is about being "so outrageous they can't be
ignored", but he is openly advocating for domestic terrorists to
join
the party. Between this and certain other members of the danger
caucus who claim to be actively recruiting Antifa, I am considering
withdrawing any future support for this Party as I cannot in good
conscience be associated with such things. My wife is already
reluctant to join and needless to say this has not helped me
convince
her.
I am not going to presume to suggest what, if anything, the LNC
should
do about this matter, but I feel it is necessary to bring it to
your
attention. I will say that if the so-called "Shadow LNC Rising" aka
Audacious Caucus and their affiliated groups ever gain a significant
foothold in the LP beyond their little echo chamber (which certainly
appears to be their goal) I will leave and never look back.
Thank you for your time. Please view and consider the attachments.
In Liberty,
Jason Gillam, MCLP PCM
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
- [5]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, [6]Libertarian Party of Colorado
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:erin.adams at lp.org
2. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html
3. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
4. mailto:steven.nekhaila at lp.org
5. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
6. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
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