[Lnc-business] Concerned member
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Sat Apr 7 14:38:13 EDT 2018
Dr. Lark I will get in touch with you as well. Not all the intimidation is
physical (but when there are comments like those shared by the concerned
member the unspoken subtext is there) - I was physically intimidated at
convention and violence almost broke out when members of the CO delegation
thought the guy was going to need to be taken down.
I don’t mind sharing publicly any details of my experience (I’m also the
subject of a sustained sexual harassment campaign - not by any official -
just another Party member who apparently has been harassing people for
decades). The other ladies I don’t have consent to share publicly.
I’m pretty tough- bullies make me more firm in my resolve but I imagine we
are silently losing members who are frightened.
There are different concerns and perspectives of men and women. I don’t
think as a Party we do anywhere near enough to recognize that for many,
women’s perception of safety can be very different from men.
These screenshots go far beyond this particular member to a wider cultural
issue.
And it’s not that we can directly “do” anything - freedom means the freedom
to be awful people - but we can make us inhospitable to such. We couldn’t
“do” anything to the far right entryists but we did draw a line in the sand.
Though something should have been done about the convention incident. It
was legal assault.
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 12:34 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
wrote:
> Sure I thing Bill- I’m at the Louisiana Convention this weekend but will
> when I can.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 11:39 AM William Redpath <william.redpath at lp.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Caryn Ann: I am unaware of what you are asserting below. I would like
>> to know more. When you can, and if you like, please call me at
>> 703-864-2132. Please leave a voicemail if I don't pick up. Thanks,
>> Bill Redpath
>>
>> On 2018-04-07 11:58, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>> > I would caution against making this about any particular caucus. What
>> > it is about is tolerating or giving succor to anyone who would be
>> > openly advocating these things within the Party. The people change.
>> > Caucuses change. This has been something that was a "do not cross"
>> > line since day one of the Party.
>> > I will say what I have been saying. We invited ethno-nationalists
>> > to
>> > GTFO (which was a proud moment for our Party) yet we are absolutely
>> > SILENT to the very real issues of far leftist and violent
>> > revolutionary
>> > entryism.
>> > Why?
>> > And we are ignoring other things. Yes, yes affiliates are
>> > autonomous
>> > and we cannot tell them what to do, but we CAN use our bully pulpit
>> > to
>> > make it clear that this is not what the LP is about. We have an
>> > intimidation problem in this Party and nothing is done. I have
>> > mentioned over and over the physical intimidation (legally assault)
>> > that happened to me last convention to pretty much utter silence.
>> > Why? There are cases of woman leaders being intimidated out of the
>> > Party (details can be given in private).
>> > This needs to stop.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 9:10 AM, <[1]erin.adams at lp.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I am going to mirror Starchild in saying "If the Audacious Caucus
>> > is
>> > okay with this, I don't want to be associated with them. I don't
>> > want anybody using me as a human shield. "
>> > Ditto
>> >
>> > On 2018-04-07 03:14, Starchild wrote:
>> >
>> > Well put, both of you (Steven and Sam).
>> > Jason, I appreciate and share your concern. If James Wood
>> > wrote that
>> > stuff, I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but I don't
>> > appreciate
>> > it.
>> > The idea that Tim McVeigh was right to attack the federal
>> > government, but that he should have done proper reconnaissance so
>> > as
>> > to have been aware of the kids in the daycare center cynically
>> > believed to have been used by the Feds as deliberate human shields
>> > is
>> > not one I'm going to argue with on moral grounds.
>> > However I will point out that given how governments have
>> > often
>> > treated those they label as "terrorists" or their associates,
>> > anyone
>> > who expresses an affinity, especially an organizational affinity,
>> > with
>> > terrorists; openly calls for responding to government violence
>> > with
>> > civilian violence; or even engages in actual violence such as
>> > Peter
>> > Hendrickson did – the NY Times magazine article you link
>> > ([2]https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html)
>> > is
>> > quite an interesting read – while actively associating themselves
>> > with
>> > the institutionally non-violent Libertarian Party and its
>> > followers,
>> > is in effect using US as their human shields.
>> > A simpler and clearer example of this would be attending a
>> > peaceful
>> > anti-police-abuse demonstration, and while marching, running up to
>> > nearby police lines yelling at and threatening to punch a cop, and
>> > then running back into the midst of the peaceful demonstrators and
>> > rejoining the march. It exposes people and organizations to
>> > collateral
>> > damage they did not sign up for, including risk of direct physical
>> > harm.
>> > If the Audacious Caucus is okay with this, I don't want to
>> > be
>> > associated with them. I don't want anybody using me as a human
>> > shield.
>> > Deciding to take up arms against tyranny or actively work
>> > with those
>> > who do, and assume all the risks attendant to that choice, is a
>> > very
>> > personal decision for each individual to make. If and when I ever
>> > make
>> > that choice, I want it to be my choice alone – and if I make it,
>> > it
>> > will be to join FREEDOM FIGHTERS, not terrorists, "domestic" or
>> > otherwise.
>> > Love & Liberty,
>> > ((( starchild )))
>> > At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>> > [3]RealReform at earthlink.net
>> > (415) 625-FREE
>> > @StarchildSF
>> > On Apr 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Sam Goldstein wrote:
>> >
>> > Jason,
>> > I will also add to Mr. Nekhalia's comments below that Mr. Wood is
>> > not a current member of the national Libertarian Party. You might
>> > contact the MILP to discuss your concerns with them since they do
>> > have a history of taking action against rogue members.
>> > In Liberty,
>> > ---
>> > Sam Goldstein
>> > Libertarian National Committee
>> > 317-850-0726 Cell
>> > On 2018-04-06 13:03, [4]steven.nekhaila at lp.org wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello Jason,
>> > Thank you for bringing this to our attention, this is not
>> > something
>> > the Libertarian National Committee can specifically address other
>> > than
>> > coaching the Libertarian Party of Michigan if they seek to take
>> > action
>> > against this member. If this individual decides to make credible
>> > threats, I would trust those who observe such threats to make the
>> > proper the call on action, whether its reporting it to the
>> > Michigan
>> > Libertarian Party or appropriate bodies as they see fit, there is
>> > nothing we can do as National. I do not wish to be dismissive of
>> > your
>> > concerns, but being associated with the Libertarian Party is to be
>> > associated with hundreds of thousands of others who call
>> > themselves
>> > libertarians and Libertarian Party members. Republicans,
>> > Democrats,
>> > and Libertarians are all capable of being "audacious" and saying
>> > something outrageous, even acting out, one person is not, however,
>> > representative of the whole. Your association with the party is
>> > the
>> > water that dilutes the pollution, I do not see the pollution as
>> > the
>> > reason to leave. You will find there is pollution everywhere you
>> > go.
>> > As for a shadow rising of the LNC, I am not overly concerned,
>> > while
>> > these small groups may be loud, they have no power unless they are
>> > elected by the delegates.
>> > In Liberty,
>> > Steven Nekhaila
>> > Region 2 Representative Alternate
>> > On 2018-04-06 11:35 AM, Someone Else wrote:
>> >
>> > Greetings,
>> > I became a foundation member of the National Party on 6/19/2017
>> > and
>> > I
>> > registered with my State party shortly before the 2016 election. I
>> > am
>> > currently a precinct committeeman.
>> > As someone who is considering whether or not to step up my
>> > involvement
>> > or to go back to being a non-voting Independent, I would like to
>> > express a concern that I have regarding something I recently
>> > observed.
>> > I hope this isn't simply dismissed as "Facebook Drama" or just the
>> > Audacious Caucus doing their thing, because it goes beyond that.
>> > I have attached a series of screenshots of comments made by Jeff
>> > Wood
>> > of the Audacious Caucus and the Libertarian Party of Michigan in
>> > which
>> > he cites the 1990 Scarborough Tax Day Mail Bombing as a source of
>> > inspiration as well as defending the actions of Timothy McVeigh
>> > and
>> > offers a "blanket invitation to domestic terrorists and violent
>> > drug
>> > cartels" to join the Libertarian Party. He also boldly states "I
>> > fully intend to shoot police and soldiers with automatic weapons
>> > at
>> > some point in my lifetime".
>> > I shouldn't have to explain why this is a concern. I realize the
>> > whole Audacious thing is about being "so outrageous they can't be
>> > ignored", but he is openly advocating for domestic terrorists to
>> > join
>> > the party. Between this and certain other members of the danger
>> > caucus who claim to be actively recruiting Antifa, I am
>> > considering
>> > withdrawing any future support for this Party as I cannot in good
>> > conscience be associated with such things. My wife is already
>> > reluctant to join and needless to say this has not helped me
>> > convince
>> > her.
>> > I am not going to presume to suggest what, if anything, the LNC
>> > should
>> > do about this matter, but I feel it is necessary to bring it to
>> > your
>> > attention. I will say that if the so-called "Shadow LNC Rising"
>> > aka
>> > Audacious Caucus and their affiliated groups ever gain a
>> > significant
>> > foothold in the LP beyond their little echo chamber (which
>> > certainly
>> > appears to be their goal) I will leave and never look back.
>> > Thank you for your time. Please view and consider the
>> > attachments.
>> > In Liberty,
>> > Jason Gillam, MCLP PCM
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
>> > In Liberty,
>> > Caryn Ann Harlos
>> > Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> > Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> > Washington)
>> > - [5]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>> > Communications Director, [6]Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> > We defend your rights
>> > And oppose the use of force
>> > Taxation is theft
>> >
>> > References
>> >
>> > 1. mailto:erin.adams at lp.org
>> > 2. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html
>> > 3. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
>> > 4. mailto:steven.nekhaila at lp.org
>> > 5. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> > 6. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>
> --
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> *We defend your rights*
> *And oppose the use of force*
> *Taxation is theft*
>
--
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
Dr. Lark I will get in touch with you as well. Not all the
intimidation is physical (but when there are comments like those shared
by the concerned member the unspoken subtext is there) - I was
physically intimidated at convention and violence almost broke out when
members of the CO delegation thought the guy was going to need to be
taken down.
I don’t mind sharing publicly any details of my experience (I’m also
the subject of a sustained sexual harassment campaign - not by any
official - just another Party member who apparently has been harassing
people for decades). The other ladies I don’t have consent to share
publicly.
I’m pretty tough- bullies make me more firm in my resolve but I imagine
we are silently losing members who are frightened.
There are different concerns and perspectives of men and women. I
don’t think as a Party we do anywhere near enough to recognize that for
many, women’s perception of safety can be very different from men.
These screenshots go far beyond this particular member to a wider
cultural issue.
And it’s not that we can directly “do” anything - freedom means the
freedom to be awful people - but we can make us inhospitable to such.
We couldn’t “do” anything to the far right entryists but we did draw a
line in the sand.
Though something should have been done about the convention incident.
It was legal assault.
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 12:34 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
<[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
Sure I thing Bill- I’m at the Louisiana Convention this weekend but
will when I can.
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 11:39 AM William Redpath
<[2]william.redpath at lp.org> wrote:
Caryn Ann: I am unaware of what you are asserting below. I would
like
to know more. When you can, and if you like, please call me at
703-864-2132. Please leave a voicemail if I don't pick up. Thanks,
Bill Redpath
On 2018-04-07 11:58, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> I would caution against making this about any particular caucus.
What
> it is about is tolerating or giving succor to anyone who would
be
> openly advocating these things within the Party. The people
change.
> Caucuses change. This has been something that was a "do not
cross"
> line since day one of the Party.
> I will say what I have been saying. We invited
ethno-nationalists
> to
> GTFO (which was a proud moment for our Party) yet we are
absolutely
> SILENT to the very real issues of far leftist and violent
> revolutionary
> entryism.
> Why?
> And we are ignoring other things. Yes, yes affiliates are
> autonomous
> and we cannot tell them what to do, but we CAN use our bully
pulpit
> to
> make it clear that this is not what the LP is about. We have
an
> intimidation problem in this Party and nothing is done. I have
> mentioned over and over the physical intimidation (legally
assault)
> that happened to me last convention to pretty much utter
silence.
> Why? There are cases of woman leaders being intimidated out of
the
> Party (details can be given in private).
> This needs to stop.
>
> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 9:10 AM, <[1][3]erin.adams at lp.org>
wrote:
>
> I am going to mirror Starchild in saying "If the Audacious
Caucus
> is
> okay with this, I don't want to be associated with them. I
don't
> want anybody using me as a human shield. "
> Ditto
>
> On 2018-04-07 03:14, Starchild wrote:
>
> Well put, both of you (Steven and Sam).
> Jason, I appreciate and share your concern. If James
Wood
> wrote that
> stuff, I don't know what he thinks he's doing, but I don't
> appreciate
> it.
> The idea that Tim McVeigh was right to attack the
federal
> government, but that he should have done proper
reconnaissance so
> as
> to have been aware of the kids in the daycare center
cynically
> believed to have been used by the Feds as deliberate human
shields
> is
> not one I'm going to argue with on moral grounds.
> However I will point out that given how governments
have
> often
> treated those they label as "terrorists" or their associates,
> anyone
> who expresses an affinity, especially an organizational
affinity,
> with
> terrorists; openly calls for responding to government
violence
> with
> civilian violence; or even engages in actual violence such as
> Peter
> Hendrickson did – the NY Times magazine article you link
>
([2][4]https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html
)
> is
> quite an interesting read – while actively associating
themselves
> with
> the institutionally non-violent Libertarian Party and its
> followers,
> is in effect using US as their human shields.
> A simpler and clearer example of this would be
attending a
> peaceful
> anti-police-abuse demonstration, and while marching, running
up to
> nearby police lines yelling at and threatening to punch a
cop, and
> then running back into the midst of the peaceful
demonstrators and
> rejoining the march. It exposes people and organizations to
> collateral
> damage they did not sign up for, including risk of direct
physical
> harm.
> If the Audacious Caucus is okay with this, I don't
want to
> be
> associated with them. I don't want anybody using me as a
human
> shield.
> Deciding to take up arms against tyranny or actively
work
> with those
> who do, and assume all the risks attendant to that choice, is
a
> very
> personal decision for each individual to make. If and when I
ever
> make
> that choice, I want it to be my choice alone – and if I make
it,
> it
> will be to join FREEDOM FIGHTERS, not terrorists, "domestic"
or
> otherwise.
> Love & Liberty,
> ((( starchild )))
> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
> [3][5]RealReform at earthlink.net
> (415) 625-FREE
> @StarchildSF
> On Apr 6, 2018, at 10:55 AM, Sam Goldstein wrote:
>
> Jason,
> I will also add to Mr. Nekhalia's comments below that Mr.
Wood is
> not a current member of the national Libertarian Party. You
might
> contact the MILP to discuss your concerns with them since
they do
> have a history of taking action against rogue members.
> In Liberty,
> ---
> Sam Goldstein
> Libertarian National Committee
> 317-850-0726 Cell
> On 2018-04-06 13:03, [4][6]steven.nekhaila at lp.org wrote:
>
> Hello Jason,
> Thank you for bringing this to our attention, this is not
> something
> the Libertarian National Committee can specifically address
other
> than
> coaching the Libertarian Party of Michigan if they seek to
take
> action
> against this member. If this individual decides to make
credible
> threats, I would trust those who observe such threats to make
the
> proper the call on action, whether its reporting it to the
> Michigan
> Libertarian Party or appropriate bodies as they see fit,
there is
> nothing we can do as National. I do not wish to be dismissive
of
> your
> concerns, but being associated with the Libertarian Party is
to be
> associated with hundreds of thousands of others who call
> themselves
> libertarians and Libertarian Party members. Republicans,
> Democrats,
> and Libertarians are all capable of being "audacious" and
saying
> something outrageous, even acting out, one person is not,
however,
> representative of the whole. Your association with the party
is
> the
> water that dilutes the pollution, I do not see the pollution
as
> the
> reason to leave. You will find there is pollution everywhere
you
> go.
> As for a shadow rising of the LNC, I am not overly concerned,
> while
> these small groups may be loud, they have no power unless
they are
> elected by the delegates.
> In Liberty,
> Steven Nekhaila
> Region 2 Representative Alternate
> On 2018-04-06 11:35 AM, Someone Else wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> I became a foundation member of the National Party on
6/19/2017
> and
> I
> registered with my State party shortly before the 2016
election. I
> am
> currently a precinct committeeman.
> As someone who is considering whether or not to step up my
> involvement
> or to go back to being a non-voting Independent, I would
like to
> express a concern that I have regarding something I recently
> observed.
> I hope this isn't simply dismissed as "Facebook Drama" or
just the
> Audacious Caucus doing their thing, because it goes beyond
that.
> I have attached a series of screenshots of comments made by
Jeff
> Wood
> of the Audacious Caucus and the Libertarian Party of Michigan
in
> which
> he cites the 1990 Scarborough Tax Day Mail Bombing as a
source of
> inspiration as well as defending the actions of Timothy
McVeigh
> and
> offers a "blanket invitation to domestic terrorists and
violent
> drug
> cartels" to join the Libertarian Party. He also boldly
states "I
> fully intend to shoot police and soldiers with automatic
weapons
> at
> some point in my lifetime".
> I shouldn't have to explain why this is a concern. I realize
the
> whole Audacious thing is about being "so outrageous they
can't be
> ignored", but he is openly advocating for domestic terrorists
to
> join
> the party. Between this and certain other members of the
danger
> caucus who claim to be actively recruiting Antifa, I am
> considering
> withdrawing any future support for this Party as I cannot in
good
> conscience be associated with such things. My wife is already
> reluctant to join and needless to say this has not helped me
> convince
> her.
> I am not going to presume to suggest what, if anything, the
LNC
> should
> do about this matter, but I feel it is necessary to bring it
to
> your
> attention. I will say that if the so-called "Shadow LNC
Rising"
> aka
> Audacious Caucus and their affiliated groups ever gain a
> significant
> foothold in the LP beyond their little echo chamber (which
> certainly
> appears to be their goal) I will leave and never look back.
> Thank you for your time. Please view and consider the
> attachments.
> In Liberty,
> Jason Gillam, MCLP PCM
>
> --
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
(Alaska,
> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
> Washington)
> - [5]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, [6]Libertarian Party of Colorado
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[7]erin.adams at lp.org
> 2.
[8]https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html
> 3. mailto:[9]RealReform at earthlink.net
> 4. mailto:[10]steven.nekhaila at lp.org
> 5. mailto:[11]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 6. [12]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
- [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, [14]Libertarian Party of Colorado
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
- [15]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, [16]Libertarian Party of Colorado
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
2. mailto:william.redpath at lp.org
3. mailto:erin.adams at lp.org
4. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html
5. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
6. mailto:steven.nekhaila at lp.org
7. mailto:erin.adams at lp.org
8. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/03/29/magazine/29taxes-t.html
9. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
10. mailto:steven.nekhaila at lp.org
11. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
12. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
13. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
14. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
15. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
16. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
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