[Lnc-business] Point of order regarding abstention and alternate voting

[Whitney Bilyeu]

I also believe that an expressed abstention holds the place of a vote,
which would mean an alternate cannot vote on that matter. It is essentially
NOTA when the two choices are Yes or No...

On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 5:43 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> PS: to clarify I’m only appealing a portion of the ruling.  I do not
> contest that abstentions should not count in calculating the percentage- on
> my tally sheet I used that number 13 which is total cast and 10 is 3/4.
>
> I appeal the part that rules that an express abstention paves the way for
> the alternate vote to count.  It would lead to the absurd result that a
> regional who responds “present” would be contacted as absent.
>
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 4:19 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I appeal from the ruling of the Chair.
> >
> > In email votes how is this handled?
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 4:11 PM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear All,
> >>
> >> Not voting is not a vote. Everything else is commentary.
> >>
> >> Under Robert’s Rules, an abstention, express or otherwise, is not a
> vote.
> >> They may be noted for clarity, such as accurately reflecting that a
> member
> >> was present for the purposes of quorum, or that the member didn’t miss
> the
> >> vote, but they do not change the vote count and do not count for the
> >> calculations of 2/3 or 3/4 unless there is a particular rule that
> refers to
> >> the number of members in the committee or number of members in
> attendance.
> >> By default, vote thresholds are of members “present and voting.”
> >>
> >> A regional alternate does not get a vote except in the absence of a
> >> regional representative’s vote, by stepping away from the table at an
> >> in-person meeting or by abstaining in a mail ballot.
> >>
> >> In absence of a specific rule in the bylaws or policy manual about
> >> express abstentions (as opposed to custom or past practice), Mr.
> >> O’Donnell’s abstention does not count as a vote for either the purpose
> of
> >> how many votes are required to meet the 3/4 threshold or for preventing
> Mr.
> >> Lyons’ vote from being counted as regional alternate and tallied.
> >>
> >> Yours truly,
> >> Nick
> >>
> >> P.S. If you would like to read more about the abstention issue, which is
> >> very commonly misunderstood, the following links may be of interest:
> >> http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#6
> >>
> >>
> https://www.lawoforderblog.com/2018/03/4-things-most-people-get-wrong-about-abstentions/
> >> https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/Voting-Abstention
> >
> > --
> >
> > *  In Liberty,*
> >
> > *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> Caryn.Ann.
> > Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
> > *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> > facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >
> > =========================================================================
> > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
> All
> > Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
> > Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
> > Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income
> Tax
> > * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> Services
> > * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
> > Eliminate Regulation *
> >
> > *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <
> http://www.lp.org/>*
> > =========================================================================
> >
> --
>
> *  In Liberty,*
>
> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>
> =========================================================================
> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax
> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services
> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
> Eliminate Regulation *
>
> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/
> >*
> =========================================================================
>


-- 
*Whitney Bilyeu*
Libertarian National Committee
Region 7 Representative
281.433.4966